You could physically go there and find out.

You could hire a private investigator.

You could employ technology.

You could enlist the help of friends.

There are probably other things you could do as well.

Next time you feel like posting "I can't," just save yourself a lot of grief and hire a divorce attorney.

Marriage doesn't work when you say "I can't."

If I find another car at this house what should I do then?

Find out who is the owner of this car.

Thats all well and good if I knew where she was staying.

Sir we cant do your detective work for you.
if you cant do it then hire a PI and get it done.

No PI where I live.

A lot of little details are bugging me, I get the impression that half the story is missing. I'm still confused why you didn't apply MB in this relationship (and why you didn't want to marry her years before you did).

In the beginning of this thread you mention the letter your wife left you. What exactly did she write? If you post the contents of the letter, it is easier to help you. She might have left clues on how to deposit her lovebank, maybe she also used wayward expressions. If she did, you know you have to snoop more/better.

In 2008 you wrote:
Wether or not she is having an affair, take care of the problems you have and make a better future without them. In your first thread, you mentioned you had a problem with angry outbursts and you had signed up for an anger management course. I got the impression that problem might still exist, as you ignored SugarCanes question in the beginning of this thread, wether or not you finished the course (or perhaps you just missed the question).

You mention she will be housesitting for a friend. Later you tell you don't know where she is staying. Do you know this friend? If so, finding out where your wife stays can't be that hard.

You say you have no idea who OM is, but you have acces to en email conversation between this man and your wife. So you do know his name, IP-adress, the company he works at. Right?

You ask several times "If I find out she did X, should I do Y?" Find out what is really happening, then ask what to do.

When I found out my 'boyfriend' had lied to me on not being married, I investigated thouroughly and got all info he hid from me (wife and kid, kids school, etc.).
When a person deer to me was dating an abusive/controlling boyfriend, I investigated her wherebouts, so I could prevent more bad things from happening (went on stakeout, keylogger on computer, the works. She is greatful now and safe!).
To me it is hard to understand why you haven't investigated more or better. Google everything, use different combinations of info (OM name, company, residence, every snippet you have). If I google "dejavude" and "site:marriagebuilders.com", I find this thread . You can look for OM googling his name and "site:facebook.com", be creative. Or google your wife, does your wife has a specific screenname she uses on a forum or on social media? I bet with the info you've got, you can find out quite a bit more than you have so far.

I don't have a good answer for that. I know that I practiced focusing on her most important needs earlier in our relationship. I think that there may have been a feeling of resentment in me about a number of important relationship respect and care matters that I may have subconsciously chosen to balance the score.


It was a long letter. She was very specific and I have paraphrased earlier in the thread. Her shortlist is

1. Time
2. Words of affirmation
3. Gifts.

She is living elsewhere and refuses to spend any time with me that isn't absolutely necessary. She has told me my messaging her against her wishes is harassment and to stop it. Everything I do or buy, or try to give to her in acts of service or affection ,she rejects. Eg I made pumpkin soup for her and stepson when they stayed the other night, while I took my daughter to a family meal at my brothers. I came home early to prepare soup, clean the house, floors, bathroom, kitchen, bought flowers, and left a crane I folded with a romantic affectionate message on her pillow.

Both she and stepson ignored the soup; she made a point of having a conversation with me to tell me to stop giving her cranes as it was making her feel uncomfortable and that all future social interactions with her son needed to go through her.

She is pursuing a clinical surgical removal of me from her life.


Frankly, if we were defending a litigation on not meeting contractual obligations I would have no defense. Further, it would be ludicrous to suggest I be given second chance to fulfill the contract.


I didn't complete the course. I purchased an anger management book, and read many other books in relation to emotional and social intelligence.

I have not had issues with angry outbursts in this relationship. My problem, is being too assertive and standing my ground on selfish points.

We both brought an 8 and a 12 year old into the relationship. Me two girls, her two boys. There was a lot of negotiating required to make this work and we did a very good job; I think.

I followed a policy that if something was worth getting annoyed about then it had to be communicated and dealt with. If wasn't worth dealing with then I let it go.

That is the approach my wife and I have followed and basically the reason why I feel ambushed is that following the letter she wrote, she made various comments to me stating she appreciated the efforts i was making to prioritise things important to her. She never made any representations regarding my efforts that needed improving from her perspective.


No I don't know anything about her friend. I have just ben told it;s a friends house.


The email is from an old close friend, he lives in another city, and they have not seen each other in years. er last email to him that I saw, was sent after she hit me me with the news, and it was a flirty msg saying she would like to catch up if he was ever in another major city where she regulary goes for work. He works high up in corporate HR and I know she is planning to move career wise out of the public sector into the private sector so he in hat respect he is one good resource for her. ALbeit one with a close connection she should not have been contacting

Not him. Otherwise it would have been specific.


That would be fine if the OM was the person in the flirty email. It isn't.

So my question is what exactly should I be doing now?

For how long and what should my Plan A look like. She is basically on the verge of reporting me to the police for harrasment. I have no contact with her and she is for all intents blocking access to my stepson.

I am feeling like it is lost cause. 3 weeks is going to go by and and either I keep the peace by not contacting her or I risk having some kind of AVO slapped on me if I keep trying to contact her by phone, txt, or email.

