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My MIL would never call this OW and say that. I didn't realize I'm enabling by not being in contact with him. The alien that has taken over his mind is completely different from my best friend and the man I married. What do you make of affairs that are blatantly out in the open? Whats worse or rather whats the difference in how you treat either one?

His family has told me to move on b/c he is unhappy (and this is after everyone pleading with him to stay). He continues to tell them he loves me but in the same breath refuses to forgive me. He told me about that affair after the fact b/c he thought I would leave him. This is a classic exit/split self affair. The wayward has little regard for anyone but himself at this point.

He says all he wants to do is work and he is alone. He said that I wasn't there for him when he needed me and says he's emotionally all over the place and numb but he still loves and cares for me. Trying to make sense of how someone can be addicted to this OW to the point of going against his own family who know he's making a big mistake and messing up everyone's lives. How do I link to the user's you mentioned above stories?

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If Dr. Harley told you to let the affair die, then do. Expose her side Go into Plan B. See a lawyer, protect yourself, send a Plan B letter, change locks, banks, etc., If needed

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Typical wayward behavior. It doesn't make sense. You need to stop taking responsibility for the affair.

Stay NC. (earlier people were telling you HE needs to have NC with the OW before you can make any head way.)

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We KNOW he is in contact with her because of the behavior you are describing.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2315999

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You don't understand an affair yet. I have been in one, not knowing he was married. Before this, I could not imagine myself having an affair.

NOW I CAN

I hate to admit it, but after the initial shock, disgust and nausea, the affair caught me. Some four months after I found out, to my disgust, I wanted it back again. I never gave in, but the grip of the addiction was so very strong. I was in my own fog. I didn't actively pursue him, but had he showed up on my doorstep, I don't know what I would have done.

One year after, I wanted to start dating. Then social media told me he had visited my linkedin profile several times. I was back at square one, the affair was pulling at me again.

I knew all I had to do to rekindle things, was to send him one message.

I am a christian and try to live my life accordingly. I have never wanted to be in an affair, but I have been without knowing. And it had its claws in me very deep. I understand how strong the addiction is. I have not contacted him, but if I had the same moral standards as your husbands OW has, I would have.

This is why I emphasise the need to expose on her side. Without it, the chance you have of killing the affair is not so good.

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Originally Posted by Winning11
I was not on the show, I had a private session.
Once again: Was this with Dr Bill Harley, or with his son Steven Harley?

If you called the telephone coaching centre and paid about $200 for a phone consultation, then you were speaking to Dr Harley's son Steve. In that case, you did not receive advice directly from Dr Bill Harley.

I highly doubt that Dr Harley would have told you to let the affair die, but not to expose.


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Originally Posted by Winning11
My MIL would never call this OW and say that.

I am sorry to hear that. Many parents would do this when their son was having an affair.

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I didn't realize I'm enabling by not being in contact with him. The alien that has taken over his mind is completely different from my best friend and the man I married. What do you make of affairs that are blatantly out in the open? Whats worse or rather whats the difference in how you treat either one?

When I refer to enabling, I mainly mean keeping the affair a secret from the OW's family and friends. You have protected her by your silence.

I fully understand and accept that your husband is an alien. We can ALL relate to that. There is no difference between an affair that is out in the open and one is not. However, your husband is HIDING his affair so it is not out in the open.

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His family has told me to move on b/c he is unhappy (and this is after everyone pleading with him to stay). He continues to tell them he loves me but in the same breath refuses to forgive me. He told me about that affair after the fact b/c he thought I would leave him. This is a classic exit/split self affair. The wayward has little regard for anyone but himself at this point.

His family does not understand infidelity or they would know that it is a CLASSIC trait of cheaters to rewrite history to justify their affair. They have ALL been "unhappy for years" even though their spouse is usually never aware of this. ALL waywards have little regard for anyone other than themselves.

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He says all he wants to do is work and he is alone.

