Firstly, straitening her out is not my intent... I really just want to get some information from her so I can make a decision on what to do.

I am completely confused as to what I should do... am I in plan A or in plan B????

plan B means she needs to move out, plan A means I take care of her best I can and meet her needs.

She wants a divorce, but still want me to meet needs for financial support & family commitment. If I meet her needs and she has the freedom she wants.. she has the best of both worlds... what incentive would she ever have to work on our marriage?

I am really confused if I should follow plan A or plan B... I think Dr Harley recommended "plan B" she needs to feel the full effects of the divorce.. which she clearly does not seem prepared for. I wanted her to understand that in the long run.. if we are divorced.. I can't be doing all these family activities together because no other potential woman should tolerate that.

Any idea what I should do? Plan A or plan B? I feel like if I continue with a divorce and plan A at the same time.. I am really doing a mixture of plan A and plan B. Should I talk her into staying in the house as long as possible? I feel that that would take a toll on my health and be confusing for the children.

I did try to lecture her on what divorce means.. I know I shouldn't do that.. .it is disrespectful, but my only other alternative is to let he feel the effects of the divorce for herself which is probably what I need to do. I want to be kind and nice to her through the divorce process, but I don't want to give away the store either...

Should I withdraw my petition for divorce... then go into plan A and simply let her file divorce on me if she wants to? She seems to be trying to for me to divorce her guilt free because it is my filing.

I've been suffering through this for a year.. and suffering with her not meeting any of my needs for several years... how long do I continue to try to save this before searching for happiness somewhere else? Maybe 1 more year? Dr Harley seems to recommend 2 years.

If I can talk to my wife tonight... what should I say? She caught me this morning, brought me a cup of coffee and was really sweet to me and said I've been thinking and I want to have a really nice civil divorce with you where we are not fighting. She has not seemed so happy and sweet to me in a long time.

What do you think my best option is to give me and my kids the best shot at a healthy family and healthy example of a marriage? Should I try to win my wife over who never seemed to buy into the Marriage builders principles and convince her to do it? Is is possible to find someone else at my age with two kids already who would be willing to follow the marriage builders program? Where do you find such women? do they exist?

This first article really hits home really hard!!! My wife says that I am too controlling, but I don't feel that I am. I feel that I just ask her to take my feelings into account and she really doesn't like it if I say NO. When I said she could not have this boyfriend, she turned off to our marriage like a "light switch"...

Also, she had been in love with me for at least 10-12 years of our 14 years together... as this article points out, if I was really abusive to her, she would not have hung on that long because my abuse would have destroyed her love. I think that she felt that she was losing control after we moved and she began the intense "independent behavior"

I would really like to share some of this with her but I know I can't.

The second article really describes alot of our fights... she would be abusive to me and I would be abusive back... I didn't think it was abuse at the time.. just fighting fire with fire; but I eliminated my side of the fight more than a year ago (exactly as the article points out) but she kept hers side up. At times, I still made disrespectful judgements...although I tired not to, but the anger part I found VERY easy to control. I can feel the tensions building and I sooth myself or take a time out very easily... this has become instinctual for me. She often says that I am yelling at her when I am not yelling at all, just voicing an opinion different from hers or setting a boundary for being willing to tolerate abuse. For example, she might be abusing me... I start to feel threatened.. so I just walk away. She says that because I walked away, I lost my temper.. which I did not, I just needed a time out to self sooth.

"She may want to make decisions that do not take your
feelings into account, and you won't let her."

This exactly what has happened which has caused my wife to want divorce now. She wanted to take my full paycheck and spend it without regards for how I felt. I said no! You can only have access to my full paycheck if we follow POJA... she wanted noting of that.

She wanted a new cable package... I told her specifically that I did not want it, we could not afford it, and I thought the children were watching too much TV. I said, I am willing to sit down with you, negotiate, and find something we can both be happy with. She said No, and she just went and ordered it behind by back. I said NO and I cancelled it.

She also wanted to have a boyfriend, and I said NO! I exposed the affair!

You can see.. this is exactly what is happening!!!!

This is what the article says to do about it..
"Let her do whatever she wants (to prevent her from doing so would be a Love Buster), but also let her know how much it is hurting you."

But, I am confused.. Dr Harley said not to give away the store... and letting her have an affair would seem to be so enabling and uncaring.. what do I do?

Not intenntional doesn't remove the love buster. If you accidentally elbow her in the face, it will still hurt her.

Don't tell, suggest or demand information. Just stop it.

While you are lovebusting you are in Plan crash and burn. Displaying an abusive marriage when you need to 'get something'

When actually you won't

how can I ask her questions without it being a demand? she has a choice to answer or not answer... I am not going to punish her for not answering... but I can understand how asking certain questions can be interpreted as disrespect. I have been trying to simply ask her what would make her happy what is making her unhappy? I am not getting much of an answer. I am trying to show that I care about what would make her happy.. but I'm not getting that information. How do you think I could ask her in a way that would get a better response?


I would like to ask her why she has been so kind to me today... her happiness is important to me, so if something has made her happy, I want to know what it is. Maybe she has felt "controlled".. and by agree to get divorced she now feels less "controlled".. so that may be a clue as to what is bothering her... it could then lead to a discussion about things we could do that would make her more happy. My goal is to show that I am willing to be the husband that tries to make her happy and I care about her... but not create a love buster by asking questions. Any suggestion?

