Are you just journaling your fears, worries and diagnosis of your wife? or are you really going to do something?

I am doing everything I can.. keep the ideas coming. I am trying to fix a problem here by talking about the symptoms and I don't know what is causing it. Is this an affair? Is it mental illness? Is this a mid-life crisis, an Axis 2 disorder, bipolar, narcissism??? When you are dealing with crazy behavior, it just makes you go crazy too if you can't put a label on it. It makes you go crazy. I am desperately trying to get this diagnosed so I can take the right actions.

If I can plan A this woman to be in love with me... then, I think I can influence her. Love will make you do things you wouldn't normally do.. .such as go get help! That seems like the easiest way to help my kids... get their mom help! getting mom out of their lives is going to be a long expensive process that probably won't work in the end.

STOP trying to fix her, you can't. You are wasting your thoughts and energy on this, STOP IT. You trying to act like a doctor, "i have to label it and diagnose it", do you realize how futile and frankly arrogant that sounds. I am sure you are projecting this at home (even if you think you aren't) and it is pushing your wife away.

The only person you can control is yourself, so start controlling what you do,

Are you suggesting that I ignor her behavior? Act like it is normal and just try to live with it? Should I set the example for my kids that this is normal and they should accept it?

I thought that by diagnosing it... I could at least tell my kids "this is a mental disorder" , you don't need to grow up and behave this way, it's not normal etc... now, we are all gaslighted every day into thinking we are all crazy... we all have to walk on eggshells... how can I let my kids grow up this way?

You have to ignore it to some degree. The best approach is to call her out on her bad behavior in a non-judgemental, and no angry outbursts, calm, cool and collected.

I am not good with words, so maybe someone else can weigh in.

I don't recall if you have told your kids about the affair, if so, then they already know why she is behaving badly. (i have found that kids dealing with marriage crisis are way smarter and in tune, than we give them credit)
If you have to tell your kids something, simply say "that is not the proper way to act/behave."

The other thing is... I don't know what to do with this woman at this point. Do I even want her back or not... I really don't know? I really don't know what I am up against.

I'm going to go spend a fortune on lawyers and I'm trying to protect my children... but what I am protecting them from? This is crazy.... I don't even know what I'm fighting against. I'm tired of reacting to her insanity... I want to be on the offensive... be a step ahead; why is it too much to want to know what the heck is going on? What is the problem that we are facing and trying to solve here?????? Other posters here go up against an "affair"... it's a huge problem, but Dr Harley has a plan, and you put the plan in practice. I don't even know what the enemy is that I am trying to fight... can you not see how frustrating that is????

How about just calling it mental illness. You don't need the specifics. It's a distraction and a way for you to try to feel in control. You are putting all of your energy in the wrong place. Get to work on how to EXTRACT yourself and the kids from this. It can be done.

i understand your desire to know what is wrong so you can try to fix it, i think we all want that.
The problem is your wayward is controlled by an addiction. The addiction drives the crazy behavior, to obtain more of the 'fix" she craves. You are an extreme barrier to the "fix". The behaviors you describe indicate to me she is trying provoke you into a fight or drive you to move out. The behaviors are vary common for a wayward.

You are correct, you are in a fight. You are in a fight with someone not in their right mind. You are fighting for your family against the OM and the addiction that is in your waywards brain.

To be on the offensive, you have to build a database and get on the record with professionals (doctors, school, counselors).

I think that the best way to get us out of this is a court ordered psychiatric evaluation. It will cost me about $7,500 or so to get done. I would hate to go through all that if this is just withdrawal... if it is withdrawal.. it should go away with time.

I do know my wife does NOT want this evaluation. I think, deep down, she knows there is something wrong... otherwise she WOULD want it because it would prove that she is a fit parent or even that I am unfit parent and she would then get primary custody of the kids.

Good luck.

I think this makes a lot of sense... I am the barrier for her to get whatever it is that she wants. Per the discussion with Dr. Harley.. she probably knows that the OM won't work out for her, but he is still a "fix" and she is extremely selfish and doesn't like to be "told" what to do. We always struggled with negotiating in our marriage because my wife became so emotional about it, but mostly, I gave her what she wanted until she got a boyfriend. It was not until then that the truely obscene behavior started. It's like a big grown up 3 year old tantrum.

I have a plan A question (putting everything else aside). My WW refuses to go out with me. After I got home yesterday, she did want to sit in the formal living room, have a drink, and just vent about her day. Great! so much better that she talk to me instead of the OM, so I am there to listen. My younger son gets so mad that we are talking, be gets in between us, starts hitting me... and literally says "stop talking"... it's no wonder why Dr Harley says that kids ruin marriages. Any thoughts or suggestions on getting love units through while the kids are around? My wife clearly appreciates having someone to talk to... why on earth will she not just go out with me? even just as friends. ... why do you need to be in love with someone just to be willing to go out without the kids?

Just keep inviting her to spend time with you alone. You might consider arranging for someone to take care of the kids sometime when you know she is likely to feel talkative.