That is what falling down drunks say when they are confronted. Trh truth is that they want to be left alone to drink. Your husband wants to be left alone to carry on his affair.

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He said that I wasn't there for him when he needed me and says he's emotionally all over the place and numb but he still loves and cares for me.

Yes, yes, we know. It is all your fault!

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Trying to make sense of how someone can be addicted to this OW to the point of going against his own family who know he's making a big mistake and messing up everyone's lives. How do I link to the user's you mentioned above stories?

Remember what I said about an adulterer being like an alcoholic or a crack head? Once you understand the powerful draw of crack cocaine, you will understand what your H is going through.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
I highly doubt that Dr Harley would have told you to let the affair die, but not to expose.

She told him [not sure if it was Steve or Dr Harley] that it had been exposed. She didn't elaborate apparently, so he didn't see the massive holes in her exposure.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Oh...what a pity!

That's like telling your GP you have taken all the recommended medication, when you have not! How is he supposed to give appropriate advice if he has been misled?


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Oh...what a pity!

That's like telling your GP you have taken all the recommended medication, when you have not! How is he supposed to give appropriate advice if he has been misled?

yep! crazy That's why I am trying to persuade her to close that loophole.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Winning11
I have established NC but he reaches out from time to time about financials and asks how I'm doing.
I meant to ask if you verified WH and OW have no contact. The way he acts tells me they are in contact and that is what stands between your marriage and recovery.

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I've searched around and haven't seen any success tories to come out of exposing the A to her family, especially since everyone already knows. If anything, I've seen this propel the wayward to move even quicker toward D.
Everyone knows the story he made up. You don't know the real story yourself. The affair started way earlier than he told you. You didn't expose, his story got "exposed".
Exposure speeds things up. The longer an affair lasts, the smaller the chance of your marriage recovering. If you don't do a proper exposure, chances of divorce are even bigger.

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I've called off all advances and am doing my own thing but seeing little reward in randomly contact OWs family and being the crazy woman telling them about what their family member has done. She will deny it. She's not even from this country, her family lives overseas.
If I was fooling around with a married man, my mother (in her seventies) would grab me by the hair to keep me away from a married man. Is she from a country with strict moral values? That would be wonderful.

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I've done the doormat thing, now I've just given it to the Man upstairs. I don't want to rush him into something if there is any chance at all that he is reconsidering. Dr. H said I should just wait for the A to die a natural death since it's already exposed. His A was an excuse to not work on the issues in our marriage. I want to show him that we can work on these issues but he is just checked out.
Did you tell Dr. Harley how you exposed and to who? Often people think they exposed, but if we pry a bit, we discover the definition of exposure is not the same for everyone. Did you specify your exposure to Dr Harley, or did you just tell him you exposed to everyone?

If there is something you can do to speed up the end of the affair, why wouldn't you use that tool?

You cannot resolve of the issues in your marriage, as long as the affair is active. It is pointless, because the affair has taken over your husbands brain.

The Man upstairs sent you here, i am sure of that.

I am reminded of a joke.
There was a flood. A God fearing man was sitting on his rooftop and prayed to God to rescue him. A fisherman floated by and offered him to get in the boat. The man said "No. God will rescue me."
Several days later, a rubberboat came by. Again he refused, "God will rescue me." Then a helicopter came by, the man refused again.
He died and arrived at the gates of heaven. He asked God "Why didn't you rescue me?" God answered: "I sent a fisherman, rubber boat and a helicopter. Why did you refuse?"

Get legal advice, get an IM and plan B. We will pray for you.

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Originally Posted by goody2shoes
Originally Posted by Winning11
I have established NC but he reaches out from time to time about financials and asks how I'm doing.
I meant to ask if you verified WH and OW have no contact. The way he acts tells me they are in contact and that is what stands between your marriage and recovery.

She said earlier she knows they are in contact. What she meant above was that SHE is not in contact with him.

