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Can't seem to remedy or WON'T?
From what I'm seeing since you left, it is won't. What is your plan to show your wife she is first. Start with today.
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[quote=DidntQuit]
Your wife has agreed to accept your efforts to make deposits at this point. As Marcos said, spend 30 hours with her and NOBODY else. Will you start scheduling dates with her right now, just like when you first met her? Didnt, Where/when did she agree to 30 hours of something? You are intentionally/unintentionally being oppositional here. She doesn�t have to agree to 30 hrs. It is Your goal. She doesn't have to agree? What, should I just show up and do what? (BTW, our son has baseball games every night this week except Thursday night. So what things are you willing to let him do to fill your love bank? Are you willing to set a schedule like Sugar suggested?
Would you consider the online program now? This way is not going to work. Oh, and also, I would be willing to "let" him do the 110+ pages of things suggested to him on his thread -- the things that he can't remember.
Are you willing? Yes.Sure, pleasant dates I'm all over. I've wanted "dates" for a long time but been rejected. Figure out which days and times work for her, and then make a plan for where you are going. You figured it out when you were dating. Please don�t react to any negativity which comes from her. If she agrees, then she agrees. Show up on time and Move forward with a focus on having fun!! Are you willing to move forward?
Yes.I'm just tired of being the source of all things bad to her. That may be true. But you DO have the power to change this. It is a CHOICE. I made that choice 8 years ago. No one is bad-mouthing her to my family or whatever. Most of the conversation period, is here on the forum. Yes, I screwed up doing that prior to 8 years ago, but not since then. I learned from that back then. We have been here to hold your hand long enough. At this point, you will either decide to make the hard changes or you won't. But please don't tell us that you want to be a "Harley husband" but then not be willing. You are the one who needs to step up and do the right thing in your marriage. [/color] We've both been miserable for years and she's done a good job of explaining to me how we're too different to keep the marriage going. But, sure, I'll not give up. She�s says that hoping that you will disagree or prove her wrong. She is holding out for a glimmer of hope that you care. STOP agreeing with her. Just ignore that baloney. If you were just like her she never would have married you. Wouldn�t marriage be so easy if we all thought the same and acted the same? Not EVER gonna happen. You BOTH need to adjust. So please don�t look at that as an excuse.
I'm working on a mutually agreeable time slot with Steven Harley. Good. Please don�t forget to include your wife in the scheduling. [color:#3333FF]That's what I meant by mutually agreeable. I asked her what time slots to suggest to Steve Harley yesterday.I would suggest that you send a concise email in advance about your perspective of the family issue, and your separated status.[/color] Thanks for the email advice. I will do.
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Can't seem to remedy or WON'T?
From what I'm seeing since you left, it is won't. What is your plan to show your wife she is first. Start with today. Poppy, Cant' seem. It isn't won't. I'm setting up an appointment with Steve Harley per her agreement and my desire for months. Thanks, Remark
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X2.
If R had always put his wife first, she would likely have a close relationship with them. Yes. I agree. That is the really sad, really ironic, really tragic thing about all this. Yes, I agree. I aid early on that my mismanagement of the kids and wife has caused all of this. And it's to a point where JD2D can't forgive and I can't seem to remedy. Remark Remark - give us five ideas of ways you can show up for JD2D.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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You're going to have to choose: your wife or your family. You cannot have both.
It is possible for you to live long term without your family, if you choose to. People do it all the time. Markos did, for awhile, and was prepared to do it for the rest of his life.
It all comes down to what's more important to you. Is your family more important than your wife? Then you need to move on, because recovery of your marriage will be impossible.
I made that decision 8 years ago. I restructured the family thing. Things steadily declined despite it. I eliminated IB as she escalates hers. You understand that, right?
Thanks,
Remark
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You fixed to your satisfaction, not your wife's. That isn't POJA, it isn't addressing the problem.
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What are you expecting from the coaching session?
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You're going to have to choose: your wife or your family. You cannot have both.
It is possible for you to live long term without your family, if you choose to. People do it all the time. Markos did, for awhile, and was prepared to do it for the rest of his life.
It all comes down to what's more important to you. Is your family more important than your wife? Then you need to move on, because recovery of your marriage will be impossible.
I made that decision 8 years ago. I restructured the family thing. Things steadily declined despite it. I eliminated IB as she escalates hers. You understand that, right?
