5 weeks ago i found out my husband was having an affair i want to tell you guys my story but dont know if this is the right spot or if im posting in the right location!!!

Of course it is, and you are! Please go ahead.

How long have you been married?

Do you have any children?

How long have you been married?

Did you discover with whom your Wayward Husband is having this affair with?

Is this the 1st time you suspected an affair?

How has your marriage been prior to this timeframe?

Do you have any children and if so, what are their ages?

Do they work together?

How do they maintain contact with each other?

Do you feel that you want to try to save your married?

You must be capable of taking serious actions to destroy the affair. Are you willing to do that?

Have you read the top post in this sub-forum entitled, "Surviving An Affair"?

Read that topic thread and all of the links to understand how and why you will be requested to take certain actions.

LTL

we have been together 16 years married for 6 and have 2 children.i found out about the affair 4 weeks ago and went straight to this website for advice. i found break up messages and we talked and talked and cried!
after a week of knowing he broke down (which i have never seen before) and told me he loves me but is not 'in love ' with me this hurt so much. i read about the withdrawl from affairs and have tried to be really strong.its been 4 weeks now and although he seems to becoming more like the man i love again. but will he every love me or am i wasting my time and tears!!!!

You would be wasting your time and tears if you don't have a plan for recovery. Have you read the Marriage Builders plan for recovery?

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

i have been with my husband for 16 years, we have 2 children and have been through some tough years together we have always been a good 'team'. in 2013 we moved to a small cottage that needed alot of work, we worked well together even when we were stressed out. xmas 2013 he lost his dad, we got through that and still had a good xmas and new year in our building site of a house. we worked very hard in 2014 to finish the house before our daughters communion in may, we did it after very long evenings of bloody hard work and had a big family celebration. then he went back to working long hours and over the summer we drifted apart, 1st it was never having time to do anything together, then our sex life became non existant ( me pulling away because of lack of time together) we both knew our marriage was in trouble. winter 2014 i knew something else was going on his personality changed even family noticed it. xmas and new year was terrible he was so distant.just before easter this year he started coming home early and getting involved with home life and going on days out with the kids and seemed more relaxed but i still couldnt rest i eventually found 'break up' meassages on his phone, it all came out. he had been having an affair from october 2014 - march 2015, only a coffee and meet ups at first then turned more serious just before christmas he spent 5 nights with her over that time. we talked and looked at your website and decided to try and move forward. 1 week after i found out he broke down and said he loved me but was not 'in love ' with me. he wants to stay and the affair has ended but we are 4 weeks on from that break down and i still feel no real affection for me although he is starting to be more like the man i knew before all this. will he ever love me again or am i wasting my time and my love?????

Did you read Melody Lane's posts? Have you exposed his affair at all and have you done anything on the checklist she posted?

How have you confirmed that the affair is over? What kind of snooping are you doing to confirm this?

i have read it, its hard at the minute because im trying to be strong and let his feelings for me come back. somedays i think we are really connecting better than we ever have, then other times i think my god how will we ever get through this!!

Welcome to MB and I'm sorry for your pain.

MB has a specific plan to recover marriages after an affair. But you have to follow a PLAN and not just blog about feelings.

Are you interested in following a plan and recovering your marriage?

You must be British!

i have exposed is affair to his sister and couple of close friends, ive checked his phone and e.mails even though i know he could delete from them if need be. he told me she sent 2 text messages the week after he broke it off, her ranting and raving at him but did not show me them! he promised me he wouldnt respond after reading the 'withdrawl' from an affair but who knows, this is why i am so confused. we have tried making love he can satisfy me but not himself and that makes me wonder if really he wants to be with her. he says its because he loves me but fell out of 'love' and still feels guilty about what he did to me!

i am!

The first thing that must happen is that he ends all contact with her. That means he gives you his phone and/or gets a new phone so she can no longer contact him. We don't care if he tells you that he doesn't respond because that makes absolutely no difference. As long as she is free to contact him, the affair is active.

The REASON he has fallen out of love with you is because he is in love with the OW. He is just saying th4e same things that ALL cheaters say. He is high on the fog on the affair. His feelings will NEVER come back as long as they are in contact.

So first thing is to demand that he end his affair. He has to get a new phone # and email address.

you have to DO the things on this list, starting with him NEVER having contact with her ever. EVER.

Jules,

One very important question does the OW have a husband, OWH, or boyfriend.

Before the OW cuts off contact, copy all of her facebook, linked in and other contact lists.

Gamma

No she is divorced with children. I have no contact details for her I don't even know her name he doesn't want me to contact her. I think this is unfair but he wants to forget about it!

I am interested in a plan, he just wants to forget what happened because he's ashamed. I have told him if he doesn't fully get on board with building our marriage up I will go back to England with the kids in the summer to be around my family for support.

I would start by getting her full name, address and cell phone #. You need to find everything about her. This is not negotiable information. It is information about your life that you have a right to know. Don't take no for an answer. If he won't tell you WHO the woman is, I would pack his bags and show him to the door, because he is NOT SERIOUS about recovery if he intends on keeping secrets from you.

The Plan starts with him ending contact FOR LIFE with his OW. You cannot take his word for this, you need to verify this through snooping. You also need to follow the checklist ML posted to make it next to impossible for them to communicate again.

Obviously you cannot protect yourself or your marriage against a threat that is a mystery. If your WH is serious about recovery he would gladly give you that information so you can protect yourself. The fact that he is hiding her identity means that he is not serious and is protecting HER over you or your marriage.

Many time when someone is protecting their AP 1) the affair is still ON or 2) the AP is someone in their every day lives and the fallout from exposure would be very impactful.

His OW could be your neighbor or your best friend for all you know. You need to know this to protect yourself! If he won't tell you her identity, you need to snoop and find out on your own.

x 2

How old are your children?

Do you live in the States?

Welcome to MB

Do you still have this evidence? Is it texts or emails?

Ok I know what I need to do next, I just hope I have the strength I can't take much more, thank you for your advice.

No he deleted everything I was stupid not to copy the number down

Check his phone records for numbers.

My children are 8 & 9 I live in ireland

Have these people confronted WH? You need to expose his affair to other relevant targets...his/your parents, other siblings, your children (they are old enough). If WH refuses to ID the OW then that also can be part of your exposure.

You weren't stupid. Dday is a horrific blow to a BS. Please don't beat yourself up.

You can also put a keylogger on his phone.

Yes, you have the strength! Just choose to use it. Don't settle for crumbs, my friend. You will dearly regret it.

Can you access your/his cell phone records online where you are at?

Look for the phone number that rings a bell from when you saw it previously.

Go through his Contact List and download all of the data into a secret folder and then save it to a Flash Drive.

Look for frequent calls to the same numbers at all sorts of times during the day and night, but especially immediately after he left home for work.

Put your foot down and insist, and if he refuses to cooperate, asked him to pack his things.

That will give him time to think.

You will need to do a wider exposure for sure, but it would be very helpful if you knew who the POSOW was.

Find Out.

Check out his FaceBook Page in secret if you can.

Purchase a computer keylogger and a cell phone spy keylogger.

Hide a VAR, Voice Activated Recorder under the drivers seat of his car, attached with velcro. Usually, you can find out everything you need to know within 2-3 days with that method.

Don't Blow Up at him. Even though you are breaking apart, Only Calm, Cool thinking will get you through this.

Don't beg. Don't look weak. You WILL persevere and get through this stronger, regretfully, than you ever knew.

What EXACTLY are your plans?

The more astute veterans need to know how you are implementing the plan, without having to prod you for details.

Keep posting. If you need privacy, then go to the public library and use the computers there.

LTL

What is a key logger? I've looked for his phone bill but can't find it, I'm going to go to his workshop when I know he's out on a job and see if he is keeping his phone records there . I did check there the day after d day when I was mad but found nothing.

We only have 1 computer that we all use and I found nothing on that, he's not on Facebook or any other social media there is only his phone and everything has been deleted from that. My plan at the moment is to find them phone records so I can sit down with him and get him to admit he's still in contact and take it from there. I have no family here and very little money at the moment after a hard year so if I make a move with the children it will have to be back to the uk to be around my family.

He can buy an affair phone.
They have no records and are very cheap.

i agree about the phone, i think my only option is to send him packing. the worry i have about this is we live in a small village and im afraid i will see him every day, i dont know how me and the kids will cope with that!

Don't sit down with him to get him to admit anything. If the phone records show there is contact, that is all you need. He should not be aware of any of your snooping and you don't need his admission either.


I would give him a firm deadline to disclose the identity of the OW...like tonight. If he refuses I would start make plans to go back to the UK. You will be spinning your wheels if you don't know who OW is. Recovery will never happen. Have you exposed his affair to your family yet? You should. They can offer support and help you prepare to move if it comes to that.

i have only revealed the affair to my sister and sister in law in the u.k i know they will support me its just such a big move im not worried how i will cope im worried how my children will react being dragged from school and everything they are familiar with. i know i should be just focusing on what is best for us in the long run.

