You already told us that she was communicating back with the OM from her first M in October 2014 - and started complaining about doubts with going forward w the M due to household chores. So what is the point in analyzing it further?

You know what Dr Harley says about affairs being an addiction, and how C will cause a wayward to become foggy, yes??

I re-read your entire thread and what struck me is that so many of the things you post contradict what Dr Harley views as a healthy attitude in M.

Exposure doesn't drive a person away. If a wayward leaves the M due to exposure, Dr Harley would say that you only sped up the inevitable....that the person would not have changed their attitude/behavior in the M.

Accountability is a GOOD thing in M, Dajavude. That's what helps keep people on the straight and narrow. Your WW obviously has a long history with having a SSL and poor boundaries with men, dating all the way back to her first marriage. If your exposure drove her away, all that means is that she is rejecting accountability and transparency, and it's not a M worth fighting for anyway.

The reason this really stuck out to me is.....you already rejected the forum advice one time years ago and obviously didn't embrace and learn about MB - or else you wouldn't have gotten in to such a mess again.

The living together before marriage, the IB on both your parts were concerning but the most alarming is that you are embracing the "cozy" parts of MB (how to bring a spouse out of withdrawal by meetin' needs, etc) just like you did back in 2008. And you are still trying to point to all these other issues when the most glaring is that your WW still has contact with an OM?

Dajavude, if you gain only ONE thing from bein on the forum this time - please learn ALL of MB - get yourself SAA, read the SAA articles. Not just the "cozy" MB101 parts of the program. Cherry picking does not work. This will help you with your personal recovery, in case your WW does decide to give your M another shot (hint: do not allow her to have a SSL anymore and have C with old affair partners) and most definitely will help you in case you decide to divorce, date and marry again (again, obvious hints: do not live together before marriage and do not waste time with women who divorced over their affairs and still talk to their OM, etc).

Good luck!

I can't stop anything without proof. Her phone backup had no proof on it so eben stealing her phone somehow might not provide evidence if she is deleting everything.

I litteralty would have have to physically catch her.

At this point there is no hard proof. I need to know what is the best thing to do now with the information I have.

If she isn't having an affair then what level or ballance of contact should I strive for?

Would I be better off letting her know I will not keep harrasing her so that she may feel comfortable to return to the house at some point? Wouldn't it be better for me to have a pleasant in house seperation where if she calmed down, i stopped pursuing her, and she allowed me to prepare meals etc?

This probably won't hsppen again anyway, but if it was possible it wouldn't be with me ignoring her request for me to stop annoying her.

Well, then whole hog Marriage Builders is your only way to go.

Radio show, every day, for life.

I have SAA, HNHN, and LB books.

If she is having an A and i cant find proof i am screwed. If she isn't having an affair and we are appart and she refuses to even communicate with me, I am screwed.

So I have taken steps that will give me the best chance in both circumstances. Keep snooping and respect my wifes wishes for me to stop my direct harrassing pursuit.

I have emailed this morning to communicate this. She has promised me in a long email there is no one else I have promised to not harrass her. She will be considering returning to the house in a couple of weeks after house sitting a friends house.

She and I are now txting and she has offered to discuss an issue i needed advice on regarding my daughter and her real mum.

Yesterday there was no communication and there was animosity and lashing out by her because I wasn't respecting her wishes.

This gives me a chance to have pleasant respectful communication with her. If there is no A then this is my only chance to have contact and make meaningful deposits.

You will have to be a little bit clearer in the point you are trying to make. My understanding is that my situation, as in life, is not black and white. Or maybe that is the point you are trying make?

The point I'm making is that you don't seem to be pondering the advice you are receiving. You ask...they answer, and it seems to pass you by...

I don't see any sign that you're listening.

I take that to mean that the advice is she is def in a relationship with someone else and im not doing enough to find out who?

Yes.

Because there are ways. AND you can't face an enemy who is always taking you by surprise. You will lose the war.

Also, Dr. Harley whose life's work is to save marriages asked you if it's really worth saving. Plus the forum. Your answer was good. But until you know for sure what you are dealing with, you can't fully decide.

My main point was that you weren't really responding to the posters' advice. Only asking more questions. You are stir crazy because you have no plan and can't make one without more Intel.

I will try to follow her as much as possible

Found her on a walk this morning. I think it was her, she was walking by herself and then started walking with a man. I'm not entirely certain but she might have seen me.

But she didn't act like she had. That is she/he didn't come back in my direction but they weren't holding hands or anything.

I hope she didn't see me

Did you recognize this man?

Not from the distance I saw them.

I'm off to the appointment with wife and her psychologist. I am already feeling sick and all knotted up in my stomach like it's the most important job interview x1000.

I really don't want to get emotional but I don't think I am going to be able to hold it together.

Had the appointment.

All quite surreal. The psychologist wasn't the marriage wrecking ogre I had pinned him as. In fact he seemed very impressed with my contrition and self awareness and was probing my wife regarding opportunities for future reconciliation.

She was in tears throughout the session but is still steadfastly maintaining the relationship is over.

When she recounted her feelings of exhaustion and that she felt like she had been carrying the burden of the parenting and family support role and just felt like we had different priorities, I just listened and acknowledged.

When I saw her in the waiting room she smiled and didn't seem agitated by anything, and nothing was mentioned in the session regarding me following her so I think I must have somehow gone unnoticed.

She even TXT me after the session to thank me for coming.

So I am going to keep doing my best to follow her before and after hours - we have at least 3-4 weeks of living apart and then she has mooted we may need to discuss some arrangements regarding the house which I would imagine would be to do with planning for its sale.

In the mean time I am going to focus on spending as much time and activities with youngest step son as that would be the only avenue for deposits she can't block.

Stepson is staying tomorrow for a gaming night. Strangely, wife has offered to take my daughter somewhere.

Would have been an ideal opportunity for her to arrange a rendevous ?

She has more than just that one priority though if in an affair. The main one being reputation management. Or getting you out of the house. Either of those motives could be at play in getting your daughter to herself.

Her behaviour is very strange right now.