Thanks,
Remark
You have had multiple IBs this week alone. Please stop pointing the finger at your wife. You can only change your own behaviour, so focus on that.
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Remark-
Things can still be turned around if you both put up personal boundaries and have goodwill. It's not just about saving your marriage. It's about building a different, better one where you both win.
When's your appt?
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Remark-
Things can still be turned around if you both put up personal boundaries and have goodwill. It's not just about saving your marriage. It's about building a different, better one where you both win.
When's your appt? Didnt, Appt not set yet. Planning on doing over lunch and composing introductory e-mail you advised. Thanks, Remark
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Remark,
can you tell us about women in your life you admire?
me, DH
all the children
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Didnt,
Appt not set yet. Planning on doing over lunch and composing introductory e-mail you advised.
Thanks,
Remark How would you feel about letting me know when you have it set? Btw, Congratulations on coming to an agreement with Day about counseling with Steve. 
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Remark-
Things can still be turned around if you both put up personal boundaries and have goodwill. It's not just about saving your marriage. It's about building a different, better one where you both win.
When's your appt? Didnt, Appt not set yet. Planning on doing over lunch and composing introductory e-mail you advised. Thanks, Remark
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Remark, don't forget to ask them for an email address letting them know that you would both like to email a perspective summary for Steve to read in advance. Then share that email address with Day.
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Remark,
can you tell us about women in your life you admire?
I admire my stepmother. My mother passed away in 1980 and my father remarried a woman I very much admire and call "Mom".
Of course, I admired my mother who was smart, artistic and musical, but didn't have an ounce of athleticism in her but she followed her athletic husband and sons to many softball games and enjoyed it.
I admire my sister and sisters-in-law (2).
Other than the wives our bible study group, there are many other women that I would categorize as "in my life".
Hope that helps,
Remark
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Yes, I agree. I aid early on that my mismanagement of the kids and wife has caused all of this. And it's to a point where JD2D can't forgive and I can't seem to remedy. As Marcos said, spend 30 hours with her and NOBODY else. Will you start scheduling dates with her right now, just like when you first met her? She doesn't have to agree? What, should I just show up and do what? (BTW, our son has baseball games every night this week except Thursday night. I'm just tired of being the source of all things bad to her. No one is bad-mouthing her to my family or whatever. Most of the conversation period, is here on the forum. Yes, I screwed up doing that prior to 8 years ago, but not since then. I learned from that back then. [/color]
[quote]
We've both been miserable for years and she's done a good job of explaining to me how we're too different to keep the marriage going. But, sure, I'll not give up. Remark, I asked the question because your answers don't signify hope and just made an impression on me "she won't give me a chance anyway, but I will give it a pro forma try to be able to tell the elders in the church that I did everything I could. That and the part where you are making your non-permanent living quarters comfortable, had me thinking that just maybe, you are deliberately sabotaging your marriage. Why would a man who is on the verge of loosing everything, not do all he can to repair the boat of his marriage, if that was all he had to keep him afloat? The only reason I can think of, is, that you either have another option, or that your marriage commitment is just utterly unimportant to you. That is why I asked, to have you think if there are any concious or unconcious other "options" in your life.
me, DH
all the children
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happyheart's quesiton, and Remark's answer, are both regrettable.
happyheart, I don't see what your question has to do with MB - with coaching Remark to practice MB in his marriage.
The question is a set-up (unintentionally, I'm sure) for Remark's failure, because he isn't supposed to focus on "women" - only on his wife. If he focuses on non-familial "women", we will clobber him for dangerous attentions. If he does as he did and limits his answer to women in his family, he is almost certain to talk about someone that JDTD does not get along with. And also, we've asked this sort of question before, and we've seen how bad Remark is at specifying the good qualities of his wife. He is terrible with words on paper, and whatever he answers about her is going to emerge as damning with faint praise. We've see it before! Remark can only fail at a question like this.
And something I saw coming before I got to the end of the reply, was the unnecessary, passive-aggressive dig at JDTD about something she "fails" at - this time softball games - yet AGAIN.
We know that Remark does not appreciate or understand her difficulties with his family, and why she took against what, to him, was just the reasonable behaviour of any average husband - playing sports with his kids, seeing the family up north, Bible study classes. We've seen him pay lip service to understanding, and then sooner or later he repeats what he's said all along - that he doesn't see what the problem is. He did it this week with "God wants us to build family relationships" and he did it above, with softball.