You need to expose on OW's side.

Have you checked online phone records to get the number and then check whose name the number belongs to?

well i searched everywhere for phone number and couldnt find one so me and my h sat down and i explained how i needed to know everything to be able to move on. he finally gave me her name and it was the person my gut was telling me it was although i could barely believe it because she is his cousin, in 16 years of us being together we maybe see her once a year.
i got her number and confronted her and she is deranged i was shocked at how mad she was compared to how calm and collected i was. her story was the same as his, the affair started in december last year and they ended things around 4 weeks ago and she hates him.this all happened a couple of hours ago!!

You need to expose to the whole family now.

He didn't want to tell you because he could still see her at family events. Has you read the book Surviving an Affair yet? No contact will be harder because of the family.

Harder in what sense?

Harder in the sense that other family members may try to bring his AP around.

It makes exposure that much more crucial so the rest of the family know what is going on.

Bring her around what?

If people here can avoid work colleagues (by changing job) and neighbours (by moving house) and former best friends - people that they potentially see every day, and whose existence is tied up with their home, church or their employment, how much harder can it be to avoid a cousin - and one that they only saw "perhaps once a year"?

Avoiding this cousin will involve not going to family functions at which she might be present. These appear to take place no more than once a year. How is that situation harder than any number of cases active on the forum right now?

The ow does not come to our family events only the events that involve their aunt who is a nun and visits on the rare occasion. I have made it clear that we will not attend these events anymore. The ow does not live or work in our town and is not friends with any of our friends. She was not expecting me to contact her as she thought she was far enough away from my home life and circle of friends to not guess it was her she thought it was over and finished and I would never find out her identity because my h would be too ashamed to tell me.

Did WH grow up with her? This is an incestuous affair. Is that a deal breaker for you?

By all means, the nun aunt will be exhillarated, if you expose to her.

No they did not grow up together in fact it's only the last 7 or 8 years that her side of the family started to make an effort to turn up to any events that's why I don't really know her. If it was a close cousin then yes it would be a deal breaker.

I have no intentions of humiliating their nun aunt who has done nothing wrong, is near retirement age and is fabulous caring women I simply could not do that to her.

How is it humiliating? If she is a deeply religious woman such as a nun, she is an ideal person to ask for help in fighting adultery.

Is it possible to rebuild our marriage and for him to be "in love" with me again without full exposure???

That maybe true but my wh is very close to his aunt and I know things would never be the same again he wouldn't be able to face her and this would hurt her a lot and she just lost her brother and sister

I'm confused by the bold.

You're okay that it's with his cousin, but if it was a close cousin that's the deal breaker?

On the cousin thing: first cousin marriages are legal in the UK; I don't know about Ireland.

I think, because of that, while we do have a degree of the "yuk" factor about the issue, it probably isn't as great as where it is actually illegal.

Thanks for the explanation about the cousin being legal.

Maybe that is what she means by it would be a deal breaker if it was a "close" cousin compared to this cousin not being that close??

Jules do not lie to this family. You are all being hurt by this affair it is evil and you need to fight it together.

It is insulting to imply they have anything to be embarrassed about. I am sure they will fight tooth and nail proudly.

Stop being a sodding martyr doing this alone, get a nuclear exposure figured out and encourage all your targets to contact him and her at ONCE.

All exposure targets should be hit in 24 hours because you do not tiptoe over eggshells while fighting for your marriage.

Ruin their day!

When I exposed all my in-laws in Ireland got on a plane here to England. They sat him in the centre of a room and asked him what on earth he thought he was playing at. They made sure I knew I had their unstinting support and would have been horrified had I kept it from them.

It was the older women who were by far the best at calling him out. Too often BWs on these forums dismiss older ladies as useless in fighting affairs when they've seen far more of life and affairs than she has, usually.

It was actually more important to them than me to confront him. I was young, childless and could easy get a new husband. They couldn't get new flesh and blood and they did not deserve lies about him.

It decreases the odds exponentially.

Others may go all the way to state that for sure it is impossible too.

If she is a good Nun, then she is very well versed in reconciliation, penance and forgiveness as well.

Since she is so well thought of by your Wayward Husband, she more than likely would be one of your most strategic allies in fighting this sin as defined in the Holy Commandments.

LTL

what i meant by a close cousin being a deal breaker is that a close cousin would be someone in our lives, close to our kids and family and that would be too much.

does everyone agree that i should expose? it really feels wrong! i know they are the ones in the wrong but should i really explode this bomb?

Yes! Expose. It does feel counter-intuitive, but it is the best thing you can do for your marriage.

ok i took the first step i forwarded the messages the ow sent me yesterday admitting to affair and being really nasty, to my 2 sister in laws, i feel sick!

You are bring the truth to light. And you should DEFINITELY expose to your aunt who is a nun. This woman has made it her life's work to stand against evil. She will certainly want to stand against it in her own family.

i feel like everything is more hopeless now than 5 weeks ago on dday!!

Listen the most important thing is following a plan.
There is always hope.
In his book Leadership, Rudy Guliani explained the challenges he faced when terrorism struck NYC. I remember from the book how he explained he was tired and worn out, but still took time to read a little from Churchill and get some sleep.
He knew they had a plan (although it changed often) and he had hope they would get through it

Stick to the MB plan.

I thought A Few Good Men showed that people CAN handle the truth.

i know i'm exhausted, physically and mentally worn out! i want to be able to sleep, eat and think about something other than this!!!

You need to finish all exposures

Everyone feels that way BEFORE they do it. You will feel better about it after you've done it and a few days passes. Eventually you will be glad you did it.

Sorry jules. This is the reason why exposure needs to happen ASAP and shouldn't be dragged out. It's been 5-6 weeks since Dday and nothing could improve during that time. Exposure also helps you get a support system which any BS needs because it IS exhausting to deal with infidelity. Things will get better but the first steps need to happen or you will always be exhausted and anxious as nothing would change.

Hugs to you. Hang in there.

When you forwarded the emails to your Sisters-in-Law did you also follow the sample letters they have on this site where you explain you are trying to save your marriage and looking for their support?

Remember, exposure is not just a tool to punish and humiliate - it is a tool to kill the affair, prevent future affairs, and get support for your marriage from family and friends. That's why you explain you want to save your marriage and need their support. And why you do it all at once - kaboom!

the truth is out! and i do feel better. i exposed on her side last night. i have had her brothers (who she looks up ) on the phone to me all morning expressing how disgusted they are, that shes band from all contact from our side of the family and they will be finished with her altogether if she tries to make any contact with me or wh.

i did explain im trying to save our marriage and we cant move on if she is still in our lives. they support me 100%. thank god.

Exposed to everyone? Kids too?

Exposures should hit them all at once. The addiction will lead them to mislead anyone missed out.

Well done!

Most people are supportive but it's also important to smoke out the unsupportive so you know who they are.

i did not expose to my children they are only 8&9 and i decided not to tell them. i am really hoping that things will change and all of this was the right thing to do.
when MB talks about withdrawl in WH does that mean that will probably happen from now?

Your children need to know the truth as to why there is turmoil in their home and lives. Otherwise, they look inside of themselves and feel they are partly to blame.

Do you want them to even partially feel that your husbands affair is partly due to them?

It is very simple.

You tell them that they need to know that Daddy is making wrong choices and married people are not supposed to date anyone else, and even though there are things You could have done better, cheating is NOT the way a good person should handle things instead of working on any problems.

They could be one of the greatest assets in breaking up the affair, but most importantly, they will know that Mommy is telling them the truth and they will know they can confide in you regarding deep feelings and issues, instead of sweeping things under the carpet, which is what you have currently decided to do.

LTL

Please read this and then explain why you won't expose to your children?
Exposing to Children

I told my children.
They were that young.

Before I told them......they had all sorts of ideas about what was happening and those ideas were quite beyond the basic "Dad is dating someone else and married men shouldn't do that. They should only date their wife. I am very sad about this but will do my best to deal with it and be the mom you need me to be"

Mine were 6 and 8 when told of their dad's affair. They are now 13 and 15 and know they will get the truth from me even when it's not pretty. There are multiple and valuable life lesson to teach children from exposure. Sheltering them makes them ill prepared to cope with problems as the grow up.

My XH's father cheated on his mother. His sister found out and they talked together about it. Children always know what their parents are up to because the happiness of their parents is so central to their survival. Because nothing was said to them by either of their parents and they remained married, they assumed that this was normal behavior.

