No, it doesn't.

You're preaching to the choir. You're not telling markos anything he didn't have to to through. I've told you before, but you'd be wise to start LISTENING to him. He knows how to do a spectacular Plan A. He knows how to do a Plan A without being a conflict avoider. He knows how to actually do this ... but you choose to debate.

we are all wired to have affairs and we are all wired to sin... but, as sinners, we do two things:

#1 we avoid things that will lead us to sin... this is very similar to what Dr Harley says about extraordinary precautions.

#2 when we sin.. .we are sorry, we repent, and try to avoid further sin. An affair is an ongoing decision to live in a state of sin. Being short with someone is a sin where we made a mistake, we repent, and try not to do it again. We all make these kinds of sins on a daily basis.. An example is that driving to work, we forget to give someone the right of way, we get a little frustrated with traffic and honk the horn when we didn't need to.. these are the kinds of things we all do that are sinful and we should avoid. There is a big difference between that and having an ongoing affair.

I am on this board to learn to better myself. I could easily say nothing and pretend I am doing everything perfect, but that wont help my marriage and it won't make me any better.

I have not read the book "love busters"... although I have ready many others.. would you recommend that for more detail on AO's?

Any suggestions on what I "should" have done???...

Yes, folks have written me plenty on what I am going wrong, but I am really looking for an answer on this.. it would really help me.

Do you think one of my other options would have been better? Which one? was there something that I did not think of?

More minimizing.

How many times have we told you to get educated on your lovebusters? Yes, it's past time for you to read the book and get educated.

I don't think that AO's are justified. I guess I just don't know the difference between standing up for myself or my marriage and an AO. Again, we are not talking about anything violent.. but showing emotion... showing that you care about something. I do struggle with that.

I feel like I am just being told that everything that I am doing is wrong but not get clear answers or suggestions on what to do. Hence, my posts turn into debate.. and it is a waist of everyone's time. I am sorry for my part in this wasted effort and debate.

Please thought.. I would really like action oriented advice; things that I can go home and do today. What other option should I have taken with the situation that I presented. Not a single poster has given me another option but just to tell me that what I did was wrong.

I kinda knew that what I did was wrong.. which is why I made such a provocative post. If I can get some suggestions, my thought process will begin to flow.

Once my thought process begins flowing, the next time this comes up, I'll start thinking of other solutions. I need a little help to prime the pump here.

You have been given action oriented advice -- get educated. It has been posted to you time and time again.

We're not here to solve every conflict for you. You need to learn the tools to solve them yourself. A big problem is that you haven't taken the time to get educated and learn how to do that.

Get Lovebusters. Read it. What does Dr. Harley say about AOs? What does he say about Demands and Disrespect?
If you cannot stop the AOs, go to Plan B.
This is all action oriented advice, and has already been posted to you.

OK.. I will read LB.

I have read almost all his articles and listened to his show every day. I am obviously struggling with application of some of it in the real world.

One thing that has been hard.. I am out in the open ALL the time. The only time I have to read is lunch hour at work etc...

My wife is very mad about Dr Harley's materials...POJA, Exposure, etc.. if she catches me reading at home, I am in trouble.

So? Never stopped markos ....

I don't think you have. Read everything listed on the left here:
Q&A Columns

I will make sure I got all of them.

If I listen to what my wife is saying is bothering her... most of what she says is " you didn't do this for me, so you don't care about me", "if you cared about me you would get me this", then "you annoy me", "everything you say is stupid", " you are dumb", " you are a "bad father", "you always xxx, you never yyy"...

It really feels like she is just in withdrawal and just me being around annoys her. My deposits can't make it through due to this perpetual withdrawal she is in. The problem is, I just don't know. Is it my love busters that are the problem or is it a closed love bank. Her love bank is clearly closed so i can't get enough of a deposit in there to offset even the smallest love buster. In the past, I could always make enough deposits to overcome my love busters and they were 100 times what they are now.

This is the excerpt from the articles that I found most relevant.. I am controlling because:

"She may want to make decisions that do not take your
feelings into account, and you won't let her.

This is a more common reason than the first for women to feel they are being controlled by their husbands. It's what most people don't like about the Policy of Joint Agreement. It's great when someone else considers our feeling before making a decision, but when we are asked to do the same, many of us think they're attempting to control our lives.

As often as I've witnessed it, I'm still amazed by people who want their spouses to let them do anything they want. "If he really loved me, he would know how much it means to me, and he'd want me to enjoy myself. After all, I'd do the same for him!"

Let's think that through. What she is saying is that if he loved her, he would be willing to suffer so that she could be happy. He explains that what she wants to do would make him unhappy, but she wants to do it anyway. And she appeals to his love for her to get her way. But what about her love for him? If she loved him, would she want to engage in activities that cause him to suffer? The truth is, whenever someone wants to gain at someone else's expense, they are being self-centered and uncaring.