Make a plan and ask her on a fun date. Say you want to show her you can be a fun and romantic husband for her. Promise no relationship talk.

Please understand that I say this kindly - you are talking at her too much. Show some action. Does she like flowers and gifts? She has no money; would having a little cash in her pocket (like $10-20) help her feel better? Special cup cake from her favorite local bakery? Are there honest compliments she might enjoy, such as about how she looks or keeps the house that you can give her?

I'm not saying you can buy your wife but she sounds like a woman who would enjoy gifts and compliments. If you want the marriage to work, you should fervently court her.

A lot of relationship talk is exhausting and demoralizing. Go have fun and table the relationship talk.

Get out of the house. Go to a tree lighting or the rockettes or something.

I have been giving her $1,500/ month just to buy groceries and whatever she wants. Anytime she asks me for something.. clothes or whatever, I usually give it to her. If she runs out of money, I usually hem & haw...but I end up giving it to her.

I have been thinking of asking her again on a date... but we are planning on a divorce so how to I ask her on a date... I was thinking of just saying.. lets work on our relationship / friendship post divorce and just go do something together for fun. We really need to figure out our divorce through so I don't know how to avoid relationship talk.. because that is what it is.. I guess the other thing I could do is to procrastinate the divorce talk and just try to do something fun. I am concerned that just going on a data won't change anything and I need to do something more to prove to her that I care about her happiness...

typicalman, are you reading my posts?

Can you stop debating your wife since that is part of following the plan here?

tm, I stayed up late last night reading all of your posts and making several posts to you. It doesn't look like you've read a single one of them.

We can help you follow this plan to save your marriage and it will work if you follow it. If you simply want to tell your story and talk more than listen, your marriage is only going to go downhill.

When most of us showed up, we could say "My best thinking ruined my marriage." Can't you say that at this point, too? Why don't you dedicate yourself to learning Dr. Harley's plan, since he knows how to save marriages just like yours?

I was in a marriage just like yours, tm and was able to turn it around by following the Marriage Builders program. We can point out the things you are missing in the program, but it does not look like you are listening.

If you are not interested in listening, tm, I will go spend my time with somebody else who can listen and be helped.

You don't want the answer, so don't ask the question. She wants OM for intimate needs and you for FS. She's told you this, so stop asking. She is not interested in your agenda but you are constantly annoying her with it and not interested in her true feelings (disinterest) on the topic.

Which is a DJ, and foolish of you, however understandable.



Aye. Less talk more action.

You show a basic misconception of the mind set which affects anyone who is in an active affair. Utterly selfish, very disinterested in helping you figure anything out. They see you as someone with a total lack of claim to their heart and pushiness will be seen as stalking.

Your only shot is to exclude all love busters, destroy the affair causing the disinterest/callousness, slowly make penny worth deposits in a slow and steady way - while she scowls on. Not minding. Not pushing. No expectations.



All waywards use the Jekyll and Hyde technique to keep cake eating going. All wayward women feel 'controlled' though it is a patently ridiculous claim when they are having an affair.

If you want to understand her, read other people's threads where you will see exact words/behaviour repeated when affair is active. Former personality returns later.

Don't talk about your perspective to her, and for goodness sake, don't swallow or believe hers.

Just be a nice guy. Patient, charming, unhurried, casual. Let exposure and others be her consequence - not you.

You would make so many more deposits if you brought home a book of love poetry, her favourite take out, or made her a cup of tea, or fetched her a blanket. You won't see an immediate response but these deposits stack up like pebbles underwater. Your 'my agenda' talks let out all the water. Massive withdrawals and you have to start again from a minus number.

It is a big ask to meet needs with no expectations and a cheerful demeanour, and no one has to attempt the labours of Hercules known as plan A if they don't want to.

But you don't need her agreement to make deposits. They are unconscious.

In other words, no I'm not asking her on dates, I'm chickening out and doling out cash.

She will say no and that will be ok. You will be charmingly confident anyway.

She's not actually going to say yes anyway - so no a date won't change anything!. The point is to ask. To show interest. To make small and steady deposits with small talk and gestures.

This is a marathon not a sprint.

Then do something! Stop screwing around blogging onthe internet and make a plan to make love bank deposits.

Are you on ADs ? Your thinking is very unclear right now. You seem almost paralyzed.

What can you do today to make love bank deposits? Plan that date, plus ones fo each of the next 7 days. And giving your wife the houshold budget is NOT a gift. Is she the type of woman who likes presents; if so, get her one today. You need to take action. Talk to us alone will not save your marriage. Taking action could.

I have read your posts and am thinking more about how to put it in practice. How did you eventually get her to come around? How did you ask her out?

PLEASE HELP... SOMETHING IS WRONG!!!!

Things aren't adding up here.

The WW is being sooo nice to me.. gave me a hug!
She is so happy after divorce discussion which makes no sense
I was supporting her while she did whatever she wanted.. .now she would be out on her own.
I met with my counselor.. women don't just leave like that without a plan or someone waiting in the wings.

I'm getting a strong feeling that something is not right... why would she want a divorce all of a sudden, be so nice to me, and have no plan. My gut says something is wrong... but what???

Which day was your show?

He got me to come around with PLAN A.