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Dr Harley has clearly stated that even he an experienced clinical psychologist, should not pyschoanalyze his spouse. He has certainly not given any of us leave , do so. I believe he said that he would not give his own spouse a diagnosis... but he did not say anything about having his own opinions. If your spouse was an alcoholic or drug addict would you ignore that? If you spouse is showing extreme symptoms of illness what do you do if you care about them? What if my wife had a brain tumor...and that was causing all this? Again, I have not voiced any of thus to her...if anything, the idea of her having possible mental illness has made me more compassionate and tolerant towards her. It has helped me a lot avoiding love busters... in the past, I might have taken her behavior personally and gotten angry. I have all but eliminated ALL anger... I might get frustrated with her... but there is no anger what so ever. I have written Dr Harley about this topic... I will let you know how he responds. You CONSTANTLY talk about how crazy you can think she is. She knows exactly what you think of her. There is no way you can talk about this all the time and not behave accordingly. You have also said that you have taken her to multiple shrinks who can only diagnose her with personality disorders, thing is, if you know the DSM-V, EVERYONE can be diagnosed with personality disorders. Basically anyone doing something other than what the observer wants has a personality disorder. There is also NO imaging or histologic evidence of personality disorders, while all other categories of diagnoses have evidence outside the mind of the practioner. My understanding is that difference in the brain have been detected on brain scans for BPD. Also, the professionals I have talked to have told me there is a standard battery of tests that they use. I am possibly going to spend a small fortune on these tests if I follow through with what the court has ordered. I really want to make sure the testing is worth it before I pay for it.
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prior to the affair, what were her complaints? Address those.
This is a woman who feels trapped. If you want the marriage to survive, you have to help her escape WITH you.
If you don't want to do the work, then end the marriage. None of us will blame you. You have every right to divorce.
Last edited by apples123; 12/03/15 10:10 PM.
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Dr Harley has clearly stated that even he an experienced clinical psychologist, should not pyschoanalyze his spouse. He has certainly not given any of us leave , do so. I believe he said that he would not give his own spouse a diagnosis... but he did not say anything about having his own opinions. If your spouse was an alcoholic or drug addict would you ignore that? If you spouse is showing extreme symptoms of illness what do you do if you care about them? What if my wife had a brain tumor...and that was causing all this? Again, I have not voiced any of thus to her...if anything, the idea of her having possible mental illness has made me more compassionate and tolerant towards her. It has helped me a lot avoiding love busters... in the past, I might have taken her behavior personally and gotten angry. I have all but eliminated ALL anger... I might get frustrated with her... but there is no anger what so ever. I have written Dr Harley about this topic... I will let you know how he responds. I have only ever found poster presentations, no actual articles in peer-reviewed journals. Again, if everyone can be diagnosed, it isnt a disease. You CONSTANTLY talk about how crazy you can think she is. She knows exactly what you think of her. There is no way you can talk about this all the time and not behave accordingly. You have also said that you have taken her to multiple shrinks who can only diagnose her with personality disorders, thing is, if you know the DSM-V, EVERYONE can be diagnosed with personality disorders. Basically anyone doing something other than what the observer wants has a personality disorder. There is also NO imaging or histologic evidence of personality disorders, while all other categories of diagnoses have evidence outside the mind of the practioner. My understanding is that difference in the brain have been detected on brain scans for BPD. Also, the professionals I have talked to have told me there is a standard battery of tests that they use. I am possibly going to spend a small fortune on these tests if I follow through with what the court has ordered. I really want to make sure the testing is worth it before I pay for it.
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I have found a couple of meeting posters, basically a drop in the bucket. Again, if everyone can be diagnosed, it isnt a disease.
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Yes, I have a thought: She says I have "treated her badly for 14 years".. I say "6 of the 14 years were before we got married... how do you marry someone that treats you badly for 6 years!!!?"... she responds "love is blind"... In the Marriage Builders plan, you don't debate your wife like this. Whether she has a personality disorder or not, you don't do this. If you debate your wife, you will lose your marriage. If you're here to learn how to use this program, we can help you save your marriage, but if you are here to give us a play by play of the debates you have with her, this is never going to work and you might as well see a divorce attorney and stop seeing or talking to her to spare yourself the trauma.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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We live together, are parenting our kids, and I am supporting her.. she ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to have lunch with me, grab a coffee, go out for dinner, or anything where the two of us would be alone... what gives???? I'm not demanding that she fall in love with me instantly.. but just have a cup of coffee???? come on... who would refuse a cup of coffee with the person putting food on your table????
