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Haven't been on here in a while but I am feeling very discouraged. The whole time I have been very hopeful that things could / would change. But I am just starting to feel really down now, honestly for the first time in the separation.

He is working hard to be better, his feelings towards me have clearly changed (appreciates what he has to lose now, seems to respect me more as an equal person, acknowledges his past mistakes - he never did that before....) But even though his feelings toward us have changed, and some of his actions have changed, I am really starting to doubt that he can change his actions on a consistent basis.

I feel like I am to a point where I have been let down one too many times. For those of you who have made it through a separation, how did you not give up?

I want us to save our marriage, but am wondering if it is possible? He had been changing so much, but every-time I think things are really getting better, there is a "set-back", not any "outburst" like he was having before, in fact I am having a really hard time controlling myself around him. I just feel so hurt and damaged.

We are still separated, but do continue to have some interaction considering we work on the same campus. The recent set-back was Halloween. I had said all along that I didn't want him to miss out on Halloween since the kids are still little and love Halloween, so we all went trick or treating together. He met me at the house, we all went to his parents house to let his mom see their costumes, visited for a bit, then headed back to our neighborhood to go trick or treating. I can't even remember why he met us there, but we were getting in the car already when he showed up. I asked if he wanted to just ride with us since we were going to be coming right back anyway (we were getting along ok and I didn't think a 5 minute ride would be a big deal. He said "no, I'll just drive"... I said something to like "ok, but it isn't a big deal if you want to come with us". I thought we were getting along fine, then he made a face and said "it's typical". (Basically saying its typical that I don't get to be around my family.)

This may sound like nothing but to me it was the same kind of sly / sarcastic remarks I was used to. It was really frustrating on a day that I thought could be good. Then when we got to his parents house, he was acting weird toward me, and just in general. I don't even know how to describe it....just different / not in a good way.

Then We got back into the car to head back to the neighborhood to go trick or treating. I thought he was right behind me, and we would be showing up at the same time, but instead he shows up like 40 minutes later. By that time my family (we were all going trick or treating together) was already at the house. They were nice to him and honestly didn't make anything uncomfortable. But I could tell the second he showed up that he was acting even more "weird" / different whatever the right word.

I just tried to go on enjoying the kids. It was pretty hectic anyway because there were so many kids out and it was raining... So I was basically just chasing the little one around making sure he didn't get lost (not much interaction with anyone). Toward the end of the trick or treating my phone rang. I looked at it and turned it off. He asked "who was that?" I had no problem answering his question, I knew exactly who it was because they had called earlier and left a message when we were getting dressed. I responded "it is a real estate agent calling about our old tenants, wanting to know there payment history..." Instead of believing my response, he rarely ever does. He replied "well, how would you know that?". I replied, "because they just called a little earlier and left a message".

At this point he was seeming mad at me, for who knows what, and things went down hill. He then caught up to me and said "imagine that you carry your phone around with you" (implying that I intentionally miss his calls, which I never do.

Then he says "why would you bring your phone with you anyway (in an ugly voice). I was so put out at this point and replied, "why the F do you think, I was taking pictures of our kids, it is Halloween". Obviously I shouldn't have replied like this.....

Why once everything seems to be getting so much better, does he always go back to things like this. He thinks this is a "little setback" but I don't think he is seeming to realize those are the little things that were constantly making me miserable before, its the last thing I need to see at this point, is reminders of his "old self" and our "old life" together.

Sorry for the long post, I guess this is kind of a vent. I just don't know what to think. I was feeling hopeful and this last thing (although it may not be that big) just made me think "maybe he can't change". I want to believe he can!

I ended up telling him that I have opened up too soon, and that we need to go back to very limited communication / interaction. I had started allowing more and more when I thought things were really changing. Since then he has been respectful and says he wants a chance to prove that this time there will be no "set-backs".

Thanks for listening.

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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
This may sound like nothing but to me it was the same kind of sly / sarcastic remarks I was used to. It was really frustrating on a day that I thought could be good. Then when we got to his parents house, he was acting weird toward me, and just in general. I don't even know how to describe it....just different / not in a good way.


Are you able to see how all this contact is making things WORSE? The whole point behind separation is to stop the bleeding of your lovebank while he works on changing his behavior. Your husband should be going to anger management classes to learn to change his behavior during the separation. While separated, you should have very little contact until he has been through a program that radically changes his behavior.

Good grief, shut this down. Get separated from him and then keep all communication to email. If that doesn't work, then get an intermediary.

Quote:
At this point he was seeming mad at me, for who knows what, and things went down hill. He then caught up to me and said "imagine that you carry your phone around with you" (implying that I intentionally miss his calls, which I never do.