When our marriage ran into problems with the stress of two children born 12 months apart, my XH immediately got himself a girlfriend because that was the coping mechanism that he knew. This is not what you want for your children.

thank you guys for all the advice on exposing to children. but i have decided not to tell them. they know we are going through some problems and we have talked to them about marriage, explained to them when married people are drifting apart and not putting effort or care and understanding into their everyday lives that a marriage can break down and that we are trying to figure out our problems together, to build a better marriage together.
i know you guys believe i must expose to them before we can move on.does that mean you cant give me advice anymore because we will still be referring to this problem?

Not successfully no. Please remember this is an addiction that lasts forever and requires EVERY measure. Not making such a huge miss as this. You've given your husband carte Blanche to cheat by putting a veil around it. You've encouraged the addict in him to lie to and confuse the children.

You yourself have confused them because they have seen the traumatic effects of what is happening and you've normalized it. When children are told that affair behaviour is normal, they copy it. This is actually more important than ending the affair. You need to tell them affairs are wrong and when they happen, you fight them.

Dr H found out about his family's affairs when he was four and learned how to avoid them. Save other people from them.

My FiLs affairs were normalized and explained away as normal and so he got the idea from his mother that behaving that way was OK until the small behaviour he saw (anger, dismissiveness, being away from home) turned into being the covered up result - a cheating husband.

I had to explain the affair to my six and five year old niece and nephew because their friendships with OWs children had been destroyed. Their reaction was better than most grownups. They did not say a word about the effect on them and wanted to confront their uncle, but spoke very lovingly about him. They were full of advice and hugs! I was stunned. My nephew already knew. Smelling a rat he'd hid and listened to us - "I thought you weren't supposed to talk about it". He is now eight and is a true little gentleman.

I think it is very sad you can't speak honestly to them. They would surprise you.

Never had a situation on this forum where it wasn't essential and positive.

This is a lie. You haven't drifted apart. He is having an affair. There is no problem with your marriage. The affair is the problem.

When they fantasize about OW being the children's new mother (all people in affairs do this even with patently unsuitable affair partners) they have decided to tell them he has problems with you. Unsolvable problems (Not important enough to spell out) but important enough to quit on marriage.

They will tell the kids that marriage is disposable when you don't get along. Even though nursery kids get taught to get along.

Most children know they are being told patronising claptrap and assume it is their fault.

The first step is to get the BS to agree with the 'my wife is the problem' diagnosis.

Then, when he suddenly leaves and introduces them to ' my brand new and innocent girlfriend' you have no leg to stand on. You joined in with the lies and now cannot tell the truth.

You think he won't because she's his cousin? Well affair addicts have done this with drug dealers and paedophile affair partners. He will.

My mother was and is radically honest. She raised us with the knowledge of her poor behavior (teen drug use, promiscuity, abortion) from a very early age; I can't remember a time I didn't know my mother's history. I trust everything she says as truth and have my entire life. She used this to teach us how wrong these things were. She was her own object lesson for how people can turn away from wrongdoing if they choose.

We aren't advocating telling inappropriate details of sex acts or to pour out all of your emotions on them. But they should know about the affair because it is one of the most important events in their own lives.

My father kept my mother's affair a secret from my brother and I when we were children. I still love my father, but I'm disappointed that he did not tell me. His silence also allowed my mother to poison us against him. It's standard practice of those who have affairs. They demonize the betrayed spouse to try to justify themselves. It's a disservice to children to keep the truth from them. I'm not saying this just because it's MB advice. I can state from my own personal experience that I wish my father had been honest with me.

I'm working with an incredibly fine teacher at the moment whose father used to kill people (brain washed terrorist from a young age). Not only does she tell everyone about it, but she invites her father into schools to talk to her pupils about it. He is now a minister.

We asked her old she was when he told her and she said she cannot remember a time when she did not know her father was a murderer. THAT is how it is done.

He never allowed her to be surprised or confused. He reassured her with transparency. I absolutely cannot wait to meet this guy.

The only people who are possibly finer or braver are the former wayward spouses here at MB who are so healed that they do not hide their pasts.

Okay.

Be vague and don't give them basic facts about their family situation.

Lets see how that works for them and their future.

Time will tell.

You can always change your mind and be honest with them. If you get to that juncture, it will be tough for you and them but a powerful message for them to have and to use as reference in their lives.

We've all cut corners upon arrival here. We all wanted the quick easy fix - not caring abut the long term ramifications.

Dr Harley has been doing this with incredible success for decades. He is the one who knows how to affair proof a marriage, while all of us patently did NOT. What I've learned is the one thing you are worst at/scared of doing is usually the one thing you need to DO most.

If we were to blow past the exposure to kids thing, and say it doesn't matter two things would happen:

A) Dr Harley's forum moderators would delete our advice because it is not MB advice.
B) None of the MB advice would work without exposure to the kids. One gap in the exposure fence is all an affair couple need to feel they can carry on. You will have handed your kids over to an OW.

There is a BIG difference between a married couple drifting apart and a marriage being shaken apart from an affair.

Any secrets that the wayward can consciously or unconsciously get away with allows a potential for using that lack of honesty to their advantage to resume their affair lifestyle.

The decision to be honest with your children is NOT a mutual, husband/wife decision. It is done by the betrayed spouse to protect their marriage and family.

Kids know that there is more that they are not being told. But, they don't know what, so they imagine all sorts of possibities, never knowing if they put the puzzle together, which will continually haunt their private thoughts and emotional well being.

It's a tough decision, because you think they will feel ill will towards their Dad, but with truthful complete openness, they at least have the whole picture and will not remain in an uncontrolable panic about all of the what ifs.

Also, they hopefully voice their displeasure with those immoral poor choices.

Do they want the POSOW to be their new Mommy?

Do you?

This is an essential part of full and complete exposure.

How many marriages has your personal plan recovered from an affair?

LTL

In addition to all the excellent posts about exposing to children. Did you actually listen to the clips from Dr. Harley on exposing to children in the thread I posted to you?

julesm,

Please really READ these posts & links by these members trying to help you. They know what they are talking about!

We all were afraid to tell our kids. We all want to shelter & protect our kids. But hiding his affair is NOT protecting them.

My children were older,, late teens. Now you'd think that would be old enough that they'd not assume they were responsible for our marital problems, right? Wrong!! They were disappointed in their dad, sad for me & for what I was going through but sooo relieved it wasn't their fault. They had assumed all their little teenage dramas and traumas were driving us apart.

The kids know something is wrong. Kids of all ages assume it's their fault.

Don't teach them to be honest and then you lie to them.

Tell them the truth.

I understand you want to lie to your children and help enable your husbands cheating.
I see little hope for your marriage long term.

Believe me I am trying to take on board all the posts I've read. I'm trying to figure out how do I tell them, how much do I tell them,I look at them and they are so tiny and innocent. My brain is in turmoil!! I think I have already made the decision to do it, I just can't get it out. I know that makes me weak!

It doesn't make you weak.
Any parent would dread the conversation.

You pick a time when WH is not around and tell the children you need to tell them something which will be difficult for them to hear but that they need to know. You say that you have already told them that Mom and Dad are having problems and trying to work them out. The problem you two are having is that Dad has been dating another woman. Married men should only date their wife. You are upset about it and hoping that Dad will not date anyone but you. You tell the children that they should know this since they are having to witness the pain you are in and you respect them enough to let them know the truth of the situation.

Yes, the kids will be upset. Darn it. That is the truth.
But, sooner rather than later they will know the story of their life and be able to get a handle on it.

My oldest child had no obvious response.
My middle child had to see a counselor for a few weeks (she was so angry at her father).
My youngest appreciated the facts of his life and has been the biggest trooper of all.

BTW, my WH (now my exH) had no real reaction to the kids hearing about the affair. Mostly, he was concerned about his OW being upset about her adultery being known by people in general.

And you tell them who the OW is by name. You don't want them wondering if every random woman that passes them could be OW and it also helps to ensure that OW can't ever come around them since they will know who she is. She is an enemy to your family and your children so identify her as you would any person you wanted your children to stay away from.

Jules - you wouldn't be human if you did not feel weak right now. We are here with you.

You can't wait until you feel strong. That isn't going to happen. You have to do this as bravely as you did exposure - while your hands are shaking.

You tell them: "Dad has a girlfriend and he wants to be with her instead of at home with me. That is why I have been so sad.

"I still love Dad and want him to stop seeing his girlfriend and come home. We all still love him.

"Her name is xxxx. She is Dad's cousin. This is her picture (if you have it). She is not allowed to see you so tell me straight away if you see her anywhere.

"You can ask me anything and I will tell you the truth."

(This last bit reassures them, stops them blaming themselves when Dad is being furious or weird and it also means if they have seen or heard anything worrying affair-related you can draw it out of them and find out).

I see your children are 8 and 9. I would be amazed if they didn't already know SOMETHING. But it must be very confusing bits and pieces.

You three are the main victims. You need to talk it out and hug it out - you three need each other like oxygen. They don't need to hear about adults having vague confusing problems and being too clueless to get along with each other.

