Hint: You can't make it a joint decision.

Yes, absolutely it can. Most of the time, no it doesn't, but some of the time it does. There are posters here who have gone through YEARS of what you are talking about without ever getting a WS/FWS on board with the program, because that person never chooses to get on board with the program, and the BS never chooses to draw a line in the sand on what they will/will not tolerate.

Plan A is not magic, and there's nothing guaranteeing that it will work. It's your best possible effort you can make to persuade her to get on board with this program, but it is not a silver bullet. You need to look at the possibility that she never comes around with eyes wide open and figure out where your boundaries are. A crappy, abusive marriage with this woman for the rest of your life is not going to be as good for your children as finding someone else you can model a healthy relationship to them with, and it certainly won't be any good for your well being. You need to sit down and really think about what your limits are if things don't change.


Why look at this as an allowance?

I am imagining your finances are separated after what has happened, correct? Does she have direct access to your bank account, or does she ask you for money?

Plan A is things like offering to take her on dates, getting her some of her favorite treats or leaving her lovenotes, making sure you spend time every day having good conversation with her, making yourself more attractive for her and eliminating lovebusting habits you tend to have around her.

Thinking about your situation, your dilemma really goes back to having taken her back in without any conditions after she left, and she wants you to treat her like none of it ever happened.

You need to remember that it happened, and remember that she hasn't recommitted to your marriage. When she asks you for money out of your non-joint bank account, you need to politely say "No." Do you have a set of keys to your truck? Then drive it, and politely explain that it is required to perform your daily work (what I'm gathering from all of this is that it's a work truck, right?).

A big fundamental to remember is that Plan A isn't about $$$. Dates can be done cheaply, favors can be done cheaply, all of it does not require you to become a human ATM. It's about you inviting her to join you in recreational activity. If she's flying solo or burning cash, you can bet that it's not Plan A. You need to gauge how much effort you're putting into Plan A by the amount of UA time you are spending with her, not the amount of money.

"Freedom" to be away from you, driving a car you need for work, spending your money...etc...is not something you should be facilitating. At all. And it's not part of Plan A.

I dont think it is a work truck. He said he uses it for household projects.

If it's not a work truck and you two are joint owners of it, then I don't understand what the problem is with her driving it. Maybe it's frustrating to you right now but until she is on board with the program/EPs you're not going to be able to work things like that out very easily. Focus on other more important things.

Hopefully, you know what I mean. We talked about it ahead of time.. She deferred to me as being the "car expert".. so I did the research etc... but I took her to go buy it. I would not have done anything if she was not in enthusiastic agreement, and trust me, she was in complete agreement. This was also before I read Dr Harley's material... I have learned the hard way to not make decisions without the enthusiastic agreement of my spouse because she never lets me hear the end of it if I do.

good points... with regard to boundaries, I am trying to figure out where I do draw the line. I was going to give her another 6-8 months then divorce her (although, I think she has plans for divorce sooner). On one hand, I think it is the right limit to say I have done everything I can do.. .on the other hand.. I feel EXTREMELY selfish for divorcing just because she is a bad wife and not giving me the kind of marriage I want. I do want to model a better relationship for my kids. I am really really struggling with the morality of divorce.

You are right.. this is my problem. My lawyer says it's not abduction if a mom takes her own children... The kids therapist has testified to all the problems and trust issues it has created for the children... but basically, a mom can do whatever she wants as far as the legal system is concerned. It is just assumed that the dad is irrelevant by the court.

What you're dealing with is WAY WAY past the point of "not giving me the kind of marriage I want". That's the sort of sentiment I would associate with men who come here wanting to divorce because they're not getting enough sex or because their wife won't tolerate their own independent behavior.

What you're dealing with is "the kind of marriage nobody could survive". She's cheated on you, randomly abandoned you (taking your kids) for 6 months, and is now mooching off of you while rejecting your attempts to meet her needs and work on the marriage. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess NONE of your emotional needs are being met.

I'm not saying "give up", but you don't need any further moral justification to do so, if you choose to. No sane person would blame you for walking away from this. Almost all Christian denominations allow divorce in the cases of abuse, abandonment and adultery, and you've already dealt with all 3 of those things.