Then he says "why would you bring your phone with you anyway (in an ugly voice). I was so put out at this point and replied, "why the F do you think, I was taking pictures of our kids, it is Halloween". Obviously I shouldn't have replied like this.....


Angermanagementangermanagementangermanagementangermanagement. Nothing has changed!!!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Yes, I do see at this point that I opened up too early. I have explained that too him. Even if he suddenly had changed at this point, I am so fragile that it is too risky to have potential set-backs.

He seems to understand the state that I am in, and is respecting my wishes so far. It is impossible to never see each-other, but we were choosing to have additional interactions because things were going well. I see now, how risky those were. I don't have much left in me, and I have to protect the little bit of my heart that is left.

We discussed the holidays and the fact that we are going to need to have separate ones. I think this is one of the reasons I feel so sad. I know it is for the best, I have had so many holidays be ruined by him, that I know I can not set myself up for that potentially happening. I guess I had hoped that we could be "better" by then.

The only "risk" I guess we will be taking is our sons 3rd b-day party it is two weeks from now, is already planned out and only makes sense for both families (his parents / mine) to celebrate together. We are just going to the park and having a picnic, and letting the kids play on the playground.

He is going to anger managment on a weekly basis. You are right that things do not feel changed when he does things like he did on Halloween, it is in between those times that I do see change. I know that it sounds just like before, but honeslty there wasn't really "good times" even in between the bad before. We could have a good time together, that was different. But i never felt respected, supported, etc. even in between the issues.

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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
Yes, I do see at this point that I opened up too early. I have explained that too him.


nonono

Nothing to explain to him. Just do as MelodyLane suggested.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: JBKT16
Yes, I do see at this point that I opened up too early. I have explained that too him.


nonono

Nothing to explain to him. Just do as MelodyLane suggested.


I know that you went through something similar, and y'all have a happy marriage. How long did it take you to start behaving appropriately / consistently? I know everyone is different, just curious, since y'all went through a separation and came out the other end better off.

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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
He is going to anger managment on a weekly basis. You are right that things do not feel changed when he does things like he did on Halloween, it is in between those times that I do see change. I know that it sounds just like before, but honeslty there wasn't really "good times" even in between the bad before. We could have a good time together, that was different. But i never felt respected, supported, etc. even in between the issues.


All of the "good times" are negated by the bad. Your husband just wiped out all his progress in one day. This is why you need to stay away. You are great risk of completely destroying your marriage forever with all this contact. Every time he slips up and lovebusts, your lovebank takes a massive hit. It won't be long before you HATE him if you don't already. Once you come to hate him it will be very hard to ever turn around. That is what this separation was intended to avoid.

It is not in your 3 year olds best interest for you to be at a birthday party with your husband. I would plan separate parties under the circumstances. Cancel the party and take the child to Chuck E Cheeses on your own. Your husband can hold his own party.

Quote:
It is impossible to never see each-other, but we were choosing to have additional interactions because things were going well.
]

Why is it impossible? You can limit all contact to email and have no direct contact. If he acts like a jerk via email, you can shut that off too.

And I am puzzled by why you keep saying that things are "going well." For that to be true, he needs to be anger free for many, many months. When has that ever been the case?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: JBKT16
He is going to anger managment on a weekly basis. You are right that things do not feel changed when he does things like he did on Halloween, it is in between those times that I do see change. I know that it sounds just like before, but honeslty there wasn't really "good times" even in between the bad before. We could have a good time together, that was different. But i never felt respected, supported, etc. even in between the issues.




All of the "good times" are negated by the bad. Your husband just wiped out all his progress in one day. This is why you need to stay away. You are great risk of completely destroying your marriage forever with all this contact. Every time he slips up and lovebusts, your lovebank takes a massive hit. It won't be long before you HATE him if you don't already. Once you come to hate him it will be very hard to ever turn around. That is what this separation was intended to avoid.

It is not in your 3 year olds best interest for you to be at a birthday party with your husband. I would plan separate parties under the circumstances. Cancel the party and take the child to Chuck E Cheeses on your own. Your husband can hold his own party.

Quote:
It is impossible to never see each-other, but we were choosing to have additional interactions because things were going well.
]

Why is it impossible? You can limit all contact to email and have no direct contact. If he acts like a jerk via email, you can shut that off too.

And I am puzzled by why you keep saying that things are "going well." For that to be true, he needs to be anger free for many, many months. When has that ever been the case?


