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Perhaps a scaricity budget method would work best right now. You pay everything, including retirement and savings, as soon as the money comes in. What's left in the account is all for spending. Don't give away the farm. That was never plan A.

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Yes... I'm in a difficult situation.

She is blatantly taking advantage of me, running the family into the ground, being extremely demanding, and extremely dishonest. I am actually starting to believe that she is possessed by Satin. I am getting to the point of hating her and my instinct wants me to fight but my intelligence overrides it.

I need to start saying simply "we can't afford it" etc.. and be logical. I want to do that without withdrawing love units. I was thinking that when I am with her and pay for stuff it deposits love units.. when I am not with her and she is broke it doesn't withdraw because it will not be associated with me.

She is very manipulative though. Now, I am in the situation where I gave her LOTS of money to buy food... it's all gone and she didn't buy any food... but now the kids need to eat so I have to either go shopping or give her more. With her car bills and insurance...she follows me around with the bill or keeps me awake at night until I pay it. She literately forces me. If I still don't.. she will take my checks or debit card. She won't actually forge my signature, but she'll take my debit card and use it online to pay if she has to.

I asked her where all the money went and she said "to buy presents"... I said, we did all the shopping together and we used my debit card. She spent $1,000's apparently on top of that which is impossible. I'm not a fool and I know that the reality is that she has the other apartment still and that is where the money is most likely going.

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What are you doing? One of the first rules of dealing with a wayward is to NEVER give them money!!!! Plan A is not about financial irresponsibility or bankruptcy, ever. Plan A is not about financially supporting the wayward behavior (other apartment, OM, etc).

I agree with indie, you are a grown man grow a pair and regain control. My god, she takes your keys, takes your check and debit card and spits in your face.

Regain financial control, NOW. If you have to set up a different account and pay all bills through that and leave XX dollars in your other account for her.

Waywards have no concern for financial matters, NONE.

AND GET YOUR TRUCK BACK!!!

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Originally Posted by typicalman
She is blatantly taking advantage of me, running the family into the ground, being extremely demanding, and extremely dishonest. I am actually starting to believe that she is possessed by Satin. .


She is. Her and every other wayward. That is to be expected.

Originally Posted by typicalman
I need to start saying simply "we can't afford it" etc.. and be logical. I want to do that without withdrawing love units.


Saying no does not withdraw units. In fact women in particular despise automatic capitulation, they see it as weak and fraudulent. Even non wayward women will take whatever capitulation is on offer, but they will be well aware of a lack of enthusiasm, self control and know it's just short term buttering up.


That does not meet the need in any worthwhile way.


Originally Posted by typicalman
. With her car bills and insurance...she follows me around with the bill or keeps me awake at night until I pay it. She literately forces me.


The word you are looking for is no. Not 'we can't afford it' but no. Say you wont stand for this behaviour and that you'll die of sleep deprivation before rewarding it.







What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Giving your wife whatever she wants isn't the way to make her happy. Since you are now partners in life, and everything you do will affect each other, what you do for her must make you happy, too. Otherwise, she will feel unfulfilled and frustrated with your reluctant efforts.


Here:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_wife.html



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Many veteran posters here have advised you to put your energy and resources into a divorce and custody of your children and yet you insist on vacillating in an in-between zone where nothing gets resolved. Now she WANTS a divorce. Why you aren't capitalizing on her willingness to separate is a mystery to those of us who've followed you from your previous thread where your wife kidnapped the children and disappeared for months. I think you need to reevaluate here and strongly consider the benefit of moving on.

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I'm with zibbles here.

You are dealing with someone who is already proven to be dangerous to your children (basically abducting them from the only sane parent they have) and is obviously continuing to be dishonest with you.

Either get your wits about you and learn to Plan A without giving away the farm, or file for divorce. It's not just you but your children in the balance.

I'd rather see you move on from someone who may not ever come around than watch her clean you out while you pursue a very misguided concept of Plan A.


Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

My story
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I completely agree with all of this. I met with several lawyers and they all say the same thing... in my state, the women get the kids.. end of story. They will overlook all her erratic behavior because she is the mom. I can continue to fight her in court but we are simply out of money.

This leaves me with little choice but to stay in plan A as long as possible before I would have to leave her (and the kids).

Let me ask this question though... if all this is wayward behavior, she will eventually come out of it. Dr Harley says that affairs die a natural death and wayward FOG always goes away eventually. This can't possibly go on forever, can it?

I will put financial controls in place... I am very confused about what makes deposits and withdrawals.. putting her on a strict allowance versus giving her all the freedom she wants.

