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On that call JD2D perceived I was forlorn to do POJA and follow the Harley program. She asked why. So, I told her that I was forlorn sounding because I have a dentist appointment with my brother because of a broken tooth and that reminded me of my family being an issue for her.
I saddens me to think that I she's not comfortable with them and we can't all can't coexist.
She doesn't believe that and is now arguing with why I was feeling forlorn.
How do we find POJA on an issue like this?
Remark
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On that call JD2D perceived I was forlorn to do POJA and follow the Harley program. She asked why. So, I told her that I was forlorn sounding because I have a dentist appointment with my brother because of a broken tooth and that reminded me of my family being an issue for her.
I saddens me to think that I she's not comfortable with them and we can't all can't coexist.
She doesn't believe that and is now arguing with why I was feeling forlorn.
How do we find POJA on an issue like this?
Remark Can you find the disrespectful judgment in your statements?
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(Didn't we discuss the dentist issue last winter?)
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Good for you for making the appointment and following through.
How did it go with the excel thing? Did you take some time Sunday to plan some UA time with d2d this week? Is that part of the plan?
How do you feel about POJA? Personally, the thing has been life-changing for me, and the more parts I use it into my life - parenting, extended family, work, health - the more benefits I get. Let me know if you want some examples.
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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On that call JD2D perceived I was forlorn to do POJA and follow the Harley program.
Interestingly, my soon to be ex-wife has finally sensed that I am not going to put any more effort into making this marriage as pleasurable for her as it has been to me during the past 20 years, AKA none.
She asked why. So, I told her that I was forlorn sounding because I have a dentist appointment with my brother because of a broken tooth
I reminded her of the fact that I will be spending time with my family and will probably spend more time sitting in my brother's dentist chair than I have spend pleasurable time with her this last month.
The no contact that I so reluctantly vowed to have with my family, because I proclaimed that I found my marriage o, so important, will be broken. You understand, my brother is the only dentist in the entire USA who has the capacity to fill my tooth.
and that reminded me of my family being an issue for her.
And that reminded me what a nice and complacent and rational person I am and what an intolerant cow my wife is. I thought I should bring up the family issue, because I know it would bother her a great deal (smirk) and maybe it will get her mad enough, so that we can discuss the family issue and forgo discussions about my total inactivity last month and my putting everything else before my wife, including the condo, that I officially would only have for a very short time, because I am going to make her fall in love with me (who cares).
I saddens me to think that I she's not comfortable with them and we can't all can't coexist.
Why won't she go on sacrificing, while I throw her under the bus and lay her bruised body on the altar of my having fun with the family. Why can't she just do what I feel good about and why should I accomodate her?
She doesn't believe that and is now arguing with why I was feeling forlorn.
Doesn't anyone notice how unreasonable she is?
How do we find POJA on an issue like this?
How can I get her to let me do what I want when I want it?
Remark Remark, you could have done better in the last month. Are you actively trying to drive her away and hoping you will be able to tell all people how hard you tried (to perfect your bachelor pad) and she has sadly left you? Have you spent any pleasurable time with her this year without bringing up your family, which is the same as waving a red cloth in front of a bull?
Last edited by happyheart; 08/04/15 05:16 AM.
me, DH
all the children
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Dr Harly says you should try to make each other happy and avoid things that make the other person unhappy.
me, DH
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Quote from December 2014: If you know she has issue with your family, why did you still go there for Thanksgiving? I didn't insist on going there for Thanksgiving. My dad is 88 and I feel the need to see him a few times a year. And he lives in the same city as my brother, a dentist, and he was in the middle of some dental work on me. I see your point though. So you travelled all the way to your brother for a dental appointment...
Last edited by happyheart; 08/04/15 05:30 AM.
me, DH
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HH,
No, I have not. The only communication with his has been a couple of texts re: the tooth that was the two teeth bothering me. And whether to have them looked at here, where I live, or by him, my dentist of record.
OK, the forum is pretty clear.
