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Originally Posted by lightwalker
Indie and BrainHurts
I'm waiting for call backs from two different agencies who do polys and I have gotten my thoughts more organized. I have written up my concerns and a couple of specific questions to Email the Harleys.
Fantastic lightwalker. Let us know when you hear back.


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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A quick question. If someone wanted to pursue polys, where exactly do you look to find one. I have no clue. Seriously, are they listed in the phone book? Are they done by certain types of agencies? If so, which ones? I have a certain mental image when it comes to these types of tests, and wouldn't have the foggiest as to where to look to see about getting this service.

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Originally Posted by lightwalker
Originally Posted by unwritten
Do you fear the poly because you don't plan to leave no matter what the outcome? Which means the outcome, if bad, could just add to your worry and resentment, not take away from it?

Unwritten,

Good question. Yes, that could be very true, and if I did stay under those circumstances I would find it very hard to respect myself. To be honest, I don't really know what I would do. I would want to leave, but it is almost unthinkable at this point. Other than my child and her family, I have no one but my H. and his family. That is it. He is my family, everyone else is gone.

And there is the resentment. Back a number of posts ago, a few posters said they were shocked by my attitude when I had said I didn't "give a sh**t. Well, I'm shocked I said that too because it is not true. I do care and have always cared. I think it was the resentment poking up its ugly head when I said that.

I'm angry at myself too. I grew up in a generation of women with one foot in the 1950's and one foot in the 60's/70's. There began to be some choices about careers and family. I chose the more traditional road. I didn't put a career first as some did because my H seemed to require a lot of attention. I worried a career for me would lead to a D, and it probably would have. I worked as much or as little as our life demanded. In doing that I had to put my life in his hands so to speak. I was very dependent financially. I always second guessed myself about allowing myself to be so vulnerable while other women were now making careers for themselves. In other ways , I am quite an independent kind of woman(I've had to rein that IB too) In order to handle the precarious financial circumstances I was allowing myself to be in, I think I really had to lock down my fears and insecurities to really trust my H. with my life. And I did trust him! I'm wrangling with all that resentment now. If I'd done things differently maybe I wouldn't be in this predicament at this late date in my life.

This kind of looking back at the "I should haves" is very unproductive, I know. I need to get past the resentment while holding the bar high. As I said in my previous post to Indie and BrHurts. I'll get on the ball with the poly and the email to the Harleys today.


The career thing.....


My mother is a house wife. She hasn't worked since my brother was born. This does not make her dependant on my dad. She would kick him out over failure to PoJA and he knows it. She would still expect her due, financially and legally. Raising children is a job. Her standards are why they have a fantastic marriage and why her children and grandchildren worship her.

Most people don't think they would forgive an affair - until it happens and then all people want to know is if it's possible. Of course it is.

My grandfather was the breadwinner. What my grandmother earned was 'pin money' for dresses. Yet when he discovered her fledgling affair when they had a few toddlers, he fought like crazy for her. He didn't have any more options because of his job. They then raised nine children and dozens grandchildren and were in love well into old age and were only parted by death. They were the old couple who have it all,who you tend to see looking soppy when you've had a break up.

I've been a successful professional for many years. When my ex husband started spending all his nights and weekends with my friend, you didn't hear a peep out of me. Often I wasn't home myself. My salary was of no assistance at all in giving me courage and direction. In fact I have often wondered if my job had been at home, would I have been more protective and proactive as my mother is.

There's no correct life path to take to avoid this. It happens to everyone in all walks of life and they all have options of what to do when it does.


Last edited by indiegirl; 06/01/15 10:46 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by Gamma
lightwalker,

I do want to say to you, that my MIL who is in her 80s never had the guidance to take the steps you are taking now. I believe you are in your 60's and I suspect had my MIL insisted on a confession, polygraph or apology in her 60's she would not be in such a horrible state of limbo and hatred now.

There is a cumulative effect of lies that go on for years and decades that is toxic.

Gamma
Gamma,

It is very sad your MIL is in her 80's and still so resentful and full of hate. I'm grateful for finding MB and this forum.

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Thank you Indie for your insights about "the career thing." Your perspectives as well as those of other posters are always appreciated. It is easy to get entrenched in certain thoughts and attitudes. That is why this forum is so helpful.

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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by lightwalker
Indie and BrainHurts
I'm waiting for call backs from two different agencies who do polys and I have gotten my thoughts more organized. I have written up my concerns and a couple of specific questions to Email the Harleys.
Fantastic lightwalker. Let us know when you hear back.
BrainHurts,

I emailed my letter to Dr. Harley, but I've hit a bit of a snag with the poly. I had calls in to two agencies, but got no response and they had no email address listings. On further checking I found one was not credentialed. I called the one with the credentials again and found he had just retired. This was one had been in the business for 30 yrs. I asked for a possible referral to another polygrapher he might recommend and he said he hadn't found any he would recommend. I found a third even further away, but credentialed. When I called this one, it seems to have been a wrong number given out and also no email address given. Frustrating!! so I'm still looking for a polygrapher, but will keep trying.