They need to know they have ONE sane honest parent who knows what is going on and who is going to tell them the truth.

One of my favourite posts about exposure to children:



Whatever you do it is better than leaving them to find out on their own. It's something that happens quite a lot.

hi guys its over a week since i last posted, and lots happened. Last tuesday i recieved vile phone messages from ow it really shook me, calling me names and threatening me because i told her family about affair,this gave me a kick up the backside so wednesday i told my children. it went better than expected!! they asked wh a few questions when he came home from work and he was upset that they knew but said if i feel its best then what can he do! i think he feels like im purposely trying to hurt him.
i have been reading some old threads and it seems in most of the situations like mine the wh moved out, mine never did, on dday (7 weeks ago)i sat up all night on this website gathered as much info about affairs as i could and we talked about it.
He has been adamant he wants to stay, and adamant the affair is over, i still snoop and i have other people snooping to, i think it is over but obviously i still have doubts.
i dont know if i have done the right thing by letting him stay and not having that time apart to sort out our feelings!
we are getting on relatively well but he gets upset over the 'not in love' feeling. i know he's not attracted to me right now i can feel it. is this normal because it sure does not feel normal!
Also me and the kids have a trip planned to the u.k at the end of july and wh is not coming because of work, this worries me alot even though the trip was planned ages ago it now feels like i should not leave him alone.
i have been meeting up with friends more lately, he encourages me to go and socialise something that i gave up doing for a long time but he never asks me how my night went, its like he has no interest.
im also meeting a friend tomorrow to discuss a course i want to do (which i have also put off for a long time)i am feeling much stronger but dont know if im heading in the right direction with him i feel like im getting nothing back. we are spending more time together, he is coming home from work early and taking sundays off (he works for himself and this is his busy time of year) and i know that kills him letting work pile up.
i know its gonna take time and work especially when he is not a talker and never has been so its painfully hard getting him to open up.
thanks guys.

Great job telling the children.

Now tell the police about her threatening phone call.

jules, your H is playing you, just as mine did me. He has no intention of leaving you, but he will let this woman contact him and he will go right back to the affair when she does. I lived this myself, and I've seen it so many times on here that I am expert at spotting it.

You can't leave him to go to the UK. Cancel the trip. Also, stop going out with friends. You are showing your H that you can lead an independent life, and that you are not too unhappy...and that is exactly what he WANTS to see. your growing independence will justify his independence.

This OW is his cousin, correct? How far from your town does she live? Does she live in ireland? Is she single? If so, she is harder to shake off. Do not give her space to invade your marriage.

I think that you cannot just continue living where you live, and your H working where he works, making no changes to escape this affair. I think you need a complete lifestyle change. I didn't do that, and that created big problems for me.

hi sugarcane
for 7 weeks my h has been here everynight from 6pm onwards, not 1 night out and i know ow works and would not be home before 6. she does not live in our town.
but it does worry me that im being played i did consider spyware for his phone, i dont know much about it but it has been mentioned on here a few times.
if the affair was truely over surely i would be seeing a change in him by now.
the last message he got from her was over 2 weeks ago, he showed me it and it was nasty.she was blaming him for everything and causing chaos in her life but is that worth anything really!

Julies

You wrote, He has been adamant he wants to stay, and adamant the affair is over, i still snoop and i have other people snooping to, i think it is over but obviously i still have doubts.

One of the major themes on MB is that an affair is never really over, Dr Harley is adamant that no contact has to be life long. It�s a bit like how an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic, they might stop drinking, but the urge and the addiction remain. This thinking would also apply to old boyfriends of yours btw, you can never have contact with those either because of the emotional connection and memories.

I can say personally that when my W and OM2 met again after 20+ years, OM2 responded as if he had met a long lost love.

Gamma

Julesm

Why are you having doubts about the affair being over? When my fwh ended his A, I was certain he was done because I had access to everything. There was no way I would miss something. You need to install spyware on his cellphone today. Don't wait another day.

Also, I saw no withdrawal sign from my WH either. I asked Dr. H and he said that As can be anywhere in the spectrum from soul-mates to just a fling. I believe my H's A was in the low end of the spectrum and maybe that explains why I didn't see withdrawal. However, it took him nearly 6mos for the fog to lift. It was very clear the day the fog lifted.

How is your UA time?

I second what sugarcane said, cancel the trip.

Hi
I do have access to everything and there is no sign of ow but I still worry. I have seen a difference in his personality he was like a ticking time bomb when he was having the A that's what alerted me in the first place. He is more interactive at home now and more like the man I know, I don't want to be no ones fool again so I don't want to let my guard down.

How stupid of you to have tricked them into meeting each other, so that this could happen.

Did your WH writ a no contact letter?

Has he changed all contact information?

hi
yes he did write no contact letter but something is telling me they are still in contact he has not changed his number because of work.could anyone please recommend any kind of spyware i can use without installing it on HIS phone i have spent hours searching the internet!
thanks

how did you cope with 6 months of the fog??

Well done you! Keep talking to the kids and encourage them to keep asking questions.



Beware. The reaction to exposure is a test of sincerity. The more it bothers them, the more they were planning on fooling the kids, introducing them or continuing to lie. His children will forgive him and he should be grateful for that and open with them. Anything less is a warning sign for you to beware.



Do you have spyware (which he doesn't know about) as well as his voluntary transparency? You can check this and over time clean checks will build a feeling of reassurance.

Then I would ask him where he plans on sleeping since his phone number is more important than staying.

If he needs to tell his boss why, so be it.

Deal breaker. Any reluctance to meet any conditions should see you enter Plan B.

He isn't even through withdrawal and if you give him any wiggle room to continue his A he will.

Exposure is a tremendous deterrent but don't count on their shame entirely. Sometimes military waywards risk court martial to resume contact. That's how addictive it is.

This is the checklist. Don't skip anything!


You can't spend nights apart in recovery, but your trip might be a good opportunity to Plan B if you need to.

no i dont have any spyware at the minute.

i think maybe my trip will bring me to plan B because i really dont know what else to do. Our finances are a mess and this scares the hell out of me but i will figure something out. I need the full truth for my own sanity!!

Guys the internet is full of scam spy wear any suggestions?

Have you read through this?

Keylogger Programs

We have a whole forum dedicated to advice on reliable spyware. You need to spend some time reading it. it is called Operation Investigate, and it is located in the forum list, just below this forum.

You wrote:

There is no spyware you can install onto a device without touching the device. However, there are things you can do with iTunes. Have a look in that forum.

I don't know what you mean by this.

First, we have told you not to take a trip away from home without your husband. If you do that, you are leaving the door wide open for the affair. We told you to cancel the trip.

Second, a "trip" cannot be used as Plan B. A "trip", by definition, is a return journey; i.e., you plan to go back. You cannot go to the UK for, say, a month, and not talk to him during that time, and call that Plan B, and then go back to Ireland and continue your marriage.

If and when you decide that Plan B is appropriate, you need to plan to leave your home for good.

Plan B is a risky strategy. It carries no guarantee that the unfaithful spouse will be brought to his knees, beg you to go back, and promise to do whatever you ask in the way of ending the affair and transparency. There is every chance that your spouse will use your absence and silence as a means to continue his affair, and in doing so, make the affair more entrenched.

Having said that, I think that, Plan B in the case of a cake-eating husband who has no intention of leaving his wife for his whore, and who wants his marriage very much, is very likely to likely to bring about a crisis in the affair. The OW, on hearing that the wife has left, will assume that WH will move things forward with her. When he does not do that, because he knows how insane the affair always was, she will become bitter and angry. She might not go away for some time, but she will be forced to see that she has been used. Her anger will be a great turn-off for the WH and the affair will be in crisis.

However, you do not know for sure how your H feels about his marriage and his OW. You do not know that he will admit to his OW that she is the last person he would want to marry. He might continue to see her until the affair dies a lengthier death (it will die, eventually, because it is unsustainable). And while he continues to see her, and accepts (temporarily, until the affair dies) that his marriage is over, you will need to continue in Plan B, which you won't be able to do if you only took a "trip" to your parents' home, unless you later make frantic plans to place your kids in UK schools, see a lawyer about child support, and all other necessary details, when you realise that the trip deadline is up and the affair has not finished.

If you intend to do Plan B, you must do it properly. If you move completely out of your home area, you need to sort out schools for the kids (or educate them at home). If you give up their current school places, you need to accept that you might not get them back. You need to see a lawyer and get child maintenance in place. You need to sort out a secure bank account. You need to officially change your address with various authorities.

Of great importance is the fact that you should not take your kids out of the country if you have no intention of bringing them back, when their father asks them to, if the affair has not finished. If he goes to law when you do not bring them back, you will find yourself in the middle of a child abduction case.

There is more to say, but I'll end this post now, as it is long enough already.

jules, I am going to refer you to the thread that made me start posting on MB.