Give her your attention as best as you can even when the child is distracting.

So this weekend, we went to another house in the neighborhood for the kids to play. I thought that given that it was Saturday, other dad's would be there. On top of that, I try not to have my WW go anywhere alone unless I really have too. I was wrong though... only other moms were there. I could see in my WW's eyes that she was angry. I was friendly and talked to them, but my WW wanted nothing to do with me and she made one really nasty comment to me. The next day, we were talking about a children's movie and she made comments about me seeing it with another woman and her son. (Completely untrue). She acts and talks like I'm having the affair and she isn't. Has this ever happened before? How do I respond to this in plan A?

I don't know how many heard my program with Dr Harley..

Basically, he didn't really know what was going on with my wife and the OM... was she in love with him? He wanted to figure out what is behind her behavior.. possibly that she feels that I do not care for her which is making her extremely angry and behaving erratically. The solution is for us to give each other 15 hours of undivided attention to deposit love units and make her feel cared for.

We live together, are parenting our kids, and I am supporting her.. she ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to have lunch with me, grab a coffee, go out for dinner, or anything where the two of us would be alone... what gives???? I'm not demanding that she fall in love with me instantly.. but just have a cup of coffee???? come on... who would refuse a cup of coffee with the person putting food on your table????

She has said to me: "why would I want to spend time with someone that doesn't give me all their money or other things that I ask for?" It's completely absurd the excuses she comes up with.

She says I have "treated her badly for 14 years".. I say "6 of the 14 years were before we got married... how do you marry someone that treats you badly for 6 years!!!?"... she responds "love is blind"... this sounds very similar to the "but I'm not in love with you" line which is almost always the sign of an affair.

She also get very uncomfortable if I sit next to her on the couch or something like that.

To me... these are tell-tail signs of an AFFAIR... not someone that simply feels uncared for.

BUT... I'm really struggling to find any signs that this affair is on going. I can account for most of her time, most of the people she is texting with (when I do get a glimpse of her phone, I don't see the OM man in the top 5 or so...) she is being less secretive about using her phone, although she doesn't let me really have access to it.

Are there any other explanations for this behavior other than an affair? Could this be withdrawal behavior.. even though it has likely been more than 3 months since her and the OM were together?

Another thing she is doing is feeling very entitled... she opens my mail (when I ordered new checks in my name), she picks up my cell phone and goes through it, she takes my debit card and refuses to give it back to me so she can shop online.. etc... she is very bold about crossing boundaries with me and doing things regardless of how I feel.

Any ideas on how I can figure out what is going on? Could this be just getting through withdrawal? (Dr Harley says in his book that during withdrawal there can be anger and a host of behaviors all in a very intense form which I have certainly seen, and love units don't really get through, which might explain her refusing to spend time with me, etc...)

Any thoughts?

1. Transparency goes both ways.

2. Are you committing any love busters?

3. Are the dates proposed too casual? Perhaps you need some low intensity but formal activity to start, like a first date. Could you ask her for a new first date, hire a babysitter to come 1 hour before you pick her up and take her to a movie/concert/show, followed by dinner? Wth a promise not to talk about anything that isn't fun and interesting? (The extra hour of babysitting gives her freedom to prepare.)

Frankly, you two need some fun.

PS I know you are love busting her, it's in your previous post.

Next time she says you treated her badly, tell her you want to change so both of you can be happy. Ask her to make a list of problems, aka love busters, so you will know what to work on.

As far as your son interrupting you , could you get a babysitter for times when you are both home but want the kids out of your hair? I did that in high school for a couple who shared a love of gardening.

#1 Transparency... yes, I am willing to show her anything if she asks, but she expects her stuff to be secret/ private. She just takes stuff without my permission though.. whats up with that?
#2 Love busters... She would say YES! but she is bringing up a love buster from perhaps 10 years ago when we had a fight as if it is happening today. If I look at the last 12 months: No angry outbursts, no disrespect, no independent behavior (except filing for divorce), only demands are to stop abusing me... the biggest love busters that she would claim is a)I am not giving her my entire paycheck and letting her run wild... .. which makes her EXTREMELY angry b) I am being somewhat insistent that she spend some time with me...

I don't know what to do though... here is how the conversation goes..
"what day this week might be good for us to have lunch together?"
"I am busy this week, I cannot meet you for lunch, I have too much to do"
"how about next week?"
"no, I am always busy"
"how about we go out for dinner and talk about xyz topic that you are interested in.. I will get a babysitter"
"you will get a baby sitter?? how inappropriate for you to be contacting younger girls to come babysit... you must be some kind of pervert"
"I have found a babysitter sho I can contact through another male friend that I have"
"why do I want to spend time with you who don't give me what I want.. give me your entire paycheck first.. then we can talk"
"I am happy to share my entire paycheck with you if we can decide together how to spend our money following the POJA... but we need to do this in the context of a husband /wife relationship. I cannot just give all my money to someone that is not acting as my wife and will not spend any time with me"
dirty look.. silence.. etc...

Any ideas on what I am doing wrong?