We have had many happily married couples post together on Marriage Builders. It was great for their relationship and a major benefit to the board.

I hope you will keep an open mind and listen to the great advice you are getting. As someone who has been divorced, I would agree you should just do it instead of discussing it. Divorces are not amicable and pretending they are such only makes the process much worse.

Oh yes!

We had our absolutely wonderful, mind-blowing date this morning. Who would want to go out on a Friday night and fight the crowds of people who think Friday night is the only night you can have a date? That's not my cup of tea.

we are big fans of the non-primetime date as well.

With the exception of this immediate advice about D'ing, I have listened to and applied the advice. For the last almost two weeks, I've done it to the letter. I haven't had one fight with Remark and deflected if he tried to start one; I gave him my LB list last week unceremoniously (he didn't give me one;) I haven't tattled on him and let him post to the forum as he chose to, or not; I've been pleasant during the very minimal interactions we've had; I haven't tried to redirect his condo rehabbing activities or family interactions or IB of any sort.

I also have not gone on dates with him but that's not a big deal because a.) he only asked me again just yesterday after someone pinged him, and b.) Dr. (Willard) Harley is in agreement with us not doing so as long as our interactions are still laced with LB's (non-argument related.)

And all this has very successfully accomplished providing Remark an opportunity to work un-distracted on his condo.

I very much appreciate everyone's insistence that I step away, because it has enabled me to witness Remark's self-motivated efforts towards saving this M. I find they're almost non-existent. I would be hard-pressed to identify one thing he's applying besides "don't discuss anything unpleasant" (THAT was not a hard sell for him.) I know he's talking to Steve but I don't know what about; there's nothing evident in day-to-day life. And at this moment, I'm unable to distinguish what would be different if we actually were D'd. Tonight, he and our son are at his place watching the ballgame on tv while they work on the condo.

So between the call last week with Steve and the dead-silence since we stopped arguing, and the disheartening email exchanges between he and I and Dr. (Willard) Harley, I decided it was time. I stopped in the courthouse today to pick up the forms I need and I'll be filling them out this weekend. I'm sorry to hear your comment about "amicable divorces." We've actually known several couples through the years that have done it quite well, and the pay-off was extraordinary, not only financially but in regards to the impact on the kids. I'm still willing to give it a go until it proves unworkable. I KNOW the best way to guarantee that it WON'T be amicable is for me to start off with an attorney when we both said we would prefer not to. And most of the separation has already been done, there's just some child-related specifics that need to be defined. I'll do my best and he can fill in what he needs to, or if he decides he wants an attorney afterall, we can switch.

My divorcing was never intended as a threat, but rather as a warning of what was eminent given our current course. I never imagined giving Remark as much opportunity and as many chances as possible would have been considered a bad thing.

Our experience on this board - and Dr Harley agrees - is that most divorces are not "amicable" and such mediations are brutal. With you and Remark's long history of abusing each other I don't see how it could be otherwise. Just think about that for a minute. If a couple could successfully negotiate, they wouldn't be divorcing in the first place. When board members have tried to do this on their own, it has historically been a futile, highly stressful, combative waste of time that availed nothing. A more successful path was to have one attorney propose a settlement to start the process.


Why not just do it, then? IT seems that if you were serious, you would just file. I think sometimes divorce is the definition of success.

Divorce seems like a pretty serious decision to ask, "Why not just do it?" It's not like I'm just splurging on a purse. In any case, I'm there so it's somewhat moot.

Most divorces aren't amicable. Some are. Being as we've already split everything and our son is 15, it doesn't seem like there's much left to fight about and it's just filling out the paperwork. I guess time will tell. You may be right.

Divorce is inherently adversarial.

I agree it is a serious decision and we have taken you seriously. Should we be treating your decision the same as splurging on a purse? I would hope not. I don't think divorce should be bandied about unless you have made that decision. IF you "are there," as you say, why not just do it?

How did she know I just splurged on 2 new purses online?!

And attorneys are a big part of that adversity, I believe.

Seriously, if we've already split the finances, Remark purchased a condo and moved, our son is of an age where the courts would let him decide his own schedule, what's left? Everything we've fought about for so long was within the context of M. All that goes away with D.

I am. I don't understand your question. I have the forms. I have a plan for the weekend to fill them out and gather the supporting documents. The courts are closed until Monday.

PICTURES!!!!

No, they aren't. We are referring to the behavior of the divorcing spouses.


Then just file and be done with it.

I REFUSE to incriminate myself!! But I will say there are some AWESOME sales online right now! I am "saving" lots of money!

Then what are you arguing about?!

Huh?

My only differing perspective is whether to use an attorney or not. I intend not to until deemed otherwise. Otherwise, no one is arguing that I'm aware of.

You seem to be arguing. I am not sure why if you have decided to file. The question was why do you need to negotiate with remark? Why not just file? As abusive as you both have been, that seems counterproductive.

I'm doing this because this is what we agreed we would do back when he moved out. I don't have a reason NOT to try to work with him amiably on this when I see no obvious roadblocks or landmines. Both of us filing mutually agreed-upon documents initially will make the court process smoother for both of us.

That's my plan. No argument, just what I'm going to do unless/until real-life indicates otherwise.

Wouldn't the reason be because you don't have an amicable relationship?

So, to put an end to this argument, I'm going to leave it at, "I'll let you know. I'm going to have to get back to you."