We already know what a WS thinks, though. Keep in mind that Dr Harley has been doing this for 40 years. Anger over exposure is a sign of the fog. The ones who come out of the fog are typically grateful because a) their husbands fought for them and b) it saved their marriage.

Last night we had a talk. It was a little disconcerting. We were going to talk about if we were going to have "separate lives" and live in the same house, or if we were going to separate and have to sell the house. She brought up the past again and I listened. Then she said, "but I don't want to drag up the past"! What bothered me was that after the spew, she was calm and very convincing that she didn't think she could fall in love with me because after all that happened she doesn't even like me anymore. Who I am as a person is not who she would want to be with. I am not the right person for her.

So I question myself as to if this is really where things are and I should give up, or if that is just how she is right then and there is no reason I can't rebuild a connection with following Plan A and being patient.

FlightLevel, SHE IS IN THE FOG. All of that is fog babble. All of it. Beyond stereotypical fog babble. Stop buying what she's trying to sell you, its counterfeit.

One of the reasons we tell betrayed spouses not to have discussions like this is because it is useless. It is like having a serious discussion about life with a falling down drunk. The solution is to expose the affair, kill it first and THEN have these discussions once the affair is ended.


Any discussion about "separation" should be to explain that there is no such thing as a "separation" when you live in the same house. An "in house separation" is an oxymoron. The only thing you should say to her is that you are not "separated." You are married. Its ok to pretend like you are "separated" if you are high on narcotics or an affair, but you are not high. So please don't give premise to something that does not exist.

Your best hope is to expose the affair as we discussed. That will burst her fantasy, possibly kill the affair and give you a chance. However, you cannot meet her needs in Plan A as long as her lovebank is closed to you and open to someone else.

You posted this on another thread:


Please tell us about the swinging in your marriage. For how long did it go on? What makes you call the current event an "affair", if you were swingers in the past?

edit

I see that you did tell us about the swinging, a few days ago.

What happened there? How long ago was it? Did you both do it? What do you mean by "there was some damage done there"?

I guess it was about 10 years ago now. We had a couple we were friends with and were "more than friends" twice. We stayed friends with them and never did it again after that. It was done together, same room, as a foursome. We never intended to have an open marriage. It seemed fun at the time, she seemed to enjoy it, but I think it bothered her after the fact as not consistent with her values. Of course now it becomes a big part of her re-writing history. But I do get that there was probably hurt as she looked back on it, like "why did I do that?" and "why didn't he protect me from that?". I am just listing any of the love busters I know about that she has told me over the years. I can see how she would process that and feel hurt by it and blame me. It just doesn't excuse her affair now a decade later.

And just to be clear, I did expose to everyone on our side of the fence, just not the OM's fence yet. I did confront him though. He is a POS, believes her story of what hell I put her through "all these years". Kept trying to get me to move into the street so he could beat me up and "settle this". I just looked at him and asked, "what are you 8 years old?"

It is not a PA and if there is any contact, I have not found out about any since a text a month and a half ago. But I am obviously suspicious they may be texting and waiting for me to give up.

I am afraid it may have been more of a trickle exposure though. I had not found help resources and was just reacting. I am a talker and went to anyone who would listen for help on how to deal with this and save my marriage. I was still in shock. I told everyone in my family, everyone in her family, and her friends, people in our church. Her pastor talked to her, her only femail friend, My family, her Mom spoke with her and then her Dad did about 2 months ago. She was upset and crying and saying how I hurt her by not being mature and keeping it between us.

But her Dad was finding out more info and upset there hasn't been improvement. He called me last week and wanted to talk and hear my version. He then sent her a scathing email. That led to us all talking together and him calling her on a few things. That is the most recent "upset" in that I got:

"you haven't changed" and...

"this is all your fault, you couldn't have loved me and done this, dealing with everyone instead of keeping it between us" and...

"I can't be your friend because I can't trust you. I can't expose my heart to you you keep hurting me. You embarassed me and humiliated me to my family. There are consequences to your actions. You badmouthed me to everyone and expect me to reconcile with you???"...