If you choose to try and save this, it needs to be because you still truly love her and truly want to save the marriage. Trying to do an effective Plan A from feeling guilty about divorce isn't going to work out. It's a hard race to run and your heart needs to be in it.

Right... it's not the end of the world. I have had to rent a truck in the past months when I needed to get something done. It's just an example of extreme selfishness I am dealing with.

When you put it this way... it sounds pretty bad. How could I have married someone this purely evil? I struggle with that.

She has destroyed my "feeling" of love for her by withdrawing love units.. but I still choose to love her as I promised to on the day we were married. We are supposed to love even our enemy's. The motivation that I have to save this marriage are two things: #1 She is the mother of my children, so I can never replace her #2 I am just a very determined person and I like to fix things.. I have just determined that I want to fix this. My kids look to me to fix this.. and they have literally asked me to fix it. I promised them I would do my best to fix it.

Everyone I know friends, family, coworkers are telling me to divorce and move on. I know that I have the right to do it. My kids are not saying that though... they love their mom and want us both together and I am listening to them.

As far as my emotional needs being met... she is not really meeting my top intimate emotional needs, but she is someone to talk to at the end of the day, she does make dinner most nights, she does do laundry (i.e. basic domestic support).. she has gotten some new clothes and she looks attractive to me from time to time... so there is something there. Sometimes its also a very lonely & isolating feeling to be with her.

I am putting myself through alot... but I really do want to make sure I am the one that is convinced that I have done everything humanly possible to win her back. When she is "in love" I think I can get her to do the program, but without being "in love" there is no chance. I am on this board not to be told to divorce her because I have everyone else in the world to tell me that. I want to make sure I have made nothing less than a heroic effort to save this.


Also.. I have started to work on my resume and talk about other places to live. A pending divorce does make it a little more complicated.

Were you on the show or was this through email?

He was on the show.

How is she paying for the phone?

That's right, thanks back in November. It sounded like he was still emailing with Dr. Harley. Is that not accurate?

I did email Dr Harley after the show, but I have not heard back.

Did you notify the MODS so they can look into this?
You could also email justuss or denali.

Sorry it's been a while... I didn't know that contacting the mods might help me get a response and perhaps the email was misplaced. The situation is changing rapidly and I may just type a new note to Dr Harley and send it to the mods.

I had an angry outburst last night and I AM PROUD OF IT! At least for now until you all can give me some feedback that that I did the wrong thing. My WW has been walking all over me.

Last night she sat down with a bottle of wine and put " a girlfriends guide to divorce" on the TV in our living room. I kindly asked her twice if we could watch something that we would both possibly enjoy together. She refused. I don't really know what this show is about, but I know the title and it's not something I want on in my house / living room. I also felt that it is time for me to stand up for our marriage.

I stormed out... disconnected the cable outside and went for a walk. I felt a little bad / guilty for having this kind of outburst, but then I thought that showing some emotion in the act of STANDING UP FOR OUR MARRIAGE is NOT wrong, and I should not feel bad about it.

I came back to the house very calm and offered to her that we play a game together or something else. She said no of course, but she was reading a book. I grabbed my bible and sat there and read with her.

YES, I had an angry outburst... but I'm done with her walking all over me and I'm done with facilitating my marriage being killed by her.

Feel free to leave me comments on what I should have done differently.

I am not in the best position to offer advise, so I will keep it brief with one thing I noticed. I would be careful about trying to to use the Bible as a weapon against your spouse. If you grab and read your Bible every night and she is familiar with seeing you like that, than no problem. If this is totally new to your behavior, I would tread carefully - she may see it as a condemning action like you are trying to force feed her verses, etc.

Just a thought. By no means am I advocating you stop reading the Bible

I do read it every night. It is the only book that I am currently reading.

I mean - I read my Bible every night too now since my WW announced she is having an affair. But if she was home right now, and I sat on the couch next to her with my Bible and started reading it, it would look really strange to her because it is a new behavior of mine. She may perceive it as condemning. BUT if your spouse is familiar with seeing you read the Bible then you should have no worries