It concerned someone who became a dear friend of mine, tully. Her case came to mind immediately I read yours, because she lived in France but was Irish, and she took her children to Ireland in Plan B, and her H took them back. It was only when she had been in Ireland for several weeks that the implications of having taken her children against her H's will became apparent.

This is a very long read, and painful to me because I was not at all sane when I wrote my own story at length on tully's thread - but reading it will help you understand how I know the behaviour of the cake-eating WH, and you can see, from my own mad ramblings, the harm that was done to me by the repeated D Days. You can also see the harm that was done to tully and her children by her cake-eating H, and how an international Plan B collapsed because of lack of proper legal planning.

As you will see, Plan B in her case did not bring the marriage back together; it led her H to choose OW, and that was my point in the email above. However, the alternative of living with a WH who is openly screwing a whore and going home to his family each night is intolerable, and that is why a woman must go to Plan B early.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2144565&page=1

If you decide to go to Plan B (and you MUST do so if the affair continues), and if you want to go back home with the kids, you should first, try and persuade your H to let you take the children to the UK. You will have to appeal to his goodwill, and explain to him how the affair is harming your health, and how you need family support. In short, you'll have to beg him to be compassionate to you, when he might not feel compassionate at all.

If he will not agree, you can see a lawyer about taking them legally, but I think you must assume that this would take months. A judge would have to weigh your health and well-being against the children's needs to see their father, and you must be aware that legal systems tend be be neutral about the issue of adultery. Adultery alone will not persuade a judge that your children will be better off not seeing their father weekly.

Meanwhile, you should either ask your H to move out, or if you would rather leave, arrange to move yourself, while staying in Ireland.

There are difficulties involved when you bring up your kids in a different country from your home country, when a marriage breaks down. It's fine if, as in one case I know, the mother feels that life in the new country is great for her and the kids, and she wants to keep the kids in their familiar environment, and close to their father. It's when she does not want to stay in that country, and she wants to take the kids and go home, that judges and international conventions need to be brought into play, and things become difficult.

How many of the checklist items has he agreed to Jules?

Sounds like he's protective over his phone still?

If you have a reluctant, foot dragging wayward who you sense is still in his affair, I would suggest you visit a lawyer at the earliest opportunity so you know what your options are in all eventualities.

It's an important Plan B preparation for anyone but given the complications Sugar Cane has highlighted it makes sense for you to be ahead of the game and know where you need to steer him.

It could be an epic fail to leave on this trip, if you will be forced to return. Not only will his affair probably restart, but he could have the locks changed in your absence, move her in, and you would be forced to find new lodgings for yourself and the children in Ireland.

hi guys
thanks for the posts.I just want to clear up the comment i made about my trip to the u.k, i have no intentions of taking my children away from their father without consent, he knows we are planning a trip to 'visit' my family i just meant if he is not fully on board with our marriage by then, then while we are away would be good time for him to pack up and find somewhere else to live.

I am totally paranoid and confused at the moment about 'recovery'.

my h has had no contact with ow for 5 weeks apart from 1 missed call on the night she rang me full of abuse regarding me telling her brothers about A, he did not answer the call or call her back and we blocked her number after that.
I have full access to his phone and e.mails and finances, he fully understands that the only 1 that can delete history off these is me.
He is home early every evening for the past 7 weeks and has gone nowhere else.
He is becoming more relaxed at home and enjoying family life more.
He calls me during the day for a chat (which had stopped when he was having A)
If i call to his workshop when im passing, he will ask me to stay for a coffee and chat (which had also stopped)
He will call me when he is leaving work.
He will tell me about his day or share funny stories (also had stopped)
I catch him looking at me when im getting dressed (also had stopped)
He is calling into his mother's house for a cuppa (which had stopped completely)
I understand these are all small examples of his behaviour, but i seem to analyse every move he makes!!
Is this the start of recovery????

As for me, i have just come back from the doctors, i have a genetic disorder that accelerates in women once they pass 40. I am 41 and can already see this happening. i recieved results which mean i have to fly to a research facility in Liverpool and have my body mapped so i can recieve trial medication to stop my bones and cartlidge from crumbling, it will also affect my mental state.
I dont know when i have to go, but i do have to go.If they get me in quick what am suppossed to do? not go just incase he rings OW.
The doctor also put me on anti-deppresants he seems to think lack of proper sleep is also bringing me down.

hi sugarcane
thanks for the link, i am in the middle of reading it.

Why isn't he going with you?

the research facility is going to fly me over and i have to stay there. he needs to look after the kids.

jules, please think about this. How would a wayward behave, who has been discovered and wants to keep his marriage together, and also wants to keep his affair?

Would he behave as he did before he was discovered? Would he be cross, rude, distracted and absent, as he was then, or would he try harder to present a facade of being all-in?

A lot of couples go through what is called "hysterical bonding" after D Day. I don't know that this phenomenon is properly understood, but some couples "bond" like jackrabbits on Viagra for several weeks, and even months. My H and I went through that phase, and it lasted about a year after D Day 1, when I believed the affair to be over, and even longer after D Day 2 and the many D Days that followed my rediscovery of the affair, until my H gave up his travelling job.

I lost a lot of weight, and did 3-4 mile runs 5 times a week, after I rediscovered the affair (D Day 2 and more). I looked fantastic. In between crying and not sleeping, I couldn't keep my hands off my H, nor he off me, and he was a very happy man. I had many of the signs from him that you list above. They meant nothing at all in terms of the affair being over; it wasn't.

Many men are quite able to love and be happy with two women. Most women can't do that, and so they cannot keep up a facade with their H's for long during an affair, but many men can do that; indeed, it might not be a facade, because they are genuinely happy having two devoted women in their beds, and more sex than they ever had when they were single, and more sex than most men they know are getting now. Sex with two women is a fantasy come true, for many. Of course they are happy!

You are arguing with us here, and there really is no need. You can do whatever you feel is best for your situation; you are a grown woman, after all.

We've told you what we know, based on Dr Harley's vast experience, and our own experience in our marriages, about what happens after an affair if you continue to spend nights apart from each other. Your husband hasn't broken his addiction to this woman, and she is an unmarried bunny boiler. If she gets the chance, she will be in your bed, or at the nearest hotel, before your anaesthetist can say "count backwards from 10".

You can take the risk of the affair reigniting if you are not prepared to accept our advice, and Dr Harley's - or perhaps you don't think that there is any risk. Well, we know that the risk is high, but there is no point arguing here with us. Do as you think you must.

If you want to take our advice, you could cancel the trip to the UK this summer, or you can insist that your H goes with you for the whole trip. You can make arrangements for someone to stay in your home with your children, or dash them across to your parents, if you get admitted to hospital, while your H accompanies you to Liverpool. You can think strategically about how not to take risks with your marriage - or you can ignore us. It's you life, and your choice.

Jules blocking her number isn't good enough. Change it. Change email. Change everything. She could contact him and retrigger the affair in minutes.

NC letter? Has that been done?

Liverpool - my home town!

You got some real support in exposure - can anyone there help with the kids?

If not, he has to bring them doesn't he? It's unthinkable that on the back of an affair he doesn't accompany his sick wife to her treatment facility.


The whole point of marriage - in sickness and in health!

Do you have family or a friend who could keep the kids? Could they all go? He should really be with you, especially for your major medical testing. He should also never be away over night. In the US there are charities that help families stay together during an illness or major rounding of testing. Is there anything like that in your area?

i dont mean to be argumentitive i'm just p...ed off that i have to treat him like a child, monitoring him, 2nd guessing him and trying to be 1 step ahead all the time.

Sugarcane we are not having sex, and im sure he's not having it with ow.we are certainly not hopping on each other, a cuddle is as far as it goes.
I agree with you guys about my trip to u.k it can be cancelled, as for Liverpool that is a must and because we are broke the whole family coming is not an option right now but i dont even know when i have to go it could be another 3 months away i will find out in the next few weeks.
As for where we are in the 'withdrawl'or 'recovery' i still dont know.
he has told me everything about A
he is remorseful and has taken full responsabilty
he dealt with exposure
he accounts for his time
i have full access to everything
he now talks openly to me instead of dragging everything out him
he is home all the time
no contact for weeks
last time he seen her was 2 months ago

BUT no intimacy between us yet !!!!

I know we have to be alert and watch out for the worst to happen but when can we start thinking, maybe we are heading in the right direction together.

Exchange phones


Also, how can you afford the trip to the UK now but can't for the med stuff? If you cancel the trip, will you get that money back?

It's a bad habit, common in many marriages, to just let your spouse look after themselves. Easier - but not better. Your whole world is wrapped up in your spouse. You talk about the cost of this trip,but have you ever tried paying for a divorce and supporting two households? That's where you are headed unless recover is done right.

