jules, I am going to refer you to the thread that made me start posting on MB.

It concerned someone who became a dear friend of mine, tully. Her case came to mind immediately I read yours, because she lived in France but was Irish, and she took her children to Ireland in Plan B, and her H took them back. It was only when she had been in Ireland for several weeks that the implications of having taken her children against her H's will became apparent.

This is a very long read, and painful to me because I was not at all sane when I wrote my own story at length on tully's thread - but reading it will help you understand how I know the behaviour of the cake-eating WH, and you can see, from my own mad ramblings, the harm that was done to me by the repeated D Days. You can also see the harm that was done to tully and her children by her cake-eating H, and how an international Plan B collapsed because of lack of proper legal planning.

As you will see, Plan B in her case did not bring the marriage back together; it led her H to choose OW, and that was my point in the email above. However, the alternative of living with a WH who is openly screwing a whore and going home to his family each night is intolerable, and that is why a woman must go to Plan B early.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2144565&page=1

If you decide to go to Plan B (and you MUST do so if the affair continues), and if you want to go back home with the kids, you should first, try and persuade your H to let you take the children to the UK. You will have to appeal to his goodwill, and explain to him how the affair is harming your health, and how you need family support. In short, you'll have to beg him to be compassionate to you, when he might not feel compassionate at all.

If he will not agree, you can see a lawyer about taking them legally, but I think you must assume that this would take months. A judge would have to weigh your health and well-being against the children's needs to see their father, and you must be aware that legal systems tend be be neutral about the issue of adultery. Adultery alone will not persuade a judge that your children will be better off not seeing their father weekly.

Meanwhile, you should either ask your H to move out, or if you would rather leave, arrange to move yourself, while staying in Ireland.

There are difficulties involved when you bring up your kids in a different country from your home country, when a marriage breaks down. It's fine if, as in one case I know, the mother feels that life in the new country is great for her and the kids, and she wants to keep the kids in their familiar environment, and close to their father. It's when she does not want to stay in that country, and she wants to take the kids and go home, that judges and international conventions need to be brought into play, and things become difficult.

How many of the checklist items has he agreed to Jules?

Sounds like he's protective over his phone still?

If you have a reluctant, foot dragging wayward who you sense is still in his affair, I would suggest you visit a lawyer at the earliest opportunity so you know what your options are in all eventualities.

It's an important Plan B preparation for anyone but given the complications Sugar Cane has highlighted it makes sense for you to be ahead of the game and know where you need to steer him.

It could be an epic fail to leave on this trip, if you will be forced to return. Not only will his affair probably restart, but he could have the locks changed in your absence, move her in, and you would be forced to find new lodgings for yourself and the children in Ireland.

hi guys
thanks for the posts.I just want to clear up the comment i made about my trip to the u.k, i have no intentions of taking my children away from their father without consent, he knows we are planning a trip to 'visit' my family i just meant if he is not fully on board with our marriage by then, then while we are away would be good time for him to pack up and find somewhere else to live.

I am totally paranoid and confused at the moment about 'recovery'.

my h has had no contact with ow for 5 weeks apart from 1 missed call on the night she rang me full of abuse regarding me telling her brothers about A, he did not answer the call or call her back and we blocked her number after that.
I have full access to his phone and e.mails and finances, he fully understands that the only 1 that can delete history off these is me.
He is home early every evening for the past 7 weeks and has gone nowhere else.
He is becoming more relaxed at home and enjoying family life more.
He calls me during the day for a chat (which had stopped when he was having A)
If i call to his workshop when im passing, he will ask me to stay for a coffee and chat (which had also stopped)
He will call me when he is leaving work.
He will tell me about his day or share funny stories (also had stopped)
I catch him looking at me when im getting dressed (also had stopped)
He is calling into his mother's house for a cuppa (which had stopped completely)
I understand these are all small examples of his behaviour, but i seem to analyse every move he makes!!
Is this the start of recovery????