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Call a police agency in your area ( sheriff's office or state not local) and ask for the detective that does polygraphs. The detective can't administer but should be able to refer you to someone.

Good luck!

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Thanks Ever2Late, I will check this out.

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Please, Could someone post today's (6/8) MB radio clip to my thread? Thank you!

Last edited by lightwalker; 06/08/15 01:49 PM. Reason: wrong date
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On 6/8 my email question was discussed on MB radio. I'm wondering if someone could either tell me how to post it on my thread, or if someone who knows how to do it could please post it here for me? I'm able to listen to the radio program using my H's phone, but I'm not able to receive it here on my tablet. No hurry as I have already listened to it--just when someone has the time I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by lightwalker
On 6/8 my email question was discussed on MB radio. I'm wondering if someone could either tell me how to post it on my thread, or if someone who knows how to do it could please post it here for me? I'm able to listen to the radio program using my H's phone, but I'm not able to receive it here on my tablet. No hurry as I have already listened to it--just when someone has the time I would really appreciate it. Thanks.
I will post it as soon as it hits the archives.

I haven't had a chance to listen, but did you tell Dr. Harley that your WH refuses to implement EPs and get 15 hours of UA?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I listened to your show, LW, and was very puzzled as to why the EP issue (which can't be implemented at your H's job) and the fact that your H says he cannot do the 15 hrs UA time was not addressed.

I am certain had Dr Harley know that, he would have said that's the reason that your R has stalled out (aka you said you don't know if you can fall back in love with your H).

Instead the focus of the letter that they read was about your H's mental health issues, the fact that you have both improved lovebusters and that your H continues to look at and compare you to younger women when you are out at restaurants.


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by lightwalker
On 6/8 my email question was discussed on MB radio. I'm wondering if someone could either tell me how to post it on my thread, or if someone who knows how to do it could please post it here for me? I'm able to listen to the radio program using my H's phone, but I'm not able to receive it here on my tablet. No hurry as I have already listened to it--just when someone has the time I would really appreciate it. Thanks.
I will post it as soon as it hits the archives.
Thank you BrainHurts, I appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by SusieQ
I listened to your show, LW, and was very puzzled as to why the EP issue (which can't be implemented at your H's job) and the fact that your H says he cannot do the 15 hrs UA time was not addressed.

I am certain had Dr Harley know that, he would have said that's the reason that your R has stalled out (aka you said you don't know if you can fall back in love with your H).

Instead the focus of the letter that they read was about your H's mental health issues, the fact that you have both improved lovebusters and that your H continues to look at and compare you to younger women when you are out at restaurants.
SusieQ and BrainHurts,

The letter which was read on the show was an edited version. Dr. Harley chose to discuss the flirtation and the problem of triggering. I believe in my letter I did say we were attempting to spend more UA time, but that I was not enjoying it due to the triggering, and Dr Harley did provide some advice on dealing with that which I found helpful.

I do understand his concept that for a woman that amount of UA time is essential to create love. I knew what his answer to that question would be. But there are two separate issues. One is making that UA time happen, and I am hoping the counselling with a coach can help us with that, and the second issue is that when we go out I'm not fully enjoying it and sometimes downright dreading it due to the PA issues and the issues with what I think might be obsessive interest in younger more attractive women. Not being a psychiatrist I don't know if it would be considered clinically obsessive or not. Dr. H did not address the MH issues. The reason I brought it up is in one radio broadcast a woman was having difficulty with her H because of his obsession with women of a particular type very unlike his W. She could never satisfy his PA needs. He also had OCD. Dr. H advised in this case the H needed to deal with his OCD with a specialist because his wife could never/should never be expected to try to meet his unrealistic expectation.

As far as the EP question related to monitoring my H's activity due to all equiptment being company owned, I didn't ask that. At this point I have yet to decide what I want to do about it. It sounds like the spying can be done if I am willing to do something illegal. My H is not the one stopping me from doing that. I am stopping me. I have to make that decision. Quitting his job is an issue we will need some assistance figuring out. I am hoping the coaching can help us with that.

Flirting is not happening in front of me (with one restaurant incident in which I was sitting next to him and didn't see him initiate anything, but he didn't respond to the waitress in a way I felt comfortable with) What I was attempting to ask Dr. H about was my own response to past issues. (his admission to extensive flirting and what I learned from his internet activities, and hurtful things he has said in the past. It is my issues with his past behavior rather than current behavior I am having most trouble with. It is what is in my head more than what is actually happening at the moment which lessens my ability to enjoy the UA time.

I couldn't ask all the questions I had so I narrowed it to a few issues which were affecting my enthusiasm for UA time since the UA time is so important.

Also I finally located an experienced, credentialed Polygrapher. He returned my call yesterday and spent about 45 minutes with me explaining the process and answering my questions. I felt very positive about the conversation with him. I think he is the guy. My H agreed.