I have never thought things were "going well" overall....what I was saying was that there would be days here and there where things were getting much better, and I would really start to get hopeful and start opening up. Then yes, at that point the things he would do would "negate everything". There was one stretch where things were going great (for a few days) and then there was an issue (don't have time to type it all out). I told him that the things he had just said completely erased the last few "good days". His reply to that was "you are going to let 5 minutes ruin all my progress? Once again, I was the one doing something wrong, but yes, 5 minutes did ruin everything. It also made me start to believe that he could NEVER change.

My "lovebank" to a huge hit after these last two incidents. I don't feel like I have much left in me anymore. I still care about him and have love in my heart for him, but I feel like I have been destroyed to the core...

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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
[qHis reply to that was "you are going to let 5 minutes ruin all my progress? Once again, I was the one doing something wrong, but yes, 5 minutes did ruin everything. It also made me start to believe that he could NEVER change...


I don't think he understands the effect of one lovebuster. One lovebuster is like shooting a huge hole in the bottom of a pail. All of his lovebank deposits bleed out of the hole. In short, he is shooting himself in the foot.

You didn't comment on my suggestions to really separate. What you have been doing is a separation "lite" and not a true separation. Can you see how that hasn't been working?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
My "lovebank" to a huge hit after these last two incidents. I don't feel like I have much left in me anymore.


You are destroying the last chance your marriage might ever have. By the time he gets anger free, if he ever does, you will no longer be willing to give him another chance.

You need to stop seeing him and having contact with him.

And you need to quit saying it's impossible to never see him. Or at least stop seeing him. You can keep claiming it's impossible if you'll do it anyway.

Either stop seeing him and wait, or stop seeing him and file for divorce. Either way, stop seeing him.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I do think that our initial set-up was working (only texting when necessary - we don't really use email), and only seeing each-other briefly when we exchanged the kids. Then I started seeing some changes being made and started opening up more and more and allowing more talking, more interaction, etc.

I remember seeing on here that people starting "dating" again throughout the separation, and I guess I thought we were ready for that. Now I see that I should have stuck to the original plan longer, and seen more consistency BEFORE taking chances on too much interaction.

We are discussing our Thanksgiving child arrangements via text and I am so discouraged. He said for us to do our typical plan, which puts me having them Wednesday afternoon until Sunday morning, over the week of Thanksgiving (we are both off that week). He said he would bring them to me around 5 or 6 Wednesday. He knows we have a big family dinner thing with my extended family on that night, that is really important to me. I asked if he could please bring them by 3 so I will have a couple hours with them before all the company shows up.... (I wouldn't have seen them in days, which isn't "fair" anyway considering I wasn't the one who put us in this position).

Bringing them at 3 actually makes the time even, we would be "splitting" them Wednesday. Bringing them at "5 or 6" is basically having them all day considering they will be tired by 8.

So basically it has been a back and forth about 2 hours! Are you kidding me? He says he wants to win me back, he knows this means a lot to me, and wants to be difficult over 2 hours?! Am I seeing this wrong? I feel like I am getting screwed out of precious time with my babies because he couldn't act right as a husband (by not getting to see them for some days out of the week in the first place), and now I ask for something simple like bringing them before the get together and he is acting like I am the selfish one.

We have not been talking back and forth like this anymore, but this is something that had to be decided....

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
You didn't comment on my suggestions to really separate.


Come on, JBKT16. Stop ignoring this. You need to listen to MelodyLane - she knows what she's talking about!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: JBKT16
Yes, I do see at this point that I opened up too early. I have explained that too him.


nonono

Nothing to explain to him. Just do as MelodyLane suggested.


I know that you went through something similar, and y'all have a happy marriage. How long did it take you to start behaving appropriately / consistently? I know everyone is different, just curious, since y'all went through a separation and came out the other end better off.


I'll make you a deal. I'll come back and answer that after you follow MelodyLane's suggestions.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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What I meant by "impossible" is that we work at the same school, have the same conference, same exact schedule all day long. So even if we don't intentionally see each-other, sometimes we just run into each-other.

But I agree that much more and I will not be willing to give him a chance at all. I pretty much felt that way after Halloween, but decided that it was worth "waiting and seeing", giving him another chance.

I also agree that all the additional conversations and interactions need to quit before my love is completely gone.

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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
What I meant by "impossible" is that we work at the same school, have the same conference, same exact schedule all day long. So even if we don't intentionally see each-other, sometimes we just run into each-other.


The contact I am concerned about is your contact outside of school. There isn't much he can do to you at work.

Quote:
But I agree that much more and I will not be willing to give him a chance at all. I pretty much felt that way after Halloween, but decided that it was worth "waiting and seeing", giving him another chance.

I also agree that all the additional conversations and interactions need to quit before my love is completely gone.