I said, "You are right. there are consequences to your actions. An affair is a horrible thing. If you had not done something so embarassing an humiliating and shameful, you wouldn't have to be dealing with this now".

Each time she found out about someone else I spoke with, it created a storm. "Who else have you told? Who else am I going to have to find heard YOUR false story of what is going on? Did you tell them about the hell YOU put me through?"

So we are "back at square one" according to her and she is being very distant. Things are tense in the house, but I go on with Plan A and engage her without pursuing or pushing her or doing any more love busters. Strangely though, on this roller coaster ride, she "cleared" for a moment and gave me a compliment. Compliments were not big with her in our relationship, one of the things I told her I would like more of. So I was surprised that in the middle of her anger at me, she came to me and told me how nice I looked today. I was so shocked, I didn't know what to say.

The big glaring gaps here are exposing to the OM's wife and your children. Have you done that yet?

Have you set up spy resources to get evidence of what she is doing now?

Also, have you confirmed that the OM has left that job?

My concern is that you are focusing on the wrong things. Instead of posting meaningless fogbabble, you could use that time doing productive things, such as exposing the affair and finding ways to spy on her. I am sure the affair is still active, however, it has just gone underground.

And you have to ask yourself why she has not moved out in with the OM? Is it because he is still at home with his wife? He played the same game your wife played and claimed to be "separated" and therefore, eligible. And even if he were truly "separated," he is still married. "Separated" means married.

Does he still work at your wife's workplace?

Can you focus on productive things instead of her fogbabble?

Yes to the children. This has split the family since the older children (by her prev. M), both out of the house, have chosen sides, something I have tried to have them not do. One I am close to, the other is basically my W's enabler and confidant, but she is being fed the fog talk. The youngest (by our M) knows from D-Day "what mommy really did when she said she was shopping and why she wants to break up the family". She is handling this by ignoring the situation and not speaking about it. No on the OM's ex wife yet and yes about trying to see if there is current contact.

What is the appropriate response to, "I have just been waiting for you to catch up and give you time to accept that we are not a couple anymore. It is over. If you loved me like you say, you would let me go. You can't make someone love you who doesn't want to be with you." (with appropriate reference to the little bird parable). In particular, how do you answer the part about, "If you loved/cared about me/had any self-respect, you would let me go"?

Was your child given the full facts about the affair? Does she have the name of the OM?

What all are you doing to contact the OM's wife?

You can ask her if she would like a potato chip. Or perhaps a cup of coffee? Does she like coffee?

The point I am trying to make is that it is ludicrous to try and reason with someone who is high on an affair. It is like trying to reason with a falling down drunk.

This is why your mission is to kill the affair so she will sober up. The only way to reason with a falling down drunk is to wait for him to sober up. You wouldn't try to reason with him while he is drunk, though.

I know you are reading and replying to a lot of posts, but I will repeat the answers to these again. OM was FIRED from the job early into the EA. Just before that he LEFT HIS WIFE in another town and moved just down the road from us. I infer he assumed she would leave me and move in with him. It shocked her and she did not talk to him for a while, but he still worked there then. Since being fired, and all the exposure, she either has gone deep underground or just told him "don't wait for me, but if I get divorced and you are still around we can try again".

LOL about the coffee. But seriously, don't asnwer or counter or acknowledge a question about why I won't move on or "what it would take to let go"?

I just edited since I see maybe you answered this last question as I was writing.

I read this all before and I don't understand why you are posting it again. Do you have actual PROOF that the OM was fired? What is your PROOF?

And as far as him leaving his wife, that means nothing. First off, you don't KNOW that. And secondly, it doesn't matter becasue he is married.

Does he still live down the road from you?

Do you not see how irrational that statement is? How could you possibly respond to such an irrational comment? You can't stop her from going so the notion she needs you to "let her go" makes no sense. She is free to walk out the door.