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I am reminded of a joke.
There was a flood. A God fearing man was sitting on his rooftop and prayed to God to rescue him. A fisherman floated by and offered him to get in the boat. The man said "No. God will rescue me."
Several days later, a rubberboat came by. Again he refused, "God will rescue me." Then a helicopter came by, the man refused again.
He died and arrived at the gates of heaven. He asked God "Why didn't you rescue me?" God answered: "I sent a fisherman, rubber boat and a helicopter. Why did you refuse?"

So agree with this!!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Winning11
I've searched around and haven't seen any success tories to come out of exposing the A to her family, especially since everyone already knows.
Then you haven't happened upon my thread yet.

My H had a twelve YEAR affair right under my nose. He promised to end it on D-Day, he loved me, he'd do anything to fix things.

That lasted one week, until he caved the second time that she contacted him. I didn't find this out until six months later...during the time when we were wasting money going to "marriage counseling"....while my H sat and bold-face lied to me, the counselor, himself, and even his mother! Yep...I heard him on the phone with his mother back then, bragging to her about the huge compliment that our "marriage counselor" had given to us...that the counselor had never seen anyone work so hard to save their marriage, and that we WILL succeed. This was said WHILE HE WAS STILL HAVING HIS AFFAIR! Talk about addiction!

Second D-day, I went nuclear on exposure...thanks to this forum, I realized that my marriage as I had known it was gone. I was no longer afraid of "pushing him into her arms". He was already there! Whether I stayed with my husband or chose to leave, I was not willing to have my adult children be forced to live with this woman in their future without the best fight that I could fight.

I told everyone. (edited to add: yes, I contacted each of her children and all of her friends on FB...her family had KNOWN! But not the true story...they knew the story that the affairees had concocted, and it was a whopper!)

I even made up a flyer with mine and H's photo on it and mailed it to every single neighbor on the OW's street (36 unknown-to-me people), with a little blurb about the affair, I included my cell number and asked them to call me if they ever see H on their street again. I warned them to watch their own husbands around this woman who obviously is a danger to marriages.

That took care of that. Killed the affair dead...my extreme exposure apparently made it no longer fun for her to steal what is mine once I shined the light of day on them.

After two years of recovery, our marriage is better than it ever EVER was.

We did for a long while see our Pastor for help...but it wasn't marriage counseling...it was because we were both ready to turn our lives around WITH God in our marriage. We are both IN the marriage now. When we pray together each day, my husband asks God to stay the third strand in our marriage. smile

Last edited by BlindSighted2013; 01/04/16 03:45 PM. Reason: adding more info

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Again, I did in fact speak with Dr. Bill Harley, and not Steve. Not understanding why you don't get that. I told him that the A is exposed b/c I thought it was. As I mentioned when I first started, everyone knows. He didn't ask me if her family knows. He asked me if it was exposed, and to my knowledge it was.

My mother would call the OW but its not in my MIL's personality to do that.

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Now you have new knowledge. What's your new plan? (we are all praying btw. But action on your part is necessary.)

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That joke makes sense, and makes me think.

Another note, my H is a conflict avoider and this will just send him off with a poor taste in his mouth about me. I want to save any chance we have of R in the future.

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Bindsighted2013, I just glanced at your thread. Were you guys at any point separated? Did your H ever mention D and seem steadfast in his resolve?

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Again, I did in fact speak with Dr. Bill Harley, and not Steve. Not understanding why you don't get that.
Dr. Harley does not typically give private sessions. That is the area that Steve covers. Many people come through here claiming to have talked to Dr. Harley when, in fact, they have had a private session with Steve Harley.

Typically, if you want to talk to Dr. Harley, you must email or call the radio show. It is not hard to get that people might be confused as to how you might have talked to Dr. Harley privately.


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What to do with an Angry Husband

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I want to save any chance we have of R in the future.
Then you will fully expose the affair now.