My suggestion - once again - is to end this fake separation where you both live in the same place. A true separation means you don't live in the same place anymore. It means finding another place to live and the kids stay with you part of the time and with him part of the time.

Would your husband move out so you can stay there 100% of the time? The kids could come visit him in another location.

You need to figure out how to really separate because you are likely headed to divorce. This fake "separation" is just kicking the can down the road and keeping you connected in a way that hurts any chance of reconciliation. It is also making you sick.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Was this move in, move out his idea? Are you afraid of rocking the boat?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
You didn't comment on my suggestions to really separate.


Come on, JBKT16. Stop ignoring this. You need to listen to MelodyLane - she knows what she's talking about!


I understand y'all are right, and I can see it playing out just as y'all are saying.

To be honest, I have a hard time answering some of these questions (but I am not at all ignoring y'all) because I know he is reading every word I say, then I get text commenting on how I listen to y'all and need to talk to someone else. It's not that I am not listening and taking in everything you are saying, just don't like every comment I write on here getting thrown back in my face. (Just like I know this one will....)

I appreciate every single reply on this thread and I know if I never found "marriage builders" I would be still under the same roof going through hell, or in the middle of a divorce.

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: JBKT16
What I meant by "impossible" is that we work at the same school, have the same conference, same exact schedule all day long. So even if we don't intentionally see each-other, sometimes we just run into each-other.


The contact I am concerned about is your contact outside of school. There isn't much he can do to you at work.

Quote:
But I agree that much more and I will not be willing to give him a chance at all. I pretty much felt that way after Halloween, but decided that it was worth "waiting and seeing", giving him another chance.

I also agree that all the additional conversations and interactions need to quit before my love is completely gone.


My suggestion - once again - is to end this fake separation where you both live in the same place. A true separation means you don't live in the same place anymore. It means finding another place to live and the kids stay with you part of the time and with him part of the time.

Would your husband move out so you can stay there 100% of the time? The kids could come visit him in another location.

You need to figure out how to really separate because you are likely headed to divorce. This fake "separation" is just kicking the can down the road and keeping you connected in a way that hurts any chance of reconciliation. It is also making you sick.


The "move in / move out" was my idea because I thought it would be the best for the kids, especially the 5 year old, to have some consistency through all of this.

The coming and going from the house hasn't been the issue. I have my stuff ready and leave when he gets there. The problem has actually been a few conversations that have unfolded at school, as well as the additional time that I willing spent with him (the date night / Halloween) because I thought things were getting better.

If I would have cut out everything but the brief child exchange, I think things would have been going ok at this point. The other problem is the texting. I said it was ok if there was a question about the kids that sort of thing, but he is constantly texting and a lot of times it ends in me being frustrated. (Although there has been nice conversations on days where things were going good.)

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Was this move in, move out his idea? Are you afraid of rocking the boat?


I have been so accustomed to not "rocking the boat" for so long.... And yes, that is a very accurate description with why I continue texting, etc. But the house thing I honestly did in the best interest of our kids.

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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Was this move in, move out his idea? Are you afraid of rocking the boat?


I have been so accustomed to not "rocking the boat" for so long.... And yes, that is a very accurate description with why I continue texting, etc. But the house thing I honestly did in the best interest of our kids.


The goal and purpose of separation is to become emotionally separated and if changes are not made, to be prepared to be divorced. What you are doing is not separation at all. You still live together, text each other, etc.

What is best for your kids is for their parents to be separated because of the emotional toll on their mother. What you are doing is most likely to result in divorce. This separation was intended to give you a better chance.

THAT is in the best interest of your children. Will your husband move out and let you stay there full time with the kids? If you are so concerned about the kids sleeping in their beds at night, your H could just take them out on playdates like most divorced couples do. For example, he could take them on Saturday afternoon and WEdnesday nights, but bring them back home at 8pm.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
[
The "move in / move out" was my idea because I thought it would be the best for the kids, especially the 5 year old, to have some consistency through all of this.


There are better ways to achieve consistency.


Quote:
The coming and going from the house hasn't been the issue. I have my stuff ready and leave when he gets there. The problem has actually been a few conversations that have unfolded at school, as well as the additional time that I willing spent with him (the date night / Halloween) because I thought things were getting better.


Yes, it is an issue when you live together when you are supposed to be separated. This is a set up that is not sustainable and just keeps you emotionally entrenched. You are both still living together.

Quote:
If I would have cut out everything but the brief child exchange, I think things would have been going ok at this point.


ONCE AGAIN, you are using judgment that has failed you at every turn. It is beyond frustrating when you ignore the advice and then complain when your own special plan fails.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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