Without the 30 hours, all of this is pointless. One date a week will not work, and will be a waste of time.

eventually, yes, but coming out if plan B? I'm still considering doing plan B (will talk to Steve about that perhaps.) If it's 30 hours or plan B, I'll probably choose plan B.

Yes, even if you were coming out of Plan B.

If you're not going to do the 30 hours, you might as well file for divorce. It will be easier for all.

This fact might help you develop some empathy for Remark, who also has trouble recognizing his lovebusters.

I'll talk to Steve or revisit with Willard. I believe I got a different response from him when we talked.

Plus, where did 30 hours come from? Dr. Harley talks of 15.

"Couples" do not go into Plan B. One spouse imposes Plan B to protect herself from an affair, or abuse, or addiction.

To come out of Plan B, that spouse would need to know that the affair, abuse or addiction had ended, and the other spouse was willing to commit to a programme of recovery.

At that point, the spouses normally return to living together, and yes, at least 20 hours of UA time would be required by Dr H, right away, for their recovery. It would be part of the programme of recovery. There would be no point getting back together if one spouse did not want to spend that time with the other.

If you are not interested in a putting a sizeable chunk of UA time at the heart of your separation, then what is your goal with the separation? I asked you earlier today to be honest about your intentions, but you did not respond at all to that part of my post, and decided to throw a temper tantrum.

I have been posting under the assumption that your separation was an attempt to escape the bad behaviour that has dogged your marriage, and for you both to learn how to have a loving relationship. I thought it was a way to try to save your marriage, before you, JDTD, could not take any more of the marriage and filed for divorce. That is why I encouraged you to schedule dates - to which you responded that Remark was too busy working on his condo to go on dates. But now it seems to obstacle to dates is you.

If you only see Remark once a week to walk the dog, you will not spend enough enjoyable time alone together to fall in love again.

If you don't want to do UA time properly, you might as well file for divorce.

I empathize with him not seeing them. Whether I have empathy for the time it has taken him to address them will come later.

Dr Harley talks of 15 hours to maintain love where it already exists. He recommends 20 or more hours per week to create love where none exists.

SugarCane, I can't look up what I've read before on my phone so I'll have to get back to your post later when I'm home.

You don't really need to look up what you wrote earlier to answer my question from a few minutes ago.

I'll ask again: What is your goal with the separation? Do you intend to use it to rebuild your marriage, or have you decided to get a divorce?

The initial purpose was simply to separate myself from what I experienced as abusive treatment. Where it would go from there was up in the air at that point, and I think it still is. I've never in 21 years had the "intention to divorce," but have recently accepted that it might be inevitable.

Remark moved out once before a few years back. After a time, I let him move back in and re-engaged with him in a manner much like has been suggested here, based on words only without any evidence of change. I believe that was a huge mistake on my part and I have no intention of repeating that same mistake. So I've been waiting for some evidence of change in his behavior, with the intention of re-engaging slowly this time, IF I see a reason for hope.

I wasn't going to look up what *I* wrote, I was going to look up something I read in one of the articles on the MB site.

This is the article that resonated with me, down to the belief in unconditional love, separation, short-term length of her Plan B, and even "He agreed to do everything that was recommended while in the counseling office, but then didn't always follow through on the assignments." I was formulating my approach based upon this: "Fifteen hours a week of undivided attention, using the time to meet each other's emotional needs for affection, conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment, was the goal." The goal, not the starting point, and it doesn't mention anything about 20-30 hours. Also, they didn't move back in together for a year. This might be worth an email to Dr. Harley for clarification, especially since he's familiar with our situation.

Oh, and this: "It's pointless to deposit love units if you withdraw them right away." That's why I think it would be a bad idea to do more than a small amount of time at first, because Remark is still making make more withdrawals than deposits.

And a large part of that is because when he quits being a dolt long enough to give you 5 minutes of conversation, you squander it with arguments and unpleasantness.

You both keep fighting, you both keep blaming the other... and what has been repeated by posters to the both of you ad nauseum is STOP FIGHTING.

Don't start the unpleasant conversations.

Don't continue them if he starts them.

Just. Stop. It.

Who's to blame is irrelevant. That these nasty, disrespectful exchanges continue to occur is a bilateral cancer to your marriage surviving

Okay, this point has been beat to death. I've heard you and I've started mentally preparing for that already. I'd like to request that you now give me an opportunity to apply what you've suggested before continuing to pound me over the head with it.

Yes.

He doesn't have the time to make the deposits. If you're no longer fighting with him, there will be plenty of time.

Dr. Harley mentions 20-30 hours all over his program all the time.

15 hours MAINTAINS the love. It takes 20-30 hours to CREATE the romantic love. Since you have NONE, it is best to start there.

Nobody starts the program with less than 15 hours unless there is an affair, addiction or abuse going on. You have none of those. There is no reason to start with less. Anything less will not get you any results, and you will be wasting your time.

Your case is not special just because you don't like him anymore and don't trust him. That describes the majority of cases that come here.

Okay, well I'm not going to fight with you , I've already dropped a note to Dr. Harley for clarification.