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#2880510 04/28/16 12:01 PM
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Dr. Harley,
My wife and I are 55 years old and have been married 33 years. When we dated she wore contact lenses regularly and weighed 155(she claims 160) at 5ft.8in. She began to gain weight after the birth of our 3rd child 25 years ago, (we have 7 children, the youngest has Down Syndrome) and she stopped wearing contact lenses.
Approximately 20 yearss ago we came across your book His Needs/Her Needs and learned many things, including that I needed to be honest with her regarding how I was feeling about her appearance. This was very painful for her to hear which she communicated very clearly to me, even suggesting that her weight was "none of my business" and proceeded to act on that, withholding almost all information, not raising the subject herself, and secretly eating high caloric "goodies". I avoided the topic for months at a time but when the pain became too great I would try again to communicate my feelings. I wish I could say the resulting discussions over the years were all safe and cheerful, but that was not the case.
She continued to gain weight to a point I am certain ws in excess of 200 (she claims it only broke 200 during pregnancy). Since the birth of our last child 16 years ago, she has managed, painfully slowly to bring it down to 185, while medically speaking there is nothing to prevent her losing weight. Somewhere during this period I ceased to be aroused by her appearance and getting me aroused has required increasingly more effort for her, which she doesn't like and occasionally complains about.
We have tried a few times to watch movies with sex scenes and they were arousing but she felt too uncomfortable. For vacation we travel to the Caribbean where plenty of women show their fit bodies. It is easier to be aroused there, but she won't go as often as I would like and what about the rest of the year?
Approximately 5 years ago she told me I should prepare myself for the possibility that she might be overweight the rest of our lives. After that I began to watch videos with attractive actresses (not pornography) and masturbate when my wife was not around, about 1-2 times per month on average. This was not a strict secret, I would not volunteer, but if she would ask me I would tell her. About a year ago she became very offended about this practice, insisting that it must stop, talking of divorce. (She has talked of divorce periodically throughout the last 16 years). I know I am failing to care but I so much need to be aroused by what I see.
Five months ago extended family issues required that we be separated for about 3 weeks, during which time she lost a noticeable 4 lbs. I felt encouraged, but within 2 weeks it was back and I felt worse than ever, developing an almost constant knot in my stomach. (She also is suffering with foot problems, due in part to carrying excess weight for so many years). Shortly thereafter she discovered evidence that I had masturbated while watching a movie in her absence. Being distraught, she claimed that she regained the weight in part because I have been irritable and angry our whole marriage. However, those love busters set in after the appearance problems began.
But no matter, over the last 4 months I have been diligently removing anger from my life, apologizing for any form of it she identifies. Even though she did not ask for it, I also gave her the DVD player so that I can not watch movies. However, when I ask her for some show of good faith that she will lose all excess weight and keep it off the rest of our lives, she says she can not make a guarantee. Any verbal assurances are no comfort, I have heard them many times before. Writing the letter you recommend did not seem necessary because we are able to talk about this civilly at times.
So my first question to you concerns separation. I suggested to my wife (calmly) that due to the fact that she did lose weight when we were apart last time we might agree to separate until she can demonstrate that the weight is gone for good. We would still maintain 15 hours per week for AO. She does not like this suggestion at all, saying that it is the ultimate selfish demand and if I separate from her it will signal the end of the marriage. Would you recommend separation to break the grip of this long practiced independent behavior?
Relatedly, what role does masturbation play in troubled marriages when you are staying together and trying to work things out. For example, it has happened that after 2-4+ days of no sex and ongoing conflict that I will ask her how she would feel if I masturbate. She will reply "I don't care". However, afterward she will express displeasure. How do I find that balance point between necessary sexual tension that motivates me to resolve the conflict and relieving tension so that the conflict can be resolved?
I understand both these situations to be instances of appropriate exceptions to the POJA that are not meant to be permanent.
I want to stay with my wife, Dr. Harley. We have both worked and sacrificed a lot so that we could enjoy these years after child rearing together. If this is not resolved permanently and soon the likelihood of more serious health problems (ie. type 2 diabetes or bleeding ulcers) will increase and could affect all future enjoyment.
Thank you for your help.