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Originally Posted by Winning11
My H is a conflict avoider and this will just send him off with a poor taste in his mouth about me. I want to save any chance we have of R in the future.

Hi, Winning. I have been reading with great interest about your struggles and your WH. I know you are in good hands with the wonderful folks on here who are helping you, but this sentence set me on my heels, and now I have to jump in!

My H, too is a HUGE "conflict avoider." In fact, when he left, I had NO clue there was OW, only found out the day he left, left me a note AND divorce papers in the mailbox! He wasn't about to go into a huge "knock-down, drag-out" over it. He was D-O-N-E, he wanted HER, and that was that!

As far as "exposure," sure - he did it! He told ALL his friends/family, etc. He was sure proud of himself! Got away from that "crazy [censored]..." They (mostly) thought he had lost his mind, only his closest family thought it was ok....typical family, right? Told me to "move on..."

I found this site, and honey, I read from sunup till I couldn't keep my eyes open anymore! If there was a degree I could take away from here, I earned a PhD in affairs! I urge you to read other people's stories. Especially read in some "Recovering" stories. If you start at the beginning of their "odysseys," you'll see that they all felt like you do. They all had to do Plan A, felt like doormats, were treated horribly, were scared to death to go to Plan B. Everyone (well, almost everyone) who goes to Plan B is sure this is the end of the marriage! It's a scary thing! Especially when the WS says they will proceed with divorce if you do it. In my case, my WH DID divorce me! We were divorced for 2 years, separated for 3. But God brought us back together again. Yes, it was painful, yes it was hard. But we now have a great marriage, AND a powerful testimony to others about what God can do.

One positive thing you can do now is understand ALL the concepts that are being given to you, and I have to add, it doesn't sound like you're grasping the concepts from this site. An affair NEEDS exposure. Exposure is like when you turn on the lights and all the roaches run! Exposure takes away the thrill. It takes away the excitement, the drama, the cute "little secret" the affair partners share. Then the cold, hard light of day can begin to seep into their little dream world.

OF COURSE your WS is going to be upset at you! Like a child who's favorite toy has just been ripped from his hands, he's going to blame you for spoiling all his fun. And you always have! That kind of talk goes with the territory, and the sooner you learn to ignore it, the sooner you will be on the mend.

See, affair partners can't really find it in themselves to be all-in to each other. They just want a part-time affair. As long as they can see each other when they want, and have their "normal lives" the rest of the time, it works just fine and is a little extra titillating, too! By doing total exposure - with the whole truth of the whole sordid affair - you are ruining their fun, and their fantasy that they are pulling the wool over every one's eyes! Do you see? Does that make sense?

Now, as far as his fog-speak..."you're pushing him into her arms, blah, blah..." he just wants you to back off so he can continue his fantasy. Don't worry, this isn't original with him. THEY ALL SAY IT! lol It means nothing. By going to Plan B, it forces the WS to depend on OW for all his needs. And chances are, she can't supply all his needs the way you can. Does she have his mother's recipes for his favorite soup you can make? Does she know just how to fix his favorite pie, etc? Or fold his socks the way he likes? Does she even want to? See?

There will come times and occasions when he'll remember the things you did for him, that she can't/won't, and that is the time he'll yearn for what he gave away. That can't happen without Plan B. Make sense?

Please, honey, get a grip on your emotions and pray for the strength to go through with this in order to find God's will for your marriage. **I** was ready to walk away! WH was gone. Divorce was in the works. I was walking...."If he wanted her, he could HAVE her..." I was "moving on." But God had a different plan. And He brought me here, and mended what we had managed to mangle pretty good! And he put it back even better than it had ever been!

God Bless you darling! You deserve a happy marriage. And MB can give you the tools for it.

Edit to add: Sorry this is so long! I just couldn't stop once I started addressing all your fears.

Last edited by OlderWiser; 01/04/16 04:21 PM.

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I was there. It's painful. It's hard.
But it's totally doable and worth it.
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