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Is this really your game plan? You haven't even truly investigated a divorce. You have the resources to get great legal representation. She's WILLING to divorce you now (which was previously an excuse). IMO you are not going to win this lady back but instead are signing up to witness her abuse of your children and her continuing abuse of you. You'll notice several posters quit posting here. They've given up on you because you insist on doing things your own way. Good luck. I think you're going to need it.

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It's very easy. Lovebusters make withdrawals and enthusiastic needs-meeting makes deposits.

If you are avoiding angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements and independent behaviour then you aren't making any withdrawals. Saying 'no' cheerfully and assertively doesn't come under any of those categories. If you say no angrily, then that's a LB. If you tell her she is a crazy spendthrift and you know better than she does, then that's disrespectful and is a lovebuster. Saying you are going to spend the money on something better is IB. Saying you simply don't want to give her some money is not a love buster.

Meeting needs makes deposits. But needs must be met enthusiastically and with a cheerful, unfaked enthusiasm in order to hit the mark.

In the current situation you aren't meeting needs at all. You are simply hunkering down and avoiding conflict which she knows too well. That is not needs meeting. She knows that she can bully you and get whatever she wants which means she has you pegged in a corner where it is impossible for you to 'give' her anything. She is simply taking, which blocks you from giving. She is blocking you from taking charge, appearing enthusiastic and generous and voluntarily meeting her needs.

Anything that goes against your own enthusiasm is anti-poja. "Never do anything without enthusiastic approval" means sticking to your own guns too - It's not enough for you to end your own independent choices, you must also stand up to hers.

Have you actually read up on what Plan A consists of? Nowhere does it say "Do as you are told" Dr Harley repeatedly tells people to NEVER do that!

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, and selfish demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement (Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse) helps identify and prevent instances of thoughtlessness.

A third possible cause of an affair is a lifestyle where spouses spend much of their leisure time apart from each other, and form leisure-time friendships with those of the opposite sex. A plan to avoid being away from each other overnight and making each other favorite leisure-time companions goes a long way toward creating a passionate marriage that is essentially affair-proof.

In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan.

.






What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Yes.. I get it. I should do things that make me happy to give. It's the part about avoiding fights that I am worried about if I say no... even if I say no respectfully it will lead to a fight.

To all the other posters.. I talked to Dr Harley. I sent him 6 pages of all the gory details of what she has done. He recommended plan A as long as I can hold out. He also recommended that given the age of my children, if I could hold out 5 years for them, that would be best.

I have talked to several lawyers... no matter how good they are or how much I spend, they tell me the outcome is the same... mom gets the children no matter what.

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Originally Posted by typicalman
I have talked to several lawyers... no matter how good they are or how much I spend, they tell me the outcome is the same... mom gets the children no matter what.

I find this very hard to believe considering what she has already done. Yes, in most states it is biased toward the woman for custody, but you appear to be giving up.

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Originally Posted by NebDane
Originally Posted by typicalman
I have talked to several lawyers... no matter how good they are or how much I spend, they tell me the outcome is the same... mom gets the children no matter what.

I find this very hard to believe considering what she has already done. Yes, in most states it is biased toward the woman for custody, but you appear to be giving up.

I too am beside myself that these lawyers aren't even willing to fight for me and they are very upfront about the sexual bias. I want to give plan A my best possible effort so at least I know I have done everything I possibly could to save out marriage and for the kids.

Last edited by typicalman; 12/22/15 04:48 PM.
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"Abduction" would be a hard sell in court. An abusive husband would, in this case, be an easy sell in court. Also, removing children from the care of the primarily responsible parent (SAHM) in the absence of physical abuse is nearly impossible.

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Somethings for you to do... Pull her credit report, see where the money is going.

Stop giving her cash. If you are paying for the affair phone, cancel it. Lock your debit card up at night.

Remember...Plan A is strong, not afraid.

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Have you looked at Dream Homes in your previous area as Indiegirl recommended? If you moved there and Plan A became PlanD, would the custody laws be more favorable to you in that state?

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Im not sure what the big deal about the truck is. Why cant you drive her car? Was the purchase of the truck before or after she left? Was it independent behavior?

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Originally Posted by apples123
Im not sure what the big deal about the truck is. Why cant you drive her car? Was the purchase of the truck before or after she left? Was it independent behavior?

No it was not IB. I took her to look at it, I made it a joint decision, and I put her name on it as well so she would feel part of it even though the old truck was mine before marriage. I told her that if she needed to go big grocery or had any other need for the cargo space she can feel free to take it just like my old truck. This was just pure selfishness that she took it as hers and it was about the time the affair started.

I have another old beater car that I commute to work with. I just struggle to take care of the house and acreage with no truck.

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I dont think you understand what independent behavior is.

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Have you gotten the radio archives? You can search by topic and listen to a number of situations.

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