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Okay, for starters, STOP watching movies with sex scenes? Why make a bad problem worse? If your wife doesn't like you enough to lose weight for you in the first place, isn't that just going to make her feel worse? You have to give your spouse a reason to want to do things for you - you are her motivator.

Haven't read your whole post since it's a massive wall of text, but that's the first thing that jumped out at me.


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Separation: Dr. Harley almost never recommends that men separate. And he recommends that spouses who separate NEVER discuss it with their spouse ahead of time.

Dr. Harley has a three article series on separation called When to Call it Quits that you should read:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi8111_quit.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit2.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit3.html


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Dr. Harley's Policy of Sexual Exclusivity states:

Quote
Never engage in any sexual act or experience that does not include your spouse.

Dr. Harley's policies were developed by studying couples with good marriages and couples with bad marriages. Don't expect to have a good marriage or to be able to get what you need in marriage without following all of the policies.

Closely related is Dr. Harley's Policy of Joint Agreement:

Quote
Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse.

Read the link here to find out more about both of these policies.

Also, I've never heard this described as a "policy," but Dr. Harley clarifies that if your spouse breaks the rules/policies, don't break the rules yourself, because that will just make the problems worse. The only few exceptions he makes are for ultra serious situations like infidelity.


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Here's another article from Dr. Harley you should read:

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First I fix the relationship, and nine times out of ten, sexual problems disappear

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5013_qa.html

I think this would be worth following in your situation. Is your wife in love with you? Definitely not - she clearly hates you! Follow the plan to get your wife to fall in love with you and THEN see how willing she is to lose weight for you.

By the way, the number one cause of depression for women is their relationship with their husband or boyfriend. It's clear her relationship with you is not happy for her, which could easily cause depression, which could easily cause weight gain. Women certainly find it much easier to lose weight when they are not depressed!


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Before Dr. Harley would advise a man to separate, he typically requires the man to follow the program flawlessly.

Areas you need to work on:
1. Your Angry Outbursts. This is the number one issue.
2. Your Disrespectful Judgements towards your wife.
3. Ogling other women.
4. Porn habit and masturbation -- you have set up a situation in which you not only repulse your wife, but made it impossible for her to ever attract you. It's called the contrast effect.

I suggest you show your wife this program, and apologize to her. Explain to her that you understand that you have been disrespectful to her all these years, and have caused her great pain. Explain that you are going to use this program to learn how to care for her, and that you are committed to never having another angry outburst or disrespectful judgement toward her again. Invite her to hold you accountable on this.

And then follow the program and cause your wife to fall back in love with you. She will be more motivated to have sex with you and to lose weight when you have done so.


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For vacation we travel to the Caribbean where plenty of women show their fit bodies. It is easier to be aroused there, but she won't go as often as I would like and what about the rest of the year?
I'd kick my husband to the curb if he made such a repulsive comment.


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Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
For vacation we travel to the Caribbean where plenty of women show their fit bodies. It is easier to be aroused there, but she won't go as often as I would like and what about the rest of the year?
I'd kick my husband to the curb if he made such a repulsive comment.

When you got married, you agreed to let your wife be your sole source of sexual gratification. To "forsake all others." It's monstrously abusive to expect your wife to permit you to be aroused by other women. If you want someone else, get a divorce and marry them.


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"When you got married, you agreed to let your wife be your sole source of sexual gratification"

Yes, I understand. We have a very active sex life. It is my #3 need for an attractive spouse that is going unmet.

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Originally Posted by Indianajordan
"When you got married, you agreed to let your wife be your sole source of sexual gratification"

Yes, I understand. We have a very active sex life. It is my #3 need for an attractive spouse that is going unmet.

I'm not sure you understand me.

When you got married, you agreed to let your wife be your ONLY source of sexual gratification. You agreed to not look at other women for arousal. But you did it anyway. And you tried to compel your wife to participate in it.

I imagine she is extremely hurt by this.


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How this "compelling" my wife? We tried it together and when she didn't like it, we stopped. I feel like you have not really read my letter and are accurately representing what Dr. Harley would say. I know Dr. Harley doesn't say not to talk about separating with your spouse.