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(Didn't we discuss the dentist issue last winter?) Apples, Yes, we did. And I haven't spoken or seen that family in a long time, last Thanksgiving, i believe. The forum has helped me keep my spirits up on that issue while things still get worse. Remark
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Quote from December 2014: If you know she has issue with your family, why did you still go there for Thanksgiving? I didn't insist on going there for Thanksgiving. My dad is 88 and I feel the need to see him a few times a year. And he lives in the same city as my brother, a dentist, and he was in the middle of some dental work on me. I see your point though. So you travelled all the way to your brother for a dental appointment... HH, Yes, and I have for years. There's a financial benefit and I get to see my family, and my home town. It's not a stretch for me. There's a lot of pluses for me. Remark
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What things have you done to show Day extraordinary care? Things won't improve until she is your first priority and you stop judging her perspective. You need to be trying to add to her live bank many times a day. Are you?
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On that call JD2D perceived I was forlorn to do POJA and follow the Harley program. She asked why. So, I told her that I was forlorn sounding because I have a dentist appointment with my brother because of a broken tooth and that reminded me of my family being an issue for her.
I saddens me to think that I she's not comfortable with them and we can't all can't coexist.
She doesn't believe that and is now arguing with why I was feeling forlorn.
How do we find POJA on an issue like this?
Remark Can you find the disrespectful judgment in your statements? Apples, No I can't. Here's the exchange we had: Remark: OK, how do we explore that? The only unappealing part of it revolves around my extended family. I can live without golf, softball, etc. Living with someone who is so distant is unappealing to me. Yes, the past several years with you depresses me. I aspire to better.
I want to be connected such that we share thoughts, dreams, miscellaneous conversation, with ease and without fear of judgment or criticism. Who wouldn�t that depress? I�m sure that depresses you as well.
But, you and he have convinced me that, perhaps, I am getting the cart before the horse. What more is there to explore? JD2D: You're not being honest.
We barely discussed your family on the call. Nor did we discuss the last several years. Therefore, your forlorn response to his suggestions had nothing to do with your family or the last several years.I felt like the DJ was coming from her telling me (1) I was being honest, when I most certainly was and (2) telling me my feelings which is something I'm always accused of telling her how hers are wrong. Shoot! This whole exchange started because I sincerely need help from the forum on how to find POJA on an issue where his position makes her extremely unhappy and her position makes him extremely unhappy? It's like being pregnant or having sex. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground. At least with my family issue, seeing them less, or them coming down here instead of us going up there most all of the time, seem like alternatives to me that might satisfy both spouses. I'm not saying or thinking she is an unreasonable cow. But, apparently, I come across as an unreasonable bull. Remark
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What things have you done to show Day extraordinary care? Things won't improve until she is your first priority and you stop judging her perspective. You need to be trying to add to her live bank many times a day. Are you? PoppyJ, Not so much. I am focusing on eliminating LB's per her and Dr H's instructions. But, of course, I spend time thinking of ways to meet her EN's in the future. Thanks, Remark
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When you cannot POJA an issue, the default is *do nothing*. Driving to your hometown to get dental work done by a family member, is the opposite of doing nothing.
Right now when the house is on fire, going to your brother for dental work is like throwing gasoline around. Why would you do that when this is specifically a hot issue?
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Shoot! This whole exchange started because I sincerely need help from the forum on how to find POJA on an issue where his position makes her extremely unhappy and her position makes him extremely unhappy? It's like being pregnant or having sex. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground. At least with my family issue, seeing them less, or them coming down here instead of us going up there most all of the time, seem like alternatives to me that might satisfy both spouses.
I'm not saying or thinking she is an unreasonable cow. But, apparently, I come across as an unreasonable bull.
