The reason most counselling is a bad idea is because it is never benign. It is either good medicine with a Plan of how to achieve success or it is a plan to fail.

Good intentions aren't enough. All married people enter marriage with good intentions and only 20 pc end up happy.

If the two of you sit down to talk about the relationship it will lead to a lot of 'whys' and 'whose fault' discussion. So it will be almost impossible to avoid disrespect.

For that very reason Dr H encourages couples avoid drawn out relationship talks in favour of fun dates and pleasant conversation.

Problem solving should be done promptly and on the run in the course of daily life. If one spouse disagrees with a course of action - you don't talk it out, you simply don't do it, raising other ideas instead. If one spouse disagrees with a behaviour, you stop it.

You can't do this program AND traditional counselling because they are polar opposites. Counselling involves a lot of hard work, discussion, and has 100pc emphasis on conflict resolution. Which tends to keep the emphasis on conflict.

MB quickly and actively roots out conflict so 100pc attention can focus on pleasure and building romantic love.

Courting. Courteously. Like we do when dating.

Nobody ever fell in love during counselling.

The other problem is that you go from disregarding your spouses viewpoint to disregarding your own AS WELL. The counsellor becomes the decision maker - but they aren't even in the marriage!

PoJA is about taking BOTH spouses opinions on board each and every time - counselling is about not paying attention to EITHER or taking turns between spouses so one spouse always loses.

Markos - yes and yes. Thanks

So last night was another breakthru. DW isn't as withdrawn as I'd thought once I get her away from the kids. We both have a high need for conversation and it was very good. I tried really hard to not make DJ and to not finish her sentences.

Anyway, I asked her if she was OK with me, and she said our convo the other night really helped. Apparently, much of our issues had begun around misunderstandings. Other stuff had happened on top of that. When we had our first kid so early in marriage, I expressed dissappointment that we didn't get more marriage time to ourselves first. She said she took that as a deep resentment for the kid(s) and that she responded by resenting me/defending the kids and withdrawing more into the lives of the kids.

Other things happened over the years, both positive and negative, but this was still between us. Our convo on wednesday brought up that we had actually felt the same way - we loved the kids, but both felt a little cheated about how life happened to us. I still don't completely understand the distinction in her mind, but that's OK, I trust her on it. She said that she understood me now because I had improved so much in communication over 15 years. I really don't know why she married me back then - I had so many shortcomings, a lot more than now even.

She also said that she had feared I wouldn't support her desire for a college degree and an eventual career. When I expressed my total support, this gave her some peace.

So while I understand why bringing up the past isn't always useful - in this case, it was something my wife felt she needed resolved, and I'm glad we were able to discover these things together.

Marcos, would you mind clarifying this for me? Are these phrases we should avoid?

You wrote..."I statements may help, but are not an excuse for a disrespectful judgment:
I feel like (DJ)
I feel unloved.
I feel like you don't love me."

Are you both listening to the show? Is your wife reading the materials?

It's a backhanded way of telling your spouse what your spouse feels. So, yes, they should be avoided.

So I've been fan clubbing my wife relentlessly for the past three days. Not that this is totally new. She is a beautiful girl and I've always told her that.

But lately I've just found all kinds of other things to praise her for and it doesn't take hardly any effort either.I just feel like she is awesome in general and that I need to let her know that in many different ways.

My husband does the same thing. I try to express what is bothering me and he gives me all the reasons why it shouldn't bother me, or why my feelings are wrong. But I still feel the way I feel.

In the moment I often agree with him too. Because I'm not clear enough yet on how I feel to defend against his logic. Because I don't want to debate him. Because I know he's trying to make me feel better. Because I know he doesn't want to hear about my disappointments with a life that he's a major part of. Because now I feel worse than before I said anything, etc.

If you asked him he probably thinks he convinced me and it's all good. But later when I look back on the conversation I feel misunderstood, manipulated, and resentful.

Thanks Any. I know now that I can't dismiss my wife's concerns when she shares them.

But what am I supposed to do when her concern is that she regrets having kids before she was able to go to college and get a degree and that she thinks part of her might regret getting married because that's what led to having kids? That's not a need I can meet, not at this point. I can't just say "tough cookies you made the choice now live with it". And I'm not going to agree with her that maybewe shouldn't have gotten married. That's how misunderstandings begin that lead to fights and then who knows where could've gone from there.

I know it's the past but she's living with those choices now and that's what's been bothering her for months or longer. Of course I've apologized for My mistake in not using birth control In the first years of marriage. And I've committed to doing everything I can to support her getting her degree as soon as she feel she is ready to start.
But I can't turn back the clock. And I'm certainly not going to apologize for marrying her in the first place.

I am just learning MB myself so I am hesitant to say what you should say/do. I would just say to be careful that you don't get defensive or imply her perspective is flawed.

