If there would be someone else why accept the proposal? That's what I have a hard time understanding...

She must have said something about why she was changing her mind and moving out. What has she said is the reason?

Needs time and space...

Are you saying you DON'T think anyone else is involved?

Where is your son living now?

Yes sugar cane, i do not THINK anybody else is involved. I was looking to eliminate the possibility in my head.

We have 50/50 with our son.

If she moved out two months ago, then she very well could be dating someone. She's allowed. It will hurt, but its true.

I suspect she had been planning to leave for a while. Financial disaster and no ring, yet a child, must have caused her to check out (withdrawal) long ago. Maybe she said yes in hopes of change, but reality set in.

So, even if she is dating someone what is your plan to woo her back?

How are you going to SHOW her that she is worthy of real commitment?

I honestly have up trying for the time being. Giving her the requested space. Anything I would try to do or say would seem to push her further away so I put the wooing on hold

Let me run through it again. You said that in your book, she's not a free agent since she has a 4 year old son and a home on the line.

What would you guess her perspective is on that? Would you guess that she considers herself a free agent at this point?

I would encourage you to read this article if you haven't already:

How Dr. Harley Learned to Save Marriages

I just read that. I also have his needs her needs at home. It's next on the list to read

I would suggest the book Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders instead.

She has been living with you as a Renter. She has had basically a month to month agreement with you. You might have thought that the terms were different, but clearly her opinion at the moment is that she doesn't have anything permanent with you, right?

Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders explains how to transform from Freeloader to Renter to Buyer.

After four years of everything else taking priority, she probably fell out of love and figured you didn't really care to a level of care she needed.

If you've "given up", it seems accurate. You're willing to spy, but you're not willing to court her again, woo her, and show her that you want to marry her because she's worth it?

Think about it. She didn't think you cared enough. How can you change her mind? By backing away, or by moving mountains?

I'm not saying that backing off is permanent. Just giving into the space request. I'm trying to take a step back an figure my next move out before I do any more harm so to speak

The first 3 weeks or so of her moving out I did all the flowers, calling to see if she needed anything or if I could help any way and that always seemed to anger her as if I wouldn't acknowledge her request. Since then I only bother calling to say goodnight and talk to my son. And have him call her before he goes to bed when he's with me.

You have no right to spy because you have no contract of exclusivity (marriage).

Go back to calling her, talking to her, etc.

When you are in love with a woman and want to win her and she is seeing some other man and is not legally married to you, this is what you have to do. Court her.

I am certain that only bothering to call to say goodnight to your son sent her a message that you are moving on from her. That is a great way to END your relationship if that is your goal.

Get Buyers Renters and Freeloaders, get the Marriage Builders Radio app, and start listening to Dr. Harley daily to learn how to win the mother of your son and get her to fall in love with you again.

Because with a house and baby on the line, she's been put on the spot. If she says 'no' she's actually making more of a decision than saying 'yes' - it means drama, conflict and packing your bags.

If however she says 'yes' she has time to mull things over - you already had a 'let's get married someday' plan, she was simply remaining in it until getting ready to jump.

Neither of you would have thought so initially, but having the house and baby first actually waters the commitment. A woman with her own place would have been making more of a commitment - more of a decision by accepting a proposal. In fact your girlfriend doesn't know for sure if it's like that on your end. We're you proposing to her as an individual or were you thinking of the joint lifestyle you don't want to lose?

I've heard a lot of women bemoan that they didn't feel flattered when the ring showed up after the baby - even though they were active participants in the slow slide into commitment decisions. They simply didn't think ahead to how they would feel when the commitment came last.

You actually may be in a better position now that she's out of the house. The pressures about deciding whether to stay or go are off, and you are courting her as a person rather than seeking to tie up the paperwork and secure the lifestyle. You can show her that.

This fledgling relationship with someone else can't possibly compete with someone who knows MB - and is the only person in the world who is her son's father.

Markos is totally right about courtship advice. You don't request the woman's desire in advance of courting her you just do it. You'd be asking for feelings you haven't inspired yet.

I'm not saying stalk her without considering her feelings - more float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Hit and run needs meeting. Just be available, helpful, considerate. Be Mr nice guy who can't get over her. Who doesn't like that?

better let this one go. not really justified snooping.