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She also get very uncomfortable if I sit next to her on the couch or something like that. My wife was like that for years. Are there any other explanations for this behavior other than an affair? Yes. Dr. Harley has a whole page about it.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I don't know what to do though... I do. My wife responded like that to invitations to spend time together for a long, long time. I was able to turn this around in my marriage.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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[spoiler][/spoiler]Any time you tell someone their feelings are not real you are being disrespectful. my goal is to show her empathy not disrespect and not fight back. What should I say? You should say "okay" to your wife. Then you should mention one reason why she is correct in what she is saying. For example, "That would bother me, too."
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Personally, turning you down for lunch was completely rational. You arent fun to be around and you cant be troubled to ask her for a dat. If you had asked that way for the first date, you would never have married.
It helps if you dont presume she will conform to MB priciples until you change your behavior and follow the principles. Ok, I agree. I will change the way I have been going about it. The part that frustrates me is that she expects me to give her money and do everything else she asks me to, but she is putting nothing into to marriage... I feel like such a fool giving into her extreme selfishness. I will try the less demanding approach and see what happens. Perhaps, I will make a goal to ask her to do something 3 to 5 times a week with no demand or expectation and see what happens. I don't know why the disrespect thing keeps coming up about the psycho analysis. Dr Harley has addressed this many times. It is OK to have thoughts... and thinking psychotic behavior is psychotic or thinking having an affair is immoral is fine and justified. He says that voicing it serves no useful purpose for the goal of saving a marriage. He has made that point on his radio program multiple times. I do think I am showing disrespect in other ways though... I am trying to avoid it, but it's hard to thread the needle. For example, telling her to stop abusing the kids is disrespectful... but I am trying to protect them. Limiting the amount of money she has access to is also disrespectful, but she got an apartment on the other side of the country, filled it with furniture, and spent the entire summer sitting on the beach while I worked full time and took care of the kids. If I did not limit her access to our funds, we would be bankrupt. Plan A is really hard when being taken advantage of this way and the WW's behavior is so destructive. I appreciate the suggestion on how to avoid the love busters while trying to avoid being walked all over.... In order to learn how to avoid being walked all over, you need to learn to talk respectfully about the problems she causes you, even when you are talking to other people. When you can do that, you will increase your ability to think creatively about new ways to solve these problems that she will like, without making sacrifices on your part. You need to learn how to express her viewpoint, respectfully. Ask Dr. Harley if he agrees with this recommendation.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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My wife finally had a sit down talk with me. She asked why I wanted to reconcile with her. I told her that I cared about her and wanted to be with her for the long term. She said that she wants me to just get the divorce. She said that she just can't be a good wife to me.
I said fine... but have you thought this through? She said no.. she doesn't really have a plan. I said that we probably needed to get moved out if the house ASAP because we need to end all the pain an suffering I am enduring and I am concerned about my health and the kids. I also think I want full custody of the kids but she was willing only to split custody.
In a way, I feel a huge weight lifted off my shoulders...in a way, I am devistated... but in another way, I think it will be good for her to know what divorce is going to be like.
I just don't know what to do now. Should I try to talk her out of it? I really want the pain and suffering to end so my emotions are telling me to get divorced ASAP to end this.
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We agreed to talk again tomorrow. I really don't know what to do... I either want to talk her out of this or get her separated from me to end the pain. She kept saying that I filed for divorce on her... and I said no, this is your decision to not work on the marriage. Any thoughts? What do I do?
She wants divorce, but for me to be there for her when she needs help with the kids, she wants financial support from me, and she still wants to do things together. I said no...you don't get any of that stuff.
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What do you want?
If to save the marriage, standrd MB reply :" I willing to build a romantic marriage that makes us both happy. Do you want to join me in building a marriage like that?"
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That is basically what I said. I asked if the truth was that she just didn't want to be in a good marriage like that. She basically said no... I just can't be a good wife to you.
I just don't know what is going on in her head...I said it is clear that you don't love me.. but, I still don't know what your goal is.. is the OM going to move here to be with you? No, are you going to move their? No. How are you going to support yourself? Same as I do now... she makes $100/week. She asked, will you give me some money to buy food for the kids when they are with me? I said yes. I said, you want a divorce.. I don't want one, but I'll give it to you. If you want a divorce, I can no longer care for you. She said that she thought would always care for eachother. I said no. I said that you really need to go find a place to live... do you have a plan for that? No.
