Don't tone it down.
Don't be "over the top".
Be consistent, and routine with your admiration and changes. Otherwise you send a mixed message.

Please don't tell her that you see her in pain and you love her enough to let her go and save her the pain. (Regarding your comment on the show)

Can you see, Dejavude, how saying that is an insult and will backfire?

The underlying message is:

I can't handle seeing you disappointed.

I would rather bow out than prove that I am committed to changing.

I don't believe that you are worth fighting for.

I see your needs as excessive and too difficult to meet.

You are expecting things that I find impossible to deliver. In the end I will fail and you will inevitably be disappointed.


Is that the message you want to send?

A better message would be one which says that you are sorry for any pain which you have caused her, and that you see the changes as beneficial to both of you, that her happiness in your marriage is your top priority from now on.

You do not want to see her in pain anymore so you will take her into your world and care for her like none other. She is too important to you to let her go. Instead you will start being what she needs from now on.

Of course she'll be ticked every time you make an effort to meet her needs, that it came to this point for you to listen up- And for a long time she will react that way, until she can count on your care and protection as the standard and not the exception, and without her having to remind you.

So, throwing caution to the wind I responded to my wifes txt by knocking on her door and speaking to her.

I appoligised for making her feel harrassed, told her u couldn't help want to be with because i love her and find her irristable.

She started by saying she feels like she has tried not to be rude but will now no longer be participating in family meals and for me not to do anything else for her.

She steered the conversation to wanting to arrange real estate agents at which I responded that i had no intention of selling. When said she didn't want to have to take me to court i asked her if she wanted to have lunch with me. She then just walked into her room and closed door.

I then got this txt msg
[quote]

I don't love you anymore. There is no us. It's over. Have some dignity & self respect. Stop fighting me. The more you continue on the more resentment that builds. Man up & accept the reality.

[\quote]

I responded with

I totally accept your right to self determination. It is with the greatest humility and love that i wish to do whatever it takes to make you happy. Self respect comes from within and by making choices that we believe are the right thing to do even when others would prefer we give up. I am sorry that my actions brought us to this place and I apologise if my determination to do what i believe is the right thing causes you discomfort. On balance trying to keep our family and restoring love to our marriage is the right choice. If you continue to separate at least you will know I admitted my mistakes, tried to show you how important you and family really is to me and never gave up.

She has told my daughter and stepson that she won't be having anymore family meals and will be ignoring me as I am not "getting it".

She is planning on taking step son to house sit for three weeks in approx a week so they won't be here anymore. Well, that will be a month so suppose it depends on how far she can go regarding the house and settlement without my co-operation.

It's not looking very promising.

Stay in Plan A.

I think that your response was good.

Also did you tell her that you agree to go to the psych with her? She may have painted you to the psych as unwilling.

Yes i am going with her on monday.

Dr Harley advised it was good idea and to just show contrition and willingness to change.

Yes!

"Dr. Psych-

Things have "clicked" in a way that I understand better how to care for her now.- ... the changes I am willing to make are good, and want her to be happy in iur marriage."

Don't disagree or try to justify your plan with the psych. If you don't agree, just let the psych know that you "hear what he/she is saying..." Don't give the impressiin of forcing her at all.

I listened to your show.

When you established the facts in your letter to Dr. Harley, you left out that she had TWO affairs in her first marriage, and this guy she's emailing with is one of the OM. Susie told you to share this detail with Dr. Harley. Instead, you told Dr. Harley you were mistaken and there was nothing inappropriate and they were just friends!

She had an affair with this guy in a previous marriage. She's been having INAPPROPRIATE emails with him while married to you. Why in the world did you back down? Why did you not give Dr. Harley this crucial information?

(BTW, they are not "just friends." That's a cop-out)

In what universe is it appropriate to be "just friends" with a former affair partner?

They are not "just friends."

So, throwing caution to the wind I responded to my wifes txt by knocking on her door and speaking to her.

I appoligised for making her feel harrassed, told her u couldn't help want to be with because i love her and find her irristable.

She started by saying she feels like she has tried not to be rude but will now no longer be participating in family meals and for me not to do anything else for her.

She steered the conversation to wanting to arrange real estate agents at which I responded that i had no intention of selling. When said she didn't want to have to take me to court i asked her if she wanted to have lunch with me. She then just walked into her room and closed door.