What was that question designed to achieve, in MB terms?
Why don't we leave Remark's powers of expression, and indeed his inner mind, alone and focus on coaching him to act in ways that will woo his wife back to the marriage?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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To clarify: I was talking about this question and answer. Remark,
can you tell us about women in your life you admire?
I admire my stepmother. My mother passed away in 1980 and my father remarried a woman I very much admire and call "Mom".
Of course, I admired my mother who was smart, artistic and musical, but didn't have an ounce of athleticism in her but she followed her athletic husband and sons to many softball games and enjoyed it.
I admire my sister and sisters-in-law (2).
Other than the wives our bible study group, there are many other women that I would categorize as "in my life".
Hope that helps,
Remark
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Yes, I agree. I aid early on that my mismanagement of the kids and wife has caused all of this. And it's to a point where JD2D can't forgive and I can't seem to remedy. [quote=DidntQuit]As Marcos said, spend 30 hours with her and NOBODY else. Will you start scheduling dates with her right now, just like when you first met her? She doesn't have to agree? What, should I just show up and do what? (BTW, our son has baseball games every night this week except Thursday night. I'm just tired of being the source of all things bad to her. No one is bad-mouthing her to my family or whatever. Most of the conversation period, is here on the forum. Yes, I screwed up doing that prior to 8 years ago, but not since then. I learned from that back then. [/color] We've both been miserable for years and she's done a good job of explaining to me how we're too different to keep the marriage going. But, sure, I'll not give up. Remark, I asked the question because your answers don't signify hope and just made an impression on me "she won't give me a chance anyway, but I will give it a pro forma try to be able to tell the elders in the church that I did everything I could. That and the part where you are making your non-permanent living quarters comfortable, had me thinking that just maybe, you are deliberately sabotaging your marriage. Why would a man who is on the verge of loosing everything, not do all he can to repair the boat of his marriage, if that was all he had to keep him afloat? The only reason I can think of, is, that you either have another option, or that your marriage commitment is just utterly unimportant to you. That is why I asked, to have you think if there are any concious or unconcious other "options" in your life.
No, I have no other options. Nothing on the side. I'm working as hard as I can on a marriage that I can only impact so much from my side. JD2D has argued for a long time how miserable she is, that I am NOT what I represented myself to be, and she wants out. I'll never give up. Yet, we settled for a lousy marriage perhaps far too long. I don't know what IB's I'm still doing because I think I've eliminated them. If she is that miserable, I don't want to continue making her miserable. I have that good will for her and she says she has good will for me.
I don't care to be miserable either. I am making the best out of an ugly situation that, yes, I mismanaged over the years.
I want to reconcile, but cannot do it myself or by arguing whenever we're together. Reconciling involves some pleasant times, pleasant conversations. I realize how toxic I am to her right now every time we're together. That's what makes it so difficult as I work on planned activities on which to build a better marriage.
I am not chasing other women, or meet up group activities or whatever, if that's what you're asking. As lonely as it is at times, I'll admit it's nice to come home to a place I don't feel like the enemy and a leper. Heck, we were living alone and apart even under the same roof.
I absolutely want an improved marriage. I will do my part to improve what I can.
Thanks,
Remark
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No you're not.
What is that tripe?
You've been working as hard as you can on a condo for your soon-to-be-divorced self.
That's not working as hard as you can on a marriage.
And, quit fighting. Quit arguing. Quit having heavy, depressing "relationship" conversations. Quit talking about "problems."
Just. Stop. It.
Don't start the conversation.
If she starts the conversation;
"This conversation isn't pleasant... what do you think about the HEAT? Man, it was 108 Saturday..."
State the conversation is unpleasant, and move on.
Quit prioritizing your children.
Son's playing baseball? Sounds like an hour or two for mom and dad to escape... get an ice cream and go for a walk.
Your intact marriage is more important than attendance to EVERY ball game.
Stop making excuses.
And for Pete's sake, stop with the rolling over and dying routine, it's pathetic.
Be a man. Fight for your wife. PURSUE HER.
Charm her, woo her, change her spirit, hypnotize her, set her free, bring her to you!
Make her much more important that freaking bathroom carpets...
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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