I really don't know what to do. She really seems intent on being divorced, but she seems to have no plan.
What do I want? It is to build a great marriage with her or someone else if not her. I want my kids to have the gift of two parents. I also don't know if I can continue to take the pain and suffering she is putting me through.
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At this point...I have a few options that I am thinking of:
1. I can say.. I won't divorce you. If you want to divorce me, I can't stop you, but I care for you and want to build a good marriage, so I won't do it.
2. OK, I will divorce. But I need to separate from you for my health and well being. I need you to move somewhere as soon as possible. How can we make that happen?
3. OK, I will divorce. .. but I want to work on a relationship with you.
She said that the reason she wants to divorce is because I listen to Dr Harley's books and not her. I filed divorce on her. Basically, I did not believe her that she did not have an affair. I listened to the marriage councilor and the children's councilor and not her.
I can try to convince her how much I care and to put off the divorce decision... or I can take this as a gift to end my pain and suffering with her.. what do I do?
The other thing is... all of a sudden, if we get divorced, she says that she wants to stop abusing me and get along for the kids. The fact that she is willing to stop abusing me makes me want to stay with her.
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Another thing we talked about was child custody. I told her that I may want full custody... I don't know. She said that she wants the kids during the week and me to have them on the weekend. I said, are you serious? Do you know what that is like? She said yes, I do it now. I said no, you haven't worked full time and taken care of the kids. I have and I know what it is like, you don't. ..
Again.. she doesn't seem to have thought this through. She doesn't have enough income now to even sign a lease. It has been 7 months now since I filed for divorce and she has made no plans for being divorced. Dr Harley says that women usually have a plan... but she does not. I am just struggling a little with finalizing this divorce that she hasn't thought through... maybe we need to go through with it for her to feel the reality of it..as Dr Harley suggested.
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prior to the affair, what were her complaints? Address those.
This is a woman who feels trapped. If you want the marriage to survive, you have to help her escape WITH you.
If you don't want to do the work, then end the marriage. None of us will blame you. You have every right to divorce. Her complaints are angry outbursts... I eliminated them completely a year ago, she still has them. Family commitment... I spend 30+hours a week on family stuff and come home for dinner every night. Lack of going out... I take her out a couple times a week at least..just not alone, she refuses. Lack of conversation... I ask her about her day and the problems she is facing daily. She wants my entire paycheck... I did give it to her for a month, but she did not want the responsibility nor to pay bills together. She wanted more vacations... I do that for her. She wants control of everything going on inside the house and gets extremely upset if I don't do exactly what she says... that is a hard one.
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What fun outing could you have that would be low intensity? Bumper Cars, kite flying,
Would she be more willing if you promise there will be NO relationship talk through b the whole date?
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That is basically what I said. I asked if the truth was that she just didn't want to be in a good marriage like that. She basically said no... I just can't be a good wife to you.
I just don't know what is going on in her head...I said it is clear that you don't love me.. (disrespectful)
but, I still don't know what your goal is.. is the OM going to move here to be with you? No, are you going to move their? No. How are you going to support yourself? (rude- attempting to straighten your spouse out)
)
Same as I do now... she makes $100/week. She asked, will you give me some money to buy food for the kids when they are with me? I said yes. I said, you want a divorce..
I don't want one, but I'll give it to you. If you want a divorce, I can no longer care for you. She said that she thought would always care for eachother. I said no. I said that you really need to go find a place to live... do you have a plan for that? No.(so you are kicking her out, or threatening to, how does that help plan A)l
I really don't know what to do. She really seems intent on being divorced, but arshe seems to have no plan.
What do I want? It is to build a great marriage with her or someone else if not her. ( do you have your eye on someone already?)
I want my kids to have the gift of two parents. I also don't know if I can continue to take the pain and suffering she is putting me through. If you can't take it, end the marriage. But please stop pretending you are in Plan A. You seem to want her lead the recovery but that is not going to happen.
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She kept saying that I filed for divorce on her... and I said no, this is your decision to not work on the marriage. Any thoughts? What do I do? Quit debating her. It's disrespectful. Try Plan A.
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