EVERY bit. Small deviations allow the addiction to stay alive. You can't be content with an 'it's mostly done'. You do not appreciate how addictive affairs are.


So - changed number? email?

NC letter?

Okay: you are missing my point.

You are not having sex, but you wrote that he is taking more interest in you - you gave a list of the ways. My point was that you cannot count on his seeming to be interested in you as a sign of the affair having ended. I used the example of hysterical bonding while continuing an affair only to show you that men can be VERY "into" their wives and be "into" their whores at the same time. I was also trying to get you to see that he could be faking this, to cover up the fact that he is still in contact with ho-bag.

You don't have to do any monitoring or second-guessing if you find that unacceptable. You could make the choice to stay with your husband and not do it at all, whatever the consequences turn out to be, or you could decide that this is not a marriage, and leave.

However, you posted here for help, and we are going to tell you what we know, from Dr Harley and ourselves, about affairs. We are not going to tell you that it is okay to take a trip, or go to Liverpool, when we know that OW will not give up on your H easily, and he will not forget her easily. We are trying to stop you from going through the horror of repeat D Days that some of us went through - I can promise you that it is much worse than the first D Day. You can take that advice, or you can leave it.

Neither you nor we know that your H is still in the affair - although you came here on June 2nd posting your doubts about your situation. All we can advise is that you stay vigilant and do not take risks, such as taking a trip away from him.

Get that spyware in place, by the way.

hi sugarcane,
i do understand that he could still be 'playing' me and this is what has me so distressed. he did send no contact letter and he has stuck to it (as far as i know) his e.mails come through me and i check his phone.
Even when he is working out on job i drive by just incase and he is where he says he is.
I cant get money back on flights to u.k and liverpool is funding my flights and time there if im willing to be test subject for new medication.
I guess i was expecting more between us by now and im disheartend.
she lives nearly an hour away thats why i know he is not just nipping round the corner to see her, but i do realise they could be meeting half way.
we have had such open, honest and frank converstions about the A and our marriage and have sobbed in eachothers arms (my h does not do crying) i am getting upset just thinking about it so im gonna go now.
thank you guys for all your support x

This.

As for 'being broke' affairs rape finances. I've seen couples on these forums go horrendously in debt, give up jobs, move. But they go on to do well.

However in your case it's not the affair that makes it so important you stay together at night. That is a must for any married couple. If you split up to tackle these things you will end up permanently split.

Why is there no movement on the checklist items such as changed numbers? Does he refuse?


GPS will let you know what's happening if any secret meet ups.

What does he do for a living? He sounds mobile, which is an issue if she's just an hour away.

He is as aware as you are of how he can reach her. One day he will, if he can. That's how addiction works. Just the possibility of his doing it will drain you anyway.

He could also leave his vehicle somewhere and walk to meet her.

I think you are looking at a move.

I do hope this wasn't you signing off for good.

Have you read this?

False Recovery-Need Voices of Experience

jules, I've seen you online reading tully's thread several times now.

I hope you can see from it the many stories of BSs that were fooled by the WSs seeming to go NC, and lying. I hope you can hear in those stories just how addictive the affairs were for the WS, even when the WS did not intend to leave home; they still brought the marriages to destruction.

I hope you can see the importance of spyware, which you have dithered about using. Once she decided to use it, it saved tully from yet another false recovery, and when I decided to use it, it confirmed the 5 year long-distance contact my H maintained with his affair partner in Belgium. It confirmed that they had not met in that period, and that yet, their twice-yearly catch-up phone calls had been enough to maintain the spark of their affair, and when, 5 years later, her H planned to retire and move back to his home country, OW and my H planned to meet in person. That meeting probably would have happened in London on a normal working day (since my H no longer travelled abroad), and I would have been none the wiser when he came home from spending the day in a hotel. (That had already happened a few times during the 3.5-year PA.)

I hope you will see the need for a cast-iron Plan B if you see any signs of the affair continuing (and you MUST look; don't turn a blind eye), and I hope you read the False Recovery thread that Brainy linked for you.

You seem to have decided not to post, and I think this is probably because you feel that you cannot take our advice. I'm sorry, if that is the case. People have taken a lot of their time to try and help you avoid what they went through.

Hi sugarcane
I have been reading a lot on mb and trying to absorb all the information. Tully's thread is heartbreaking but something I need to know.
I did get voice activated recorder and discovered nothing, I am sure there has been no contact for 2 weeks now so I'm trying at the moment to get my head around everything that's happened over the last 2 months. We are still at the stage of discussing how we move forward. I am so hurt I don't think I will ever be the same. This scares the hell out of me, I'm taking some time to sort out my own feelings.
I seen how fantastic you guys were to Tully you all really supported her through the most painful time of her life,thank you for the posts I received , I hope to post again soon with more detail.
Thanks guys

hi sugarcane,
you guys on MB definitely know your stuff and how to smell a rat from a 1000 miles away.
Last night after posting here i decided to check his phone there was messages from yesterday and it all kicked off!!
I asked him to leave that he has broken the NC agreement and he tried to explain the messages away...i know from what was in the messages they have not seen each other for 6weeks or more but i cant tell how much communication they have had over the phone.

He refused to leave the house, so i called his 2 sisters to try and make him see sense, he got very nasty to me which his sisters heard over the phone and he refused to speak to them.

I told him he cant stay that the whole situation with him and his cousin is wrong and makes me feel sick!! his reply was I HAVE MADE HIM FEEL SICK FOR A LONG TIME!!! this bloody hurt, our marriage was no where near that bad before A.

All hell has broken loose his 2 sisters have rang her and told her exactly what they think of her contacting him, her response quite frankly is not normal ow said they should be taking there brothers side and not mine!!!

I have nowhere to move to and no money so he has to move out and do the right thing but when that will be i dont know. But maybe with pressure from his family it will be as soon as possible.

He is at work (my spys have checked) and i am at home trying to calm myself down before i have to take my 2 kids to dental appointment.

I only finished Tullys thread yesterday and can see how my H's personality is very like her WH.

Its all very sad.

thankyou sugarcane for pointing me to Tullys amazing life and strength.

Ooooh, jules, I'm so sorry...

We all knew this was happening. Almost no wayward stops contact just like that, when they have been discovered. I have read so many stories stories, and lived my own, where the first thing the waywards do is contact each other and work out to way to keep in contact secretly. I don't believe they ever, ever stop cold turkey. (I can't prove that, of course.)

What kids of things did the messages say? Were they planning to meet again?

He can't seriously refuse to move out. He can't genuinely think that he can live with his wife and have an affair - that this is his right.

You need to get an emergency locksmith out and change the locks before he gets home from work. Also, pack a bag with his basic necessities and leave it on the doorstep.

You and the kids need to be home when he comes back from work, because he will try to smash the door down, and you need to be there to call the police. If he doesn't try to do that, he will call the police himself - but I highly doubt that. He is probably legally entitled to smash his own front door to get into the house that he legally owns or rents, but is he going to continue doing that when the police arrive and you and the kids are terrified?

If he calls the police without trying to force his way in, you will need to explain what is going on, and dare them and him to force you to let him in. My guess is that he will be too ashamed to have that confrontation in front of other people on your doorstep, and will leave.

You also need to book an emergency meeting with a lawyer. You need to arrange maintenance and child support, now that he is no longer living there.

Please get moving on these things right away, especially the lock change.

Jules, so sorry my darling but at least now the uncertainty is over.


Call a locksmith and have his things sent to his family. He was only being nice because he thought he could continue contact secretly. Now he knows you mean business he will be very abusive and hurtful so he needs putting out in the cold where he can't hurt you.

In changing the locks, he can still legally break in but have some family stay with you to deter him. Most don't try. Call the police if he does too. He won't want to stick around and explain he us a cheating husband.

Jules, if you're fighting with him and describing the A as sick then contact has now become unproductive. He has given you so much pain it is now impossible for you to be cool and calm and avoid lovebusting.

Just go into Plan B and protect yourself. Let him discover for himself how sick and dysfunctional it is.

Never! You are half his addiction, he's going nowhere voluntarily. Make it so.

I just wanted to add it was very smart to call in your supporters to do most of the ear bashing! Using exposure to the max...

I've seen you online, jules. Please report in.

Hi guys
He has refused to move out and is still living here our house has complicated story attached to it with inheritance tax outstanding and his brother owning half.
Anyway bottom line is 'everybody' is seriously on there backs, he knows I've been to get advice and is terrified of now facing the possibility of loosing everything. I haven't spoken to him, but I have heard him pacing around the house in the early hours of the morning.
I'm sure ow will be putting even more pressure on him now because she is completely out in the cold with her family and her teenage daughter now knows . Ow had the cheek to message me today to find out what's happening!!!! I forwarded these messages on to wh and he went crazy (with her).