As for me, i have just come back from the doctors, i have a genetic disorder that accelerates in women once they pass 40. I am 41 and can already see this happening. i recieved results which mean i have to fly to a research facility in Liverpool and have my body mapped so i can recieve trial medication to stop my bones and cartlidge from crumbling, it will also affect my mental state.
I dont know when i have to go, but i do have to go.If they get me in quick what am suppossed to do? not go just incase he rings OW.
The doctor also put me on anti-deppresants he seems to think lack of proper sleep is also bringing me down.

hi sugarcane
thanks for the link, i am in the middle of reading it.

Why isn't he going with you?

the research facility is going to fly me over and i have to stay there. he needs to look after the kids.

jules, please think about this. How would a wayward behave, who has been discovered and wants to keep his marriage together, and also wants to keep his affair?

Would he behave as he did before he was discovered? Would he be cross, rude, distracted and absent, as he was then, or would he try harder to present a facade of being all-in?

A lot of couples go through what is called "hysterical bonding" after D Day. I don't know that this phenomenon is properly understood, but some couples "bond" like jackrabbits on Viagra for several weeks, and even months. My H and I went through that phase, and it lasted about a year after D Day 1, when I believed the affair to be over, and even longer after D Day 2 and the many D Days that followed my rediscovery of the affair, until my H gave up his travelling job.

I lost a lot of weight, and did 3-4 mile runs 5 times a week, after I rediscovered the affair (D Day 2 and more). I looked fantastic. In between crying and not sleeping, I couldn't keep my hands off my H, nor he off me, and he was a very happy man. I had many of the signs from him that you list above. They meant nothing at all in terms of the affair being over; it wasn't.

Many men are quite able to love and be happy with two women. Most women can't do that, and so they cannot keep up a facade with their H's for long during an affair, but many men can do that; indeed, it might not be a facade, because they are genuinely happy having two devoted women in their beds, and more sex than they ever had when they were single, and more sex than most men they know are getting now. Sex with two women is a fantasy come true, for many. Of course they are happy!

You are arguing with us here, and there really is no need. You can do whatever you feel is best for your situation; you are a grown woman, after all.

We've told you what we know, based on Dr Harley's vast experience, and our own experience in our marriages, about what happens after an affair if you continue to spend nights apart from each other. Your husband hasn't broken his addiction to this woman, and she is an unmarried bunny boiler. If she gets the chance, she will be in your bed, or at the nearest hotel, before your anaesthetist can say "count backwards from 10".

You can take the risk of the affair reigniting if you are not prepared to accept our advice, and Dr Harley's - or perhaps you don't think that there is any risk. Well, we know that the risk is high, but there is no point arguing here with us. Do as you think you must.

If you want to take our advice, you could cancel the trip to the UK this summer, or you can insist that your H goes with you for the whole trip. You can make arrangements for someone to stay in your home with your children, or dash them across to your parents, if you get admitted to hospital, while your H accompanies you to Liverpool. You can think strategically about how not to take risks with your marriage - or you can ignore us. It's you life, and your choice.

Jules blocking her number isn't good enough. Change it. Change email. Change everything. She could contact him and retrigger the affair in minutes.

NC letter? Has that been done?

Liverpool - my home town!

You got some real support in exposure - can anyone there help with the kids?

If not, he has to bring them doesn't he? It's unthinkable that on the back of an affair he doesn't accompany his sick wife to her treatment facility.


The whole point of marriage - in sickness and in health!

Do you have family or a friend who could keep the kids? Could they all go? He should really be with you, especially for your major medical testing. He should also never be away over night. In the US there are charities that help families stay together during an illness or major rounding of testing. Is there anything like that in your area?

i dont mean to be argumentitive i'm just p...ed off that i have to treat him like a child, monitoring him, 2nd guessing him and trying to be 1 step ahead all the time.