Everyone here is adamant there is an affair which I have no way of proving. I have no access to phone, txt, email, FB, or her location anymore. So is there any point in any contact?

Honestly, if there isn't an affair, what are the chances of her changing her mind now given everything she has done? What time frame, given no affair, would I expect to see something indicating a willingness to reconcile. I don't see that it's possible.

She has told all our friends and family, she has told me its over and doesn't love me. How is she going get to a cognitive place in her mind strong enough to come back after all that?

Sir, you do not lack the knowledge of what to do. What you lack is the will.

Agreed.

I don't know what to do or what i can do. All the options i have lead to same result.

In pragmatic terms, since my mindset has been directed at an affair my emotional and physical health has deteriorated. All i can think of is her with someone else and I am powerless to do anything. So it would seem I either die in the vat of acid like Marcos says or cut my heart out and give up to save my sanity.

Thankyou all for your help.

You haven't taken any action to fight this affair.

You feel awful because you have done nothing. Once you take action, you will feel better. You could hire a PI from another town. You said she is planning to go to Sydney. Hire one there. There are numerous options. Stop hand-wringing and take action.

We are not ignorant to the pain of betrayal and trying to Plan A while in the depths of an emotional roller coaster, Daja. The excuse about your emotional health isn't going to get anyone here to help you stick your head in the sand and pretend there is nothing to be done about the affair.

Get on ADs, stop making excuses and get to work already.

I dont have the resources to pay for a PI to travel here etc.

There really is no other option.

I either stay in Plan A in belief there is no OM or I believe there is an OM and realise I can't do anything.

I would like thread locked and arvhived or whatever from public view.

Which is the main problem in your mind, Dajavude?

1. Limited resources
2. Your emotions making you see obstacles instead of possibilities
3. Your decision that if there actually IS another man, you won't WANT to recover.

It's the circle of consequences.

Apparently I am the only one in this thread that thinks there might not be an actual relationship going on yet.

So on the basis that there must be OM I have the option of

- finding out and exposing the relationship to try to save marriage

- failing that, continuing to Plan A for some undetermined period of time not knowing either way if what I am doing is going to make any difference.

So in my mind enough doubt about whether there is OM exists to make me realise it would be futile to plan A if there was. The options I have available to me to discover if and who the OM is are not sufficient to achieve that goal.

So it's a combination of realities. I have asked for advice that provides realistic decision making options for me but all I am getting told is that I lack commitment when I just don't have the capacity to do anything else, either in terms of my own physical actions, or paying for investigators.

I'll just clarify, if I could prove existence of a relationship, and if exposing resulted in my wife reconsidering our marriage, I would welcome her back with open arms, I would forgive her and make her happiness and our marriage my number one priority. I would happily forgive her.

I don't see a way for me to do this. I can't afford $1000's of dollars on a PI. The alternative is for me to try to find her car and follow her. That would be a very difficult and risky endevour, and quite frankly, I don't think that exposing an affair would be 100% likely to result in a reconciliation anyway.

The whole time I am in limbo I am emotionally not focused on my daughter who needs me but i am walking around in this frantic flight and flight daze unable to deal with anything else.

In my situation, what would you recommend I do?

Realistically if I cannot discover if there is OM then my only alternatives are to give up or to proceed like there is no OM, right?

So, how long would someone in my situation need to be in Plan A with a wife that has done what she has done, IF there was no OM?

1 Month, 3 months, 6 months ? What is realistic. My intuition is that if there was no OM she would have shown some sign by now right?

You need to realize there are no 100% choices available to you other than divorce. That is the only 100% choice here.

I can point you to a few situations like mine where the husband fights and loses, and I can point you to a lot of situations where the husband fights and wins. Even if you fight, there is no guarantee other than a lack of regret. Give due diligence and I promise you, you will have no regret about the action you took.

What you are doing now is not due diligence.

If you can't afford a PI, completely exhaust your options for doing so with the understanding that it might mean the difference between saving your marriage and not saving it, and if you still have no funding available, then look at snooping other ways. I ended up taking out a loan against a car (use a bank, not a loan shark if you do this) I had already paid off because I didn't have the cash on hand and was not going to let $2000 be the difference between saving my marriage/not saving it and even simply knowing myself what in the world was happening. Can you really just walk away from this content to not know? How?!

Exposure is not a 100% option for reconciling your wife because your wife is temporarily insane and there are few 100% choices with crazy people. But it is a 100% choice for helping your daughter understand this moment in her life that is probably very troubling for her. And it's a 100% choice for choosing to be empowered and not imprisoned by this situation.

I'm sure anxiety is destroying you right now, because I can remember being in your shoes. You have plays to make, and once you make them, you will feel better. You're focusing on a lot of "if's" right now (e.g. if my wife would reconcile) instead of the "is's" in your situation.

Your wife is communicating with a lover, you have already uncovered this and shared it with us. Your wife is having an affair by any sensible definition of the word.

Your wife is about to leave you.

Your time is running out.

The only person keeping you in limbo is you.

Whether something will or won't work (e.g. Plan A) is not something you know anywhere near as well as the veterans here. Let them worry about the strategic soundness of Plan A.

You are not powerless here, you are just refusing to trust the advice given here enough to try it.

Sir visit your doctor and ask to be prescribed anti depressant medication so you can function.