My instinct is to tell you to listen and tell her you are really glad you married her and wouldn't trade your marriage for the world and you know how important a career is to her and you are 100% supportive of that. (Which is sounds like you have been doing.) But the others who have been posting to you have much more expertise.

I will tell you, if it's any consolation to your DW, I have a career but no children and that is the #1 source of regret in my life and marriage right now. Oh what I would give to go back in time 20 years and be a SAHM... I guess the grass is always greener. (don't say that to her though, that would definitely be disrespectful!)

Fortunately, she can still pursue a career and I think she'll find that entering the work force more experienced and mature she can probably catch up to those her age who put off families pretty fast.

Thanks Any - I will say that our conversation that night was not defensive or confrontational. I'm still I'm not perfect at my listening skills but I'm committed to working hard at listening where it involves her. We did cover a few other topics that night that proved to be huge for her. At any rate, I must have done/said something right based on the fact that we've barely stopped loving on each other for the past 2 days. She is still worn out from all the cr4p going on with our friends and relatives, but its like a switch has flipped.

From something she said today - a big issue that she has been wondering for a long time and dreading the answer was this: She finally asked me during the Wednesday convo if she was really the one I wanted to marry, or just the first girl to say "yes". I simply told her, if I had to do it over again, of any of the others (attempted relationships), I would pick her every time. And the only reason there were others (but nothing serious or physical) after we first met was because she was only 16 at the time and I was several years older, and I wasn't even going to consider the possibility, until one day I woke up and realized that she was now 18 and finished with HS.

Thank God she actually believes my answer, but believe it she did, and its the truth. I love this girl.

This is why eliminating DJs and using PoJA will be invaluable.

There is no need for you to 'agree' with or 'apologise' for her regrets. She has her own opinion and they don't have to align with yours in any way. Or vice versa. Nor is there a need for you to convince her that her feelings are at all wrong in any way.

In PoJA you simply accept that your very different outlooks both have merit by virtue of being there. She is feeling the path she took in marriage hasn't been rewarding; as the sole judge and jury of her feelings - she must be correct.

You feel that just because the marriage hasn't been rewarding for her till now, doesn't mean it can't be. Dr H would agree with you. It would be disrespectful to her to tell her how she is going to feel, but it can't hurt at all to tell her you will try.

You just tell her you want to do everything in your power to make the present GREAT. Tell her you are committed to making her happy in the present.

Try to avoid these types of discussions because they are absolutely useless. You can't change the past but you can change the present. When she brings this up, focus on the PRESENT by telling her what you will do to make her happy.

When someone is happy in the present, their mind doesn't tend to go to disappointments of the past.

So I've read about the POJA, but when is it used in practice? Big stuff/all stuff?

We got into a disagreement last night that I didn't have a change to negotiate. The inlaws were over and they stayed much later than expected. They finally got in the car, then MIL wanted to borrow something for her back pain. DW asked me to help her find it and started looking thru closets, the garage, etc. It was nearly 11 and I was exhausted and didn't feel like searching the whole house for something, but I couldn't just tell my wife that I didn't want to help her MIL because MIL was standing right there and she absolutely would have started crying. Instead I went upstairs and put the kids to bed.

After they found it and left, DW was pissed at me for not helping. What was I supposed to have done differently?

DBack, if you aren't enthusiastic about something your wife wants you to do, it's important to try to find an alternative that you are both enthusiastic about. It's also important to be radically honest: "I am so tired I don't think I can help find that medication. How about I help put the kids to bed?"

Sometimes there's not time to find an alternative, and your wife is going to be disappointed.

Have you told your wife it bothers you to have the in-laws over that late?

Perhaps you should POJA how to handle visitors who stay late.

All stuff.

Yes, that part is worded a little poorly. It's fine to tell your wife what you feel. Don't use it to cloak a disrespectful judgment, though. Sometimes people will conclude that it's not disrespectful to tell your spouse how you feel, and start using it as an excuse to say anything, e.g., "I feel that you are a jerk." "I feel that you are totally wrong." Avoid these.

This is good. Conversation is undoubtedly a top emotional need for your wife. Fifteen hours a week, and practice the friends of good conversation.

One of those friends of good conversation is "developing interest in each other's favorite topics of conversation." Try to explore things to talk about that aren't relationship oriented. They will be much easier for you to talk about without being emotional and disrespectful. As an example, early in our marital recovery one of the big headlines in the news was the marriage of Prince William and Duchess Kate, and we enjoyed reading the news about that together and talking about it. It had no bearing whatsoever on anything; it was just fun and enjoyable conversation. That's what you should be aiming for.

So I suggested that you re-read the friends and enemies of good conversation daily. Are you doing it?

I guess I can accept that.

And yes I did. But it kinda irritates her with I express "bother", especially of something she enjoys.

I'm still trying to get a handle on the concept of when my feelings should matter and when they should just be made a slave to my willpower.