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Originally Posted by Indianajordan
How this "compelling" my wife? We tried it together and when she didn't like it, we stopped. I feel like you have not really read my letter and are accurately representing what Dr. Harley would say. I know Dr. Harley doesn't say not to talk about separating with your spouse.

Dr. Harley talks about separating when there some type of abuse. Otherwise, a separation would be harmful and you shouldn't be talking about it. Obviously you can't fix a m marriage if you are not there.

Please pay attention to what Markos and Prisca are telling you because they know Dr. Harley's stance on just about everything.


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Originally Posted by Indianajordan
How this "compelling" my wife? We tried it together and when she didn't like it, we stopped. I feel like you have not really read my letter and are accurately representing what Dr. Harley would say. I know Dr. Harley doesn't say not to talk about separating with your spouse.

Dr. Harley told me in a personal private phone call in 2011 that he almost never tells men to separate and that regardless of gender he tells them not to discuss separation ahead of time.

I'm pretty sure he repeated this to me on the radio the same year, around the same time, and this is a recording of it:

http://marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=03332
http://marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=03333
http://marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=03334


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Originally Posted by Indianajordan
How this "compelling" my wife? We tried it together and when she didn't like it, we stopped.

Why did you even try it when you promised not to do anything like this when you got married?

I don't think you understand sexual exclusivity. I imagine your wife feels terrible about this sort of thing, like most women, and it sounds like you haven't the slightest idea how hurtful this is! I assure you it is much more hurtful than extra weight on your wife.

Sexual exclusivity means don't get aroused by looking at other women.

"Forsaking all others" means don't get aroused by looking at other women. Did your wedding include the phrase "forsaking all others"? Marriage means promising you don't get your sexual arousal from other people.


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Originally Posted by markos
[

Dr. Harley told me in a personal private phone call in 2011 that he almost never tells men to separate and that regardless of gender he tells them not to discuss separation ahead of time.

Markos is correct, he has made this statement many, many times on the radio. Any regular listener can tell you this. You have no reason to separate. It would further damage your marriage.

What is your REASON for wanting to separate?


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We were apart, and she lost weight. So separating is a way of breaking the grip of this long-term independent behavior. For some reason she seems to be able to lose weight when we are apart. The reason for separating is: it worked last time.

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Originally Posted by markos
Separation: Dr. Harley almost never recommends that men separate. And he recommends that spouses who separate NEVER discuss it with their spouse ahead of time.

Dr. Harley has a three article series on separation called When to Call it Quits that you should read:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi8111_quit.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit2.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit3.html

Did you read these, yet?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Did you read this link, yet?

Originally Posted by markos
Dr. Harley's Policy of Sexual Exclusivity states:

Quote
Never engage in any sexual act or experience that does not include your spouse.

Dr. Harley's policies were developed by studying couples with good marriages and couples with bad marriages. Don't expect to have a good marriage or to be able to get what you need in marriage without following all of the policies.

Closely related is Dr. Harley's Policy of Joint Agreement:

Quote
Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse.

Read the link here to find out more about both of these policies.

Also, I've never heard this described as a "policy," but Dr. Harley clarifies that if your spouse breaks the rules/policies, don't break the rules yourself, because that will just make the problems worse. The only few exceptions he makes are for ultra serious situations like infidelity.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Did you read this, yet?

The answers are in the links that have been provided.

Originally Posted by markos
Here's another article from Dr. Harley you should read:

Quote
First I fix the relationship, and nine times out of ten, sexual problems disappear

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5013_qa.html

I think this would be worth following in your situation. Is your wife in love with you? Definitely not - she clearly hates you! Follow the plan to get your wife to fall in love with you and THEN see how willing she is to lose weight for you.

By the way, the number one cause of depression for women is their relationship with their husband or boyfriend. It's clear her relationship with you is not happy for her, which could easily cause depression, which could easily cause weight gain. Women certainly find it much easier to lose weight when they are not depressed!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Indianajordan
We were apart, and she lost weight. So separating is a way of breaking the grip of this long-term independent behavior. For some reason she seems to be able to lose weight when we are apart. The reason for separating is: it worked last time.

Dr. Harley would advise that you do not do this.


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