There has been no big event, only minor upsets, but upsets that have warn her out out perhaps.

Three months before the marriage she did say she was not feeling sure and when I asked her why her main three things were

- cleaning bathtroom, cooking meals, and the fact that I had refused toget out of bed at 5am to see our eldest stepson leave for university

If you've pledged to address her complaints and are filling her love bank (she doesn't have to be on board for you to do this) then you've an excellent chance of winning her back. Indeed complaints about non intimate stuff like house work are normally the result of a low love bank. A woman in love demands more romance, a woman out of love wants you to mop.

However if there's an affair in the background then nothing you do will work. And that usually is the case unfortunately.

This statement indicates that you do not have transparency at all, as you seemed to imply you do in your first post.

Why are you not welcome to access her phone? People with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

I had a similar fear of being caught myself, but now I can't remember why I was afraid of being 'caught' taking an interest in a spouses reasons for leaving! You'd be a bit odd not to take an interest.

Was this her biological child? Does she have more biological children remaining in the home? When do they leave for university?

Becoming an empty nester is a difficult time emotionally for many "moms".

It's also a transitional time.

Once the kids are gone and it's just "us" can create some panicky response when you just aren't in love with your spouse.

Also the concept of buyer's remorse. The marriage was supposed to fix her feelings, and it didn't (because that's not what marriage is supposed to do). Read up on Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders too.

Godspeed,
Mr. W

That sounds just like what you were doing in your previous marriage:

Would you say that you have behaved much the same as in your previous marriage, putting your own interests first and not listening to her complaints? Do you still play computer games? And I'm sure I read somewhere that you refused to get up early in that marriage, too, but I cannot find the post now.

It doesn't seem as if you used His Needs Her Needs to make permanent changes to your behaviour. Is that the case?

Did you ever finish this course?

You didn't answer MelodyLane's question about the affair in your previous marriage. Did you ever find out that there really was one? Did you do anything to try and save the marriage after that?

My first wife did have an affair. I disposed of my computer, lost 15kg, and waited 3 months after she left before i gave up.

My current marriage, i have fooled myself. Yes i still play games to relax. I also windsurf now as an outdoor activity.

I thought my wife and i would be immune to this as we have always followed the philosophy of not getting resentful if something upset but rather to devide if something could not be accomodated then we would bring it up with the other.

During our time together both our eldest children, my daughter, her son, have gone from 12-18 and left for university.

There have been many trying times that we have navigated successfully and we have kept the peace, and not been passive aggressive due to resentment, by following this philosophy.

But my wife is a giver and defaults to accomodation whereas I have asked for what i want in situations when it is important to me.

When we met i had been living alone for about 8 months and I had a good idea what was important to me for my happiness, and have always been clear that i believed that I am the only person who is responsible for MY happiness and that if something was important enough to me i would ask for it and not get angry and resentful like i used to in my previous marriage.

That is why on one hand i don't understand why she didn't just tell me what she wanted because i have always listened to her on other matters.

But i can see how through my neglect, and her giving personality, that she stopped asking and i didn't notice.

Greg, the problems you are facing are the problems most men face in marriage.

The difference is some men learn what to do about these problems, and some do not.

Isn't it time you spent some time to learn Marriage Builders? You've been here since 2008. By now you should know how to have a SPECTACULAR marriage!

Steve Harley told me I needed to "embark on a program of education" to learn the concepts and tools this program offers so that when difficulties came I would be able to rely on what I had learned and work through the programs. So I read books and read Q&A columns and, most importantly, listened to the daily Marriage Builders Radio show so I could learn how to save my marriage.

It took three years of listening to those daily radio sessions before things finally got good! I had to learn A LOT!

Are you listening to the Marriage Builders Radio show, daily? Do you have the app? If you won't invest this much effort into your marriage, then I'd suggest that we can't possibly help you.

Thanks Marcos, i just got the app and the Program sounds great.

Listen daily!

What Marriage Builders book do you own? Which ones have you read?

Something positive?

So day 6 and and I have gone on my new morning ritual of getting up at 6am and going for a walk on the local beach just before dawn.

I invited her via FB msg but she replied that she hoped I had a good walk.

After returning home and having a shower she came into kitchen while I was making coffee and let me know about a few perfunctory things which I listened attentively to. I then looked her in the eye and told her I missed her this morning and she got visibly teary, nodded and smiled at me.

Which Marriage Builders books do you own? Which ones have you read?

His needs her needs and love busters

Excellent.

I would also encourage you to get the latest edition of Surviving an Affair. The whole Marriage Builders recovery plan is in that book, even for a marriage that has not seen an affair.

You had a copy of HNHN when you came to the forum in 2008. However, there has been another edition of the book since then. You should get the most recent version.

When did you last read a section of either of those books?

That really is good advice. In particular, the conversation chapter in HNHN has been really enhanced!

The books are all out on kindle now, too.

I originally purchased two copies of each and overtime have loaned to people and not been returned.

I purchased the kindle versions thursday night after I discovered the letter my wife left me and went through both again.

I'm going to read through them again though.

I'll def take your advice and purchase a copy today then. Thankyou for tips

Day 6 ended on a low

We had a conversation in the afternoon she wanted to have about financial settlement plans.

Her idea is that she wishes to stay in house in short term and finance a loan herself to pay me my share so i will move out.

She has a very well payed job and i didn't bring much in way of assets so she may be able to finance my share.

While she still cares for me and was in tears when i explained how sincerely sorry i am for neglecting her and believing we have a great chance of restoring our marriage she maintained that she has no intention of working on our marriage.

She doesn't she has anything more to give and that there are fundamental things different about what we need.

She did reveal her feelings about how she has always been the parent in her relationships, with her mum, with her first husband, and now me. She also revealed in relation to me wanting to save our marriage and family that she didn't think we had a family. That her idea and my ideas about family were different.

She felt she had tried to build and nurture a relationship with my girls and that had done what i had the capacity to do which i took to mean, i probably should have asked for more detail, that i had not built a close a connection with my stepsons.

I asked if she would be willing to read something and her response was that she needed me to let her go inspite of the fact that she knows i am in a lot of pain.

I said while i respect her decision i will be trying to restore our marriage and believe we have a fantastic chance of repairing if we make spending time together and making our marriage the priority but she just said that she needs to look after her own happiness and if she agreed to do any MB stuff it would again be her looking after my needs at her expense and that she feels she already given what she can.

Any advice on moving forward.

Should i respect her wishes and accept a settlement to move? If she won't entertain any steps for spending time together i feel there is little chance of restoring love.