The messages I found on Thursday evening were from ow asking how he was and that it's been a few weeks now and could he give her a call
Wh's response was he was busy and had his son at work with him for the day.
Not much really but enough for me to realise there is still contact.

I'm hoping things will move along more after weekend when I'm in with the welfare office to find out what I'm entitled to and if they can help with the complicated situation with the house.

I'm heading to bed now, nice and early I'm as weak as a kitten and need to keep my strength up!!
Love to all you guys x

No sooner said than done! Thanks, jules.

You need to see a lawyer to find out how to get him put out of the house. Please don't put off doing that.

Do you have the right to put the house up for sale? Do you have equal rights to your half of it? Does the brother actually own half of the house - as in having his name on the titles deed, or is it that he is waiting for his half of the inheritance money? You need to ask a lawyer how you can put the house up for sale and get your share of the assets. you need to be proactive about changing this situation, jules. You cannot just live there with him because he refuses to get out.

Don't forward her messages to him. Why are are you encouraging contact between them?

Both your phone numbers should have been changed by now. I know he won't agree to this request - but you can do it for your own phone. How dare she contact you, and you are allowing it!

How do you know he went crazy with her? Do you have spyware on his phone yet? If not, will you ever be able to get hold of it now? How about when he's in the shower?

Can you hide a voice recorder in the room where he sleeps?

Jules just lock him out!


He can figure it all out on his own time. For now, if he can, he will drag you down and resolve his problems by taking you out of your senses.

What is the delay in calling a locksmith?

The first rule of Plan B is to not worry about where he will stay. If he can figure out how to have an affair he can figure out this.

His being worried and fretful is not a positive sign. It is a sign he still wants both you and her. He's worried because he can't stop.

There would be no need to worry about rebuilding his marriage if he were all in.

So let him see a lawyer about it after you've kicked him out. It's a civil matter that would take ages to resolve. More than enough time to find another place and quite possibly the A will be dead by then anyway.

Your letter will show that you aren't excluding him from the house - simply asking him to end his affair before he comes home again.

Exactly! All waywards refuse to get out!

hi guys
thanks for all the posts, firstly i know he went crazy at her because his sister could hear him in the shed so she eavesdropped for a while.
As for the situation with the house, the deeds to the house are still in the solicitors hands, our names do not go on the deeds until the inheritance tax is paid in full from wh and his brother so all we have is his aunts will stating the house is left to wh and brother my name appears nowhere. we are only allowed to live in the house because we were renovating it.

I could put spyware into his shed i have a key!

I am waiting on a call back from the 'marriage in crisis' crowd they give free legal advice in difficult marriage/seperation cases.

Saturday and sunday he was acting very weird like nothing was wrong! not that i seen much of him, i kept the kids busy and away from the bizarre atmosphere.

My little boy refused to go to school today he was very upset so i need to set up a meeting with his teacher and sort that situation out.
My friend owns a creche and i have to cover for her for the rest of today as she is recovering from cancer and has appointments she needs to attend, so i will be busy for the rest of the day.

I will check back in with you guys later with any updates.

Still cant believe this has happened!!!! But onwards and upwards as us British like to say.
xx

forgot to say i really feel like is love for me is gone! just cant believe the respect he had for me as a mother and his friend has disappeared so quickly but apparently it has.

So bloody sad!!!

I remember XH solemnly telling me I was not a good mother out of the blue one day. Then I found out about the Fat Slag (a 45 year old childless ex felon). He was clearly reinventing history. They all do it. Actually men do not lose love easily. His current behaviour is called 'the fog'. He has been invaded by aliens. Ignore everything that comes out of his mouth.

hi livingwell
His older sister said the same thing 'ignore everything that comes out of his mouth for a while' easier said than done but good advice.

His mother is going to sit down with him and appeal to his rational side (if he still has one) to move out before the children see the police becoming involved and whats now a mess will turn into a free for all with the whole village watching!!

This may work because most of his work (steel fabrication & building) comes from the village, his workshop is only 10min drive from our house.

It amazes me the things people have been through here on MB, the way their waywards changed into people we just don't know anymore.
xx

Jules, you can't really sit and wait this one out and ignore the rough stuff. Appealing to his rational side won't work either because he doesn't have one.

Losing business? Cheats will risk military court martial and losing their families to get one more hit of the OP.

The only thing that works is a natural death of the A. Your exposure has stripped it of romance so it is now on a downward spiral. One day there will be no 'hit' there. An empty bottle. However as long as you are around, the abuse and blame will be directed at you and they can console each other and team up on you.


Get out of the storm. If he becomes remorseful you will be rested, unabused and have less resentment for recovery.

And your kids will have a sane parent!

Update, jules? How are you?

Hello Jules, I feel so sorry for you. Although I only registered recently, I started reading on the forum years ago and have listened to hundereds of radio shows. Everything Dr. Harley says is not just good advice, but thoroughly researched and proven to be true. You can do the research yourself or just trust me on this one. Trusting Dr. Harley might save you a lot of time

You are not here for a walk on the beach, you are here to finish a triathlon. Untrained. Luckily the veterans are here to guide you and tell you what to do or don't.

I want to give you a glimpse in the mind of an affair partner. Although I don't consider myself an affair "partner" (I didn't know the truth), to my surprise and disgust, my mind wanted to take me down that road.

The reason I found this site (I visited many other sites, but this is the best one) was I found out the man I would have gladly spent the rest of my life with and who I wanted to be the father of my children, forgot to tell me about his wife and child (lost love, found eachother again and rekindled our love, but in between he got married).

I was devastated, disgusted and sick to my stomach, because adultery is against every moral instinct that I have. The mere thought of him betraying his wife and babyson with me left me awake many nights, feeling sick to my stomach. I informed her pastor who promised to inform her and guide her dealing with this.

As time went by, I started missing him so bad, it hurt. I found myself smiling when a memory popped up and right after that, got sick to my stomach because I would think of his wife and kid. Everytime I saw the type of car he was driving, I was trigered into thinking about him. Having a cup of coffee triggered memories of us drinking coffee together. If I drove to work, near a certain curve in the road, his name popped up in my head and triggered a smile on my face before I realized it.
My mind played tricks on me. What if he files for divorce? What if I seduce him and get pregnant? I knew he would have a hard time forgetting me and the only thing I had to do was as simple as snap my fingers and he would run to me.

This totally confused me, I never would have thought I could still feel love for an adulterer who also had betrayed me. But I did. I always kept my distance with married men, never fancied one and I never understood how married people could cheat. Never in a million years I could have imagined myself being drawn to a man who had betrayed his wife. With me.

All of a sudden I found myself totally addicted and tempted to do just the thing I never could have imagined. Thank God I never gave in and never contacted him again. But I really, really, really wanted to. Badly.

Your man knew he was married when he started his affair, so did his AP. Your man and his AP knew it would hurt you, but still continued. Expect them to experience the same as I did: they will be triggered. "Good" memories of the OW will pop up in his mind. There will be times he seems a good man on the path of recovery, but there will be times he is as crazy as all waywards get. Don't believe it when he says it is all over, get proof. Words that come out of his mouth can't be trusted. Trust actions. And most importantly, it will take a certain amount of time for your husband to get normal. He still is in the fog, he still is a heroin addict craving for his shot. He won't turn into your loving husband overnight. Follow the plan and he will, eventually. For now, remember he is a stranger/cheater/adulterer in your husbands body. He might look like the man you once knew, but he isn't. SAA is like exorcism for adulterers.

You are only at the beginning of your triathlon. It is hard, but you will make it to the finish. The advice given here is the best advice you wil get. The faster you follow it, the sooner this will be all behind you. If you don't follow all of the advice, it is more likely to get false recovery, which will only lead to more pain. If you absorb SAA and follow this plan of recovery, you will get there with as little pain as possible as fast as possible.

Also, if recovery isn't possible, this plan is designed to guide you throuhg this with as little pain as possible. Which will still be more than anyone should ever have to suffer.

Follow the plan to the letter, no short-cuts. You will regret it if you skip parts. You will have to start again if you find out (again) he and the OW are still in contact and that will cause you even more pain. Better do it one time and do it good.

Goody2hoes, what wonderful advice.

And thank you for sharing your story as the "other woman who didn't know she was the other woman." You did the right thing in spite of the pain. Strength of character matters for something in this world, and you had enough self-respect and respect for his wife and child to walk away cleanly from a situation that could not have possibly had a good ending for you.

How are things with you, jules?

hi sugarcane and indiegirl,
Im so sorry it has taken me so long to update you guys, thanks for the patience.
I was in the middle of the storm!
Everything exploded about 6 weeks ago and boy did she show her true colours, she dosent want my wh but she didnt want anyone else to have him either. I seen a shift in my husband even the language he used when talking about her changed.

We went on the trip to the uk to visit my family my wh came to but we were not like husband and wife it was all very weird and awkward! But me and the kids had a lovely time.