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Originally Posted by lightwalker
Dr. H did not address the MH issues. The reason I brought it up is in one radio broadcast a woman was having difficulty with her H because of his obsession with women of a particular type very unlike his W. She could never satisfy his PA needs. He also had OCD. Dr. H advised in this case the H needed to deal with his OCD with a specialist because his wife could never/should never be expected to try to meet his unrealistic expectation.

But you did bring it up to Dr Harley in your letter, and his not commenting on it means that he did not think it was something that you should be focused on, LW.


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You seem to be making the issues in your situation much more complicated than they need to be. All of this has already been addressed and rehashed several times on this thread. Yet you keep going back to your H's mental health issues.

1) EPs - getting spyware on your H's devices.

If you cannot do this, then I do not believe recovery will be possible in this case. I believe your H is either still engaging in his SSL (even if it's just LOOKING at other women) and even if he is not, as you stated, he is inapporpriately emailing female coworkers and you need to be monitoring him.

Even if he was not, not feeling safe because you can't see what he's up to while he's on the internet/phone is going to keep you triggered and resentful.

2) UA time. You have given us several reasons why this isn't happening. First you said that your H's work schedule was a hinderance. Then when you were told if that was the case, he should leave his job, you then said your H was dragging his feet on it, yet had time for recreational activities. Then when it was pointed out that if he won't follow through on UA time, you should consider separating, now you are telling us you don't want the UA time ???!

LW, I am a single divorced mother who works full time and only has a little bit of time to post. I have to start abandoning threads where people are resistant to the very very basics such as EPs and UA - there is no point on working on the other issues such as POJA and ENs if you can't even get the easier stuff nailed down.

I do hope you get the coaching and can get this recovery going. But I will point out that even with coaching, the recovery isn't going to move forward with the lack of EPs/transparency and the lack of UA time.

Good luck.


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Originally Posted by SusieQ
You seem to be making the issues in your situation much more complicated than they need to be. All of this has already been addressed and rehashed several times on this thread. Yet you keep going back to your H's mental health issues.

1) EPs - getting spyware on your H's devices.

If you cannot do this, then I do not believe recovery will be possible in this case. I believe your H is either still engaging in his SSL (even if it's just LOOKING at other women) and even if he is not, as you stated, he is inapporpriately emailing female coworkers and you need to be monitoring him.

Even if he was not, not feeling safe because you can't see what he's up to while he's on the internet/phone is going to keep you triggered and resentful.

2) UA time. You have given us several reasons why this isn't happening. First you said that your H's work schedule was a hinderance. Then when you were told if that was the case, he should leave his job, you then said your H was dragging his feet on it, yet had time for recreational activities. Then when it was pointed out that if he won't follow through on UA time, you should consider separating, now you are telling us you don't want the UA time ???!

LW, I am a single divorced mother who works full time and only has a little bit of time to post. I have to start abandoning threads where people are resistant to the very very basics such as EPs and UA - there is no point on working on the other issues such as POJA and ENs if you can't even get the easier stuff nailed down.

I do hope you get the coaching and can get this recovery going. But I will point out that even with coaching, the recovery isn't going to move forward with the lack of EPs/transparency and the lack of UA time.

Good luck.
Thank you for your time SusieQ (and all other posters) You are absolutely right on all you have said, especially re the UA time. My H is dragging his feet and I am having difficulty due to the issues I mention. You are right about the ramifications of not getting the spyware on, or not leaving the job. The map is provided, but it is up to us to follow it. I agree you have said everything you possibly can. I appreciate you and all the others are very busy with your lives and are volunteering precious time. I agree you should move on to help others.

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Originally Posted by lightwalker
You are absolutely right on all you have said, especially re the UA time.

And especially the spyware.

Quote
I appreciate you and all the others are very busy with your lives and are volunteering precious time. I agree you should move on to help others.

Wouldn't it be better if you followed the plan? Do you want this situation to get better? There's a plan to follow if your husband works with you, and a plan to follow if he doesn't, and either way, it gets better for you.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by lightwalker
You are absolutely right on all you have said, especially re the UA time.

And especially the spyware.

Quote
I appreciate you and all the others are very busy with your lives and are volunteering precious time. I agree you should move on to help others.

Wouldn't it be better if you followed the plan? Do you want this situation to get better? There's a plan to follow if your husband works with you, and a plan to follow if he doesn't, and either way, it gets better for you.
Markos,

Oh yes, I do want it to be be better. And I know it must seem so obvious for those of you who have struggled their way through this already. We have stalled as SusieQ points out due to lack of UA time and the transparency problem. At the same time the marriage is so much better than it was. My husband has worked with me, but we've both had screw ups, particuularly in the last month. We are at a point we really need some outside help and encouragement. I've received it here, but my H hasn't. We can't do it on our own. That is why we've decided on getting the coaching. It may or may not help, but I would like to try it before I would decide to separate. If My H was refusing to do MB, get the coaching, take a poly, was making no progress with eliminating LB's then I know I would have to separate. Where we are right now it doesn't seem so clear. Thank you for your thoughts on this Markos. I know you have been through it all.





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