I then got this txt msg

I'm really impressed. I think you did great, here! Based on your call with Dr. Harley, it sounds like she does actually have some things in mind you could have been doing and it would probably be helpful for you to be doing those things, even if she protests. A wife in withdrawal is always annoyed at her husband's efforts. Eventually if he wins her back she will appreciate him for it. If she doesn't want to have you keep trying, she doesn't have to choose to talk to you and she doesn't have to choose to stay married to you - but so far she is still talking to you, and she is still married to you.

Just heard Dr. Harley say "she's not going to make it easy for you." My wife is smiling sweetly at me because she remembers treating me exactly like that!

I think continuing to persistently make conversation and try to spend time with her and spend time with her and the kids and work on the things she listed, combined with showing willingness to change with the psychologist as Dr. Harley recommended, is definitely the way to go forward.

Hi Prisca

I gave Dr Harley all the information you mentioned in my emails. He has also pointed out to me that she could be having a relationship and that she if she isn't she would be very open to one even though she is adamant she wants to be by herslef - being her main goal is to find and take care of her own happiness.

The "mistake" was me jumping the gun with exposing this interaction she had with the old "friend".

I def haven't ruled out the possibility that she is having a relationship with someone.

Huh? That's not how I remember it and I just relistened and transcribed information about OM2. (Note: Joyce said she was reading straight from your email vs summarizing)

"I did discover some emails between her and a former male close friend that were somewhat inappropriate that I became upset about."

"I have since discovered this was a mistake that there is no romantic relationship with this man or any other man and realize I have now done more damage to our relationship to our marriage."

You did not refer to him as an OM from her previous marriage. You did not tell them that your W is CURRENTLY trying to meet up with him.

I also didn't hear anything about her having two affairs in her first marriage. I also didn't hear anything about the fact that there is a history of her not allowing you access to her phone.

There is a good possibility that your W is a serial cheater. It's really too bad that you did not give Dr Harley the full story.

"I have since discovered this was a mistake that there is no romantic relationship with this man or any other man and realize I have now done more damage to our relationship to our marriage."


Huh? You have NOT verified this by PI....you did very little snooping and did not have access to your W's phone. The fact that she did not allow you access and had it password locked is a huge red flag.

Syncing her phone to the computer and looking at the history is not adequate. As far as I know there are ways around this. When I was trying to recover texts from my ex WH's phone I could not recovery texts by syncing.

This is page one of this thread.

I read through your first thread (from 2008) today and was amazed at the similarity - you were in denial of an affair back then even though people were SCREAMING at you that a wife wanting "space" and not allowing access to the phone = affair. They tried for pages and pages to get you to snoop.

You came back with the same things you are saying in this thread.

"She is in withdrawal"
"I pushed her away with my tantrums"
"There is a toxic friend"

Now you are back years later and the first thing you told us is that you WILL NOT snoop and there is no affair - even though you were wrong back in 2008.

You have a HUGE issue with DENIAL, dajavude!

This is exactly what I heard. Joyce said she was reading your letter directly rather than summarizing it.

Contact with an old affair partner - no matter how "innocent" you try to spin it (It was an EA....he lives far away, blah blah) will keep your W foggy.

She sounds very much like she is wayward and on the prowl for another OM to me.

You really have no idea what she's up to!

Why in the world you would work so hard to convince Dr Harley that she is in withdrawal when she has a history of having affairs, has been trying to reconnect with an old affair partner and "wants space" and wont' allow you access to her phone is really quite beyond me.

Why not just give him the FACTS and let him make his own determination??

Why would you do that? Who told you to do that?
When are you going to do some serious snooping?

D, I know you are quite fearful of proper snooping - a few times you have mentioned 'damaging the trust'. If she is really one of those people who demand trust in the form of a wall to do secret things behind - it is even more important to snoop!

You should be demonstrating that you are interested in her, on every level. I know that if I were packing my bags I would expect a man who loved me to be on high alert, checking out my every move and every word. There is simply nothing wrong with that. If she does catch you out you can tell her you find her behaviour with her old OM to be fundamentally worrying to any husband in love. You can tell her she can trust you to have both steely eyes on this situation and that you will not let this sleaze near her.

Anything less is a lazy uncaring husband and you are not that.

If she asks you about future trust, you would tell her you expect full, voluntary transparency for your future marriage. Get that concept cemented in now.

Don't tip your hand - snoop quietly, but don't be afraid of being 'caught'. If she objects to snooping its because she doesn't want to be caught.

There was three emails - she summarised the last one. The detail about her other behaviour was in the previous emails that were not read out.

Dr Harley has advised OM is a distinct possibility. I accept that.

I don't deny this is a distinct possibility. I am doing what I can but I have limited options without causing a total breakdown of trust. I can't very well just walk up to my wife and demand she give me her phone.