Sugarcane we are not having sex, and im sure he's not having it with ow.we are certainly not hopping on each other, a cuddle is as far as it goes.
I agree with you guys about my trip to u.k it can be cancelled, as for Liverpool that is a must and because we are broke the whole family coming is not an option right now but i dont even know when i have to go it could be another 3 months away i will find out in the next few weeks.
As for where we are in the 'withdrawl'or 'recovery' i still dont know.
he has told me everything about A
he is remorseful and has taken full responsabilty
he dealt with exposure
he accounts for his time
i have full access to everything
he now talks openly to me instead of dragging everything out him
he is home all the time
no contact for weeks
last time he seen her was 2 months ago

BUT no intimacy between us yet !!!!

I know we have to be alert and watch out for the worst to happen but when can we start thinking, maybe we are heading in the right direction together.

Exchange phones


Also, how can you afford the trip to the UK now but can't for the med stuff? If you cancel the trip, will you get that money back?

It's a bad habit, common in many marriages, to just let your spouse look after themselves. Easier - but not better. Your whole world is wrapped up in your spouse. You talk about the cost of this trip,but have you ever tried paying for a divorce and supporting two households? That's where you are headed unless recover is done right.

EVERY bit. Small deviations allow the addiction to stay alive. You can't be content with an 'it's mostly done'. You do not appreciate how addictive affairs are.


So - changed number? email?

NC letter?

Okay: you are missing my point.

You are not having sex, but you wrote that he is taking more interest in you - you gave a list of the ways. My point was that you cannot count on his seeming to be interested in you as a sign of the affair having ended. I used the example of hysterical bonding while continuing an affair only to show you that men can be VERY "into" their wives and be "into" their whores at the same time. I was also trying to get you to see that he could be faking this, to cover up the fact that he is still in contact with ho-bag.

You don't have to do any monitoring or second-guessing if you find that unacceptable. You could make the choice to stay with your husband and not do it at all, whatever the consequences turn out to be, or you could decide that this is not a marriage, and leave.

However, you posted here for help, and we are going to tell you what we know, from Dr Harley and ourselves, about affairs. We are not going to tell you that it is okay to take a trip, or go to Liverpool, when we know that OW will not give up on your H easily, and he will not forget her easily. We are trying to stop you from going through the horror of repeat D Days that some of us went through - I can promise you that it is much worse than the first D Day. You can take that advice, or you can leave it.

Neither you nor we know that your H is still in the affair - although you came here on June 2nd posting your doubts about your situation. All we can advise is that you stay vigilant and do not take risks, such as taking a trip away from him.

Get that spyware in place, by the way.

hi sugarcane,
i do understand that he could still be 'playing' me and this is what has me so distressed. he did send no contact letter and he has stuck to it (as far as i know) his e.mails come through me and i check his phone.
Even when he is working out on job i drive by just incase and he is where he says he is.
I cant get money back on flights to u.k and liverpool is funding my flights and time there if im willing to be test subject for new medication.
I guess i was expecting more between us by now and im disheartend.
she lives nearly an hour away thats why i know he is not just nipping round the corner to see her, but i do realise they could be meeting half way.
we have had such open, honest and frank converstions about the A and our marriage and have sobbed in eachothers arms (my h does not do crying) i am getting upset just thinking about it so im gonna go now.
thank you guys for all your support x

This.

As for 'being broke' affairs rape finances. I've seen couples on these forums go horrendously in debt, give up jobs, move. But they go on to do well.

However in your case it's not the affair that makes it so important you stay together at night. That is a must for any married couple. If you split up to tackle these things you will end up permanently split.

Why is there no movement on the checklist items such as changed numbers? Does he refuse?


GPS will let you know what's happening if any secret meet ups.

What does he do for a living? He sounds mobile, which is an issue if she's just an hour away.

He is as aware as you are of how he can reach her. One day he will, if he can. That's how addiction works. Just the possibility of his doing it will drain you anyway.

He could also leave his vehicle somewhere and walk to meet her.

I think you are looking at a move.

I do hope this wasn't you signing off for good.

Have you read this?

False Recovery-Need Voices of Experience