So this is were im at now, contact is gone, we have swapped phones a couple of times and im also keeping up with the snooping, he tells me where he is going and i check!

My dilemma is he is so quiet, with me the kids, his own family, friends, everyone really.

Is this depression or does he just not want to be here with us??
Im at the point now were i need some love from my h im running out of steam.
His sisters keep telling me im 3quarters of the way there and not to give up now they have faith that they have seen a change to.

Its like he is empty!I dont know what else i can do, wait it out or leave.

We have had sex once, before it he promised he would never hurt me again. but since then nothing.

You guys know the pattern, maybe im being played again, i dont know anymore i thought i would feel more love from him, then i tell myself to be paitent.

He knows i will not be made a fool of again, he has also seen how strong i am now and i think he resents me a little for being so strong and no longer needing or depending on him so much.
Thanks guys xxxx

hi goody2shoes
thanks for your post im only reading it now. you are right in everything you say he is behaving like an addict and completely feeling sorry for himself. my wh was never one to sit around moping but he looks miserable and that really hurts.
I dont know how it will all end but im trying my best and thats all i can do. Im keeping myself busy and so is he but not together, no matter how much i try we just find it hard being around each other. xxx

Has your WH sent her a NC letter?

Has he changed all his contact information?

Are you going into Plan B?

hi brainhurts
yes n/c letter was sent
he still has the same contact details but i have access.
i am not going into plan b just yet.

my feeling is, there has been no contact for the last 4 weeks [it got very messy towards the end]but i think he is pineing for her.
He is also moping around like he has just had a slap in the face[which is what i feel like doing].
If i find out there is still contact i will move out with the kid[if he refuses to go]

I think at the minute the thought of his family and friends judging him is killing him. Tough luck thats what happens when you cheat and lie.

xx

Jules, I haven't followed your thread all the way through, but I will just tell you that his leaving his contact information the same will doom your chances. All it takes is one contact from the OW and the affair will be back on. He should change his phone # and email address and any other method the OW used to contact him.

Having access to his cell and email will not prevent that.

Hi melodylane
He wont change his mobile phone number because of work [lame i know] his e.mails come through me and he rarely uses the computer.

To be honest i am tired of it all,we will have a good day when i get a glimpse of h then he is gone again.
I have also changed alot, meditation and excercise have really helped me [he has put on alot of weight over the last month]

I have also been doing alot of stuff around the house, we need to sell this place and split the profit between us and h's brother. We have 1 wall left to knock down and a few walls to plaster, he keeps coming up with excuses not to do it just yet. I think the reason for this is he's worried when we do sell am i going to just ask for my share and head off with the kids. He keeps looking for houses on the market that will suit us as a family! That confuses me as he is still making no effort in the marriage.

Im sure everybodys 'affair' situation is a little different but the outcome is the same, husband gets a grip and really tries or goes back to ow. The wife gets really strong and thinks 'i deserve better than this crap'or is able to follow mb's rules with the wh on board and give the marriage a chance to heal.

I dont know how to get him on board when it seems he wants to be left in his own little world.
xx

This would be a deal breaker. He can get a new phone #. As long as she can contact him, you are never safe. That is not negotiable and you shouldn't stand for it.


Strength is a choice, though. So our general advice to betrayed wives is that they stay in Plan A for 3 weeks and if the WS does not meet the conditions for recovery, they should go into Plan B. Your spouse is not doing anything.


Plan B would the logical next step. I would give him your list of conditions, which would be: change his contact information and commit to a program of recovery that restores the love in your marriage or move out. If you remain in a situation with a spouse that refuses to take the necessary steps for recovery, you are just setting yourself up for emotional and physical ailments along with the inevitable future affairs. Don't set yourself up for that.

By staying with him while he refuses to make just compensation, you are actually making it LESS LIKELY your marriage will ever recover. The reason is because you are giving him the impression you will accept him on any terms, which removes any motivation he would have to step up. And you are eroding your mental and physical health, which makes you much less attractive. You have lowered the bar SO LOW that he is just living DOWN to your expectations, making recovery impossible.

I would oblige him in this respect. If he only wants to be in his little world, he can move out for that and leave you in peace.

He's definitely not on board, I thought this is what maybe lots of people go through when the affair has ended and the wh is in some kind of depression, but obviously he is just dragging his feet. I've tried to give him space and not smoother him and let him come to terms with everything that's happened and for me to build my strength back up. I guess it's time for me to kick his [censored], I have held off because the Harley's say while they are still in withdrawal and fog try to just be 'here' some withdrawal periods can be longer than others.

He his home now in bad form and cranky! Me and the kids where laughing and joking and he's just sitting there!!
I think we are happier when he is not around......that's sad.
Xx

There is a big difference between being in withdrawal and refusing to do anything to recover the marriage. It is an expectation that most WS will be in withdrawal. That doesn't mean they don't have to do anything to recover the marriage.


So far, he is driving the ship here, and as long as that continues your marriage will stay in the ditch. You won't build strength at all; this scenario will further erode your strength. This is why Dr Harley is adamant that Plan A only lasts 3 weeks for women. It can be emotionally devastating for women and can cause lasting damage.

To put it another way, not having a plan in place is a plan to fail.

Set him down and explain to him that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell him you are willing to give him an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OW for life, changing all contact information

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

Tell him "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe.

He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless he makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if he won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

Unless you use this program to create a much better marriage than the one you had before the affair, you are likely looking at repeat affairs. So don't even think you can get away with sweeping the affair under the rug and going back to what you had before. What you had before led to the affair!

hi melodylane
you are so right he has been steering the ship for to long. saturday i gave him a talking to, i have held my tongue for so long it felt good to give him a few home truths! i didnt shout or argue, just told him how miserable he's been, that he is dragging me down and in short has been a spineless selfish twat.
he agreed and basically said he dosent know where to start with making things right between us, he has been working long hours because he thinks we are happier without him ( pure selfpity) i basically told him boo hoo! get a grip and start working for our marriage to work.

So sunday came, he was here and present for a change, even came on a family walk (this is a 1st)so we had an ok day.
sunday evening i gave him my list of what he needs to do for our marriage to work. we talked about it and he seems genuinely onboard (but we will see) he said he feels relief that he has something to follow because he feels lost!
so today is monday the start of a new week and hopefully i'll see some changes.
i feel better in myself and thats something, the sun is shining and our niece and nephew are coming over for the day so im going to enjoy some innocent laughter from the kiddo's.
thanks x

That is good news!
Now keep at it and follow the steps from SAA, so you keep on track. Do not let him get away with a couple of halfhearted efforts.

As was said, if you set the bar high, he will live up to your expectations and you will have a great marriage, or if not, you will have lost a spineless selfish twat.

Thanks happyheart
I will keep at it,its been a rollercoaster so far but im staying at the top now.
i have already told him i want our marriage to work(but only if the marriage is a happy place to be) but i dont need to be married to be happy i will do just fine on my own.

Whatever will be will be, i have faith in my future.
xx

If you want to be successful you need to follow the checklist MelodyLane posted

Recovery will not be achieved by compromise. You need to follow all the steps. If you try to meet your WH half way, you will end up with a broken marriage. You will be relegated to the secondary role of meeting those needs that he can not get met from his secret second life.

jules, but there is no plan here. We gave you a plan and - once again - you are not using it. Hope is not a plan. Did he change his phone #s? Email address?

Do you have a plan to start following the MB program by spending 20+ hours of undivided attention time together? I don't know what was achieved by this talk if there is still no plan.

If you want your marriage to change, you have to follow a plan. It really is that simple. Where are you and your h in Surviving an Affair? Are you studying the basic concepts?

Jules,

now that he has said he wants to make it work, you should do as Melody says and work through the checklist. Just saying he will work on it is not enough, because people tend to forget what they said to keep you off their back.

You have done the right thing by confronting him and telling him he needs to step up. Now move it along by rigorously following the program, before you find yourself holding the same speech again next month.

You can do it! Be courageous and don't let up.

hi guys
If i see no change in his attitude should i enter plan b as soon as possible even with very little financial back up? this worries me when i have the children to look after.

xx

Jules, he would have to continue to support you. He can't just stop. I would ask him to move out since he is not doing anything to recover your marriage. Once you get him out, contact a lawyer to make sure he continues to support you. When you get him out, you can go into Plan B.

hi melodylane,
just a quick update, things are not to bad at the minute, i feel like we are on the right track. we have spent more time together over the last 2 weeks than i ever thought possible
we have even had 3 nights out without the kids!! we have not done this for over a year.
i can 'FEEL' a change happening in my h, in me and in the atmosphere at home. i really hope these are all good signs.
i'm so much stronger now i can't believe how easily i confront him, and how much he responds, this was something we could never do {always let things fester} i think we understand eachother now better than we ever have in the past.
thanks for still listening.
x