Remark You are right, there is no middle ground, for there to be "middle ground" in this situation she would have to compromise, and that is not something she should be doing, or something you should expect her to be doing. Her position is that you put your family, and it seems just about everything, before her, she keeps telling you this and you keep basically saying "ok, ok, I'll change" and then not doing a thing to show her you care enough to actually change Your solution above is that you will see your family "less" or they can "come down" instead of you going up to them. How would that solution make her feel better about you putting them before her? It won't, period. The solution is you do nothing that makes her feel like you are putting her 2nd. You know this Remark, it has been said in this thread over, and over, and over. Stop trying to convince everyone that the acceptable POJA option is that you continue to see/communicate with your family and stop trying to convince JD2D that it is the acceptable option. If it doesn't make her feel like she is being put 1st, than it is not an option, period. Given that she feels like you are still putting her 2nd, because, well, you are, you do not keep trying to POJA this. She says this specific thing makes me feel horrible, your response should be "ok. I will not see/communicate with my family until I am putting your first 100% of the time, and you are feeling safe and secure that nothing will change that. " Way down the line, when you are actually in a good place with her, when she can clearly see that she is your first priority ALWAYS, then, and only then, would I try a POJA on this issue. You are not going to be able to come to an agreement that you are both enthusiastic about when you are still putting her 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th. Stop talking about seeing your family, find a new dentist, and start putting JD2D first.
Last edited by doesnt_want_me; 08/04/15 07:43 AM. Reason: because it's early and I can't type
BW - 32
WH - 46
D day 3/27/16
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d_w_m,
You make it sound so logical and easy.
Would that seem like a sacrifice ( on my part ) to you? Do you understand that I have scaled back on my family for some 5-8 years and I haven't talked to them except for an occasional text when a niece got engaged in the last year or two? (So, I feel like I've sacrificed for some time already. And, of course, sacrificing is not good for the long term marriage.)
Thanks,
Remark
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Remark,
It makes no difference if you have "scaled back" on your family. You have been neglecting JD2D, you have both been treating each other badly. In those 5-8 years have you put JD2D first 100% of the time, avoided LB's and followed MB? I'm going to say the answer is no. If you had been, JD2D likely would not feel the way she does right now regarding your family.
You have said you are committed to MB, and yet you are not doing the things that NEED to be done to save your marriage. Step 1) stop hurting each other. JD2D has said that this is something that hurts her. So stop doing it.
You should not be spending time/communicating with ANYONE until you are both each others favorite companion, so no, I do not see it as a "sacrifice" on your part. It is what needs to be done to save your marriage.
Do you understand that what you have said above is basically that your family is more important to you than you wife? This is why she feels you are putting her 2nd.
Stop making excuses. If you want to save your marriage you have to stop bringing it up, and stop doing it.
It it certainly not easy to cut off communication with family, but, it is what is necessary.
Last edited by doesnt_want_me; 08/04/15 08:14 AM.
BW - 32
WH - 46
D day 3/27/16
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When you cannot POJA an issue, the default is *do nothing*. Driving to your hometown to get dental work done by a family member, is the opposite of doing nothing.
Right now when the house is on fire, going to your brother for dental work is like throwing gasoline around. Why would you do that when this is specifically a hot issue? unwritten, Well, because (1) we're living separate lives per her wishes (2) it saves me big $$$ (3) I'd see my aging father at the same time (4) I love these people (5) It's my adopted home town that I enjoy (5) There is some furniture I am supposed to get for myself and a daughter who just bought a house, and I forgot the main reason, (6) I have two bad teeth [physical pain] that I've done nothing about for many months. Thanks, Remark
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When you cannot POJA an issue, the default is *do nothing*. Driving to your hometown to get dental work done by a family member, is the opposite of doing nothing.
Right now when the house is on fire, going to your brother for dental work is like throwing gasoline around. Why would you do that when this is specifically a hot issue? unwritten, Well, because (1) we're living separate lives per her wishes (2) it saves me big $$$ (3) I'd see my aging father at the same time (4) I love these people (5) It's my adopted home town that I enjoy (5) There is some furniture I am supposed to get for myself and a daughter who just bought a house, and I forgot the main reason, (6) I have two bad teeth [physical pain] that I've done nothing about for many months. Thanks, Remark These are all excuses to justify doing something that you know will hurt JD2D. Are all of these things worth losing your marriage for?
BW - 32
WH - 46
D day 3/27/16
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