No, Remark, not true. Your recollection is very whitewashed compared to JD2D's.

That is why extra verbalization from you on conflicts is not safe right now.

Here is JD2D's verbatim comment:

[color:#000099][/color]

Oh dear.

Let's break this down.




Your wife isn't you and isn't going to want the same things you do, so I would toss out that concept right away. She has her own perspective and you need to look for it and listen closely to it. Obviously giving her (a woman) the same things you (a man) want is never going to work.... It's the main reason most marriages fail.

Maybe I should have phrased it differently. What do you think SHE might like to see in your future marriage?


So I' going to dismiss your answers as applying to her and look at how they apply to you.



This is effect, not cause. Your actions will automatically create this response in her. It still doesn't really tell me what you find particularly special and appealing about her individually and why you want to be married to her.

I don't think you realised that the complaints you gave her were so recent and so close together. It's telling that I couldn't get a compliment from you here - you're looking too closely at the problems.




These are great goals for marriage. But what is it specifically about JD2D and marriage to JD2D that you wouldn't like to lose?

I don't mean the result of getting time with her - why do you want time with her? What's so great about her?

She's absolutely crying out for some validation from you here. Make her feel important!

Couldn't 'someone' be anyone?

Maybe we cross-posted, but really, there is no discussion needed about whether or not he should be making complaints right now.

He should not be complaining at this point.

Arguing about "how" he should complain when he shouldn't be complaining is a needless distraction which and confusing to a binary thinker.

Sunny- Many of us have been in her shoes. But not as many have gone through the program of recovery.

I started a thread at one point, called "It's not what you say but how you say it." or something like that. Maybe you can post this tip there? It would be a helpful addition to that thread.

Can you keep helping Remark learn how to personally admire and pursue his wife? (That would be awesome!!)

And Sunny-

I am not saying that Marcos' suggestion wasn't good.

I am not saying that your suggestions are not good.

What I will say is that "when" it's time for Remark to complain, it would be best if DAY tells him the response that works for HER.

Just because we have walked in Her shoes does not make us HER. We can validate her all day long, but it is NOT a substitution for her. Remark needs to listen up & learn about DAY- Her likes, dislikes, pet peeves, interests and adjust to HER preferences. Essentially, what works for HER. Right now, he needs to learn to STOP his impulse to whine and complain to her.

He is here because this is not working for him or for her.

Yes, OK, I know. And that list makes you all think I despise her. That is NOT how I feel.

Thanks,
Remark

I'm not sure where the idea comes from that Remark shouldn't complain. Even when a wife is not on board with Marriage Builders the husband should be honest with her about the effect her behavior has on him:

"I liked it when you ..." (admiration)

"I'd like it if you ..."
"It bothers me when you ..."

And then he should move on. She doesn't want to hear it and will try to start a fight with him and he should move on quickly.

I'm at a loss as well as to why Remark is being told to stop complaining. I have never heard Dr. Harley tell anybody to stop the complaints, even for a man who is trying to win his wife back.

Markos complained A LOT when he was trying to win me back. It's part of the program.

Not complaining = unconditional love, which is not Marriage Builders.

"It bothers me when you ..." Is the standard Marriage Builders complaint. It doesn't take a special skill set to use.

And then you move on.

Other than his explanations lovebust and exasperate her.

The email exchange about why his family is uncomfortable with her illustrated that he does not have the skill set to explain things concisely at this time. His lack of precision in his explanations is driving his wife nuts.

I suggest that what Markos advised the other poster is a better place for him to start. "That bothers me." (silence).

Nobody is proposing that he love bust her. Complaints are a love bank withdrawal, but not a love buster.


The skillset is easy in one sense: "it bothers me when you ..."


Rather than silence, I would encourage moving on to something positive. If she won't put up with that and insists on fighting, then rather than silence I'd go be alone for a short time.

Well of course he shouldn't lovebust her. However, "It bothers me when ..." is not a lovebuster. She won't like it, but it's part of the program.

When he says "It bothers me when ..." followed by a DJ, the problem is not the "It bothers me when ..." The problem is the DJ.

You are making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be.

WE do not think you despise her. We think you are very undisciplined in your impulsive thoughts and too quick to verbalize them.

She does feel disdained (understandably), and you need to set the record straight by showing her with your words and behaviors how much you care about her, and use better thought/word discipline in the future. You want this to become a distant, forgotten memory replaced by many beautiful memories affirming how much you treasure her.

I encountered a tall challenge of training my mother for a deadline driven job with intensive use of various software applications. However, she had no experience and I literally had to show her how to turn a computer on. She was a 63 year old farm wife; had never had a job using computers at all. When we were in deadlines and my instinct was to lash out (or scream) when I had to describe something for the sixth time I maintained a VERY strict filter in light of all of the years of frustration and effort she had to put forward for ME when she was changing my diapers and raising me....how ungrateful for me to get frustrated because it was taking a few extra explanations. She ended up being the most fantastic person you could ever get for that job (I KNEW she would be after she was trained) and highly experience administrators at our headquarters always HATED to hear my mom was going on vacation because they dreaded trying to fill in for her. I was able to keep my filter intact for the 6 months of training and we worked together as the BEST of friends thereafter.

Remark, you need to give yourself a very strict filter too. "Would this make my wife feel special?" "Would saying this build up my wife's love for me?"

Well, seeing these angles being dissected is hopefully benefiting Remark. I think it has been a good discussion.


Didn't Quit summarized Remark's communication LBs well on a post on JD2D's page:

Marcos and Prisca-


AND





I understand that complaining is part of the program. My personal experience has been slightly different from yours.

You've now heard of someone who was asked to temporarily stop complaining. My husband was not able to tolerate complaints without his lovebank being emptied completely. I won't go into the details, but yes, the temporary solution was for me to stop complaining to give time for my husband's love bank to fill up. And we were actually having UA time.

The reason I thought that it might help for Remark to stop complaining temporarily is to focus on following POJA and making deposits. Day has an Empty lovebank. Not looking good for letting Remark fill it at this point. Thinking that her bank can't handle even small withdrawals right now.

Having said that, I can see how you would consider this a deviation from the program. I am happy to withdraw that suggestion, and defer to you guys.

Probably not, really. Discussing the nuances of the word "when" when he needs to be focusing on lovebusters is distracting.

I can see how that worked in your situation. But, it is a deviation from the program, and being as such, Remark should only stop complaining if he is advised to by Dr. Harley.

Markos and I also deviated from the program a time or two. But, like you, it was with the guidance of Dr. Harley. We would also never recommend the deviations we took to another couple -- the risk is too great that it will fail for them.

Remark-

I hope that you can learn to follow the advice above, when sharing your honest feelings with your wife.