Why use the argument, "If you loved me you would suffer for me?" Because it works. Our Takers know a good thing when they see it and use that argument to gain sympathy. But it sure doesn't make any sense for people who really do care about each other.

Your wife may want to do whatever she pleases without having to consider your feelings first. She may interpret the defense of your interests as "controlling," and doesn't want you to keep her from engaging in inconsiderate behavior. She may want you to consider her feelings, and avoid behavior that is upsetting to her, but she may not want to return the favor. If that's what you're up against, I suggest that you set an example to her of what it means to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement. Make sure you always consider her feelings whenever you make a decision, and ask, but don't demand, that she consider your feelings whenever she makes a decision. Let her do whatever she wants (to prevent her from doing so would be a Love Buster), but also let her know how much it is hurting you. Your wife may eventually come to realize that your relationship depends on your mutual consideration of feelings. But even if she doesn't come to that realization, you will be depositing love units, and avoiding their withdrawal, which will change her state of mind eventually. As soon as you have deposited enough love units for her to enter the state of intimacy, her thoughtfulness of your feelings will be instinctive to her. "


I have been trying to follow the advice at the bottom of this article.. basically. give her everything that she wants, let her know how it hurts me, but also consult her for every decision I make. Sometimes her response is "I don't care what you do as long as you give me what I ask for"

this is a big part of where being the "capitulator", "conflict avoid er" has come in, but.. I don't give away the store... so I set a limit ( the the case of last night, allowing something immoral into my living room) and that will of course feel controlling to her.

Dr Harley on angry outbursts says "we all do it" but it is "never acceptable"... I'm not trying to defend the occasional angry outburst... I am a very, very calm person... but I do have the occasional "passive aggressive" angry outburst... I'd love to eliminate it all together.

When I read the articles though it is clear to me that in years past BOTH my wife and I have been abusive to eachother... name calling, stonewalling, yelling. Looking back, I am not proud at all for my side of it. Her view is that her anger, temper, etc.. was all OK because she is female, and she has an Irish temper and she is entitled to that. One thing that made our relationship good was that making up after a fight was always REALLY good for us... In years past, I have to admit.. I have even started a few fights just so that we could make up... it brought us so close together and I really liked that closeness.

I am most of the way through... I will keep reading though.

You still don't get it.
No, you don't just give her whatever she wants. This will set you up for resentment, which will lead to disaster.

No, you don't get to "set a limit" and control her because you've decided something is immoral and will not be allowed in YOUR living room. This is disrespectful. You are not her father.

None of this is MB.

Dr Harley told me not to "Give away the store"... . I was offended by it. If I had porn on, would she not have the right to shut it off because it offended her? The same thing would be true with the money... when it gets out of control, I just shut it off.

I see your point though... I won't shut it off again, but I am still searching for the alternative other than just telling her how offended and hurt I am as this article suggests.

Anyway, I just talked to her...she brought it up. She actually does not even know that I had an angry outburst... she thought we just had a temporary problem with the cable when i went for my walk and she was complaining to me about our service.. I guess... even though I felt angry inside, she didn't really notice it much.

You are missusing Dr. Harley's advice -- when he tells you to not "give away the store," he is not giving you permission to lovebust your wife with demands, disrespect and angry outbursts.

There is no alternative. You don't get to control her. You tell her that it hurts you, and you let her decide what she's going to to do with that information. If she continues to hurt you, you can separate and go to Plan B. But you don't get to set limits and control her.

"Don't give away the store" does not mean "control your wife if she steps over the line."

I do not want to "control"... and I am setting the limit on myself, not her... the way I see limit setting is limits on what I am willing to do. I am paying for the TV... I don't have to. She is free to leave, go to a bar, go to a friends house and watch her TV, she is even free to go have am affair... I cannot control any of that. I thought that us what he meant by control... I thought that if something deeply offended me that was in my house that I pay all the bills for, I could set my own limit on what I am willing to do. I see your point though about it seeming parent-child. I also thought it would seem uncaring of me if I didn't do it.

I called my lawyer today about strategies to get her out of the house... and we are working on that.

You were controlling her. Period. You demanded that she watch something else (and yes, it was a demand -- how do you tell the difference between a request and a demand?). Then you had an AO over what TV show she chose to watch, and you controlled her.

You DON'T get to set limits on HER. You set limits on You. If you are offended by her viewing materials, you express your request respectfully. If your request is ignored, exit the situation peacefully. Not by forcing your will on her.

And these instructions are same for a spouse watching porn...you do not have the right to exert your will over her.

So...what made your request into a self-demand? (The answer is less than 8 words.)