Well... Let me start by saying I've read His Needs Her Needs (years ago, skimmed it again recently), as well as a lot of the materials on this website. But if I missed something that would help, please tell me!

Jumping right into it... I married a woman who I didn't, even on our wedding day, feel emotional love for. People don't believe me when I say that; they say, "there must have been some reason you proposed", and such. The story goes like this: We started dating when I was coming off a 2+ year relationship. It was a rebound. It was fun, new, exciting, and in the midst of that novelty, I proposed after only 3 months of dating. During the engagement, I got nervous. I wanted to call it all off but I figured I was just having cold feet.

On our wedding day, I was not excited. I was terrified. But again, I thought it was cold feet. Everyone else, all our families and friends, were happy and excited. No one but me seemed unsure. So I went through with it. That was 7 years and one child ago.

I could go on and on with evidence of our lack of connection but I'll fast forward to last year. I had tried to display love for her through my actions, but I never felt anything. After a long time it became exhausting and tapered off. Last year I started to notice some changes in her, also. She just seemed less content, less happy. So I finally asked her if she was happy. She said no, but that it had only been recently. She asked me if I was happy, and I said no. I tried to explain that there was something missing - connection, spark, whatever you want to call it. I only presented things in the present tense, but she literally grilled me like a defense attorney and finally backtracked far enough that I had to admit that I had never had those feelings.

Understandably, she was very upset. I asked if she would go to counseling with me and she wouldn't answer. Over the next 3 days I asked 10 times (I started counting after the 3rd time) if she would go to counseling with me. She wouldn't answer. Finally I just told her that *I* was going to go, and I hoped she would go also. Long story short, the counselor was no help. He couldn't work with the fact that I had never been in love in the first place. He just said that I had to decide what I wanted - divorce, or a "room mate" style arrangement.

After the initial conversation with my wife, and throughout counseling, she became very confrontational, rude, angry, mean. Literally the simplest topic would result in her attacking me (verbally). I.e. "what flavor ice cream do you want?" I told her repeatedly that I knew I'd hurt her, and I knew she was upset, but that she couldn't act with open aggression and disdain for me in front of our son. It continued, and our son started to mimic her behavior towards me. That's when I moved out. My relationship with my son improved dramatically.

Since then, we've gone to a few more counseling sessions, read some books (admittedly not MB - yet), and had a lot of discussions. She asked me to do a 40-day marriage challenge, which I did. Nothing makes any difference. In the midst of some particular bad disagreements which made me feel like I had to defend my rights to see my son, I filed for divorce. That is still pending settlement agreements and parenting plans.

I have considered moving back in, but the reasons are all selfish. I like seeing my son when I wake up. I don't like driving to and from the pickup/dropoffs. I don't like the tolls and gas mileage. I don't like living with my parents!!!! I don't like disputes over my son's schedule. Etc. I don't miss her...

But when I think those things, I'm reminded of why I moved out in the first place. Even if we could get back to the point where she wasn't teaching my son to mistreat me (which I think we could) I'm still left in a marriage where I feel like I have to FAKE love because I never felt it. She resents me for faking it in the past, and now that all the cards are on the table, I know our fuses will be even shorter than before. Our "relationship", whatever it was, ended when I proposed. My wife and I agree that there has been no growth or development since then. We also agree that if we'd dated longer and gotten to know each other better, we would never have gotten engaged or married.

So... what advice do you all have for me? I recently stumbled across MB again after having read His Needs Her Needs several years ago, but I'm unable to find advice for someone who never even had romantic feelings in the first place. I understand Love Banks build feelings, but my problem is I don't even have the desire to try. I don't have anything to fall back on - some feeling that I once had but lost... I admit it... Whatever it is that makes people want to keep trying, I don't have it.

What do I do...

Hi Heraclitus, welcome to Marriage Builders. This program is completely different from any other program in that it creates romantic love. Most counselors don't believe that is possible because, as you discovered, they have no earthly idea how that works.

Romantic love is created by effectively meeting each other intimate emotional needs. It is a very specific process. The problem with you and your wife is that you never learned how to do that on a sustained basis. There might have been some love at first [you describe romantic love in your post] but you likely fell out of love because you both stopped doing the things that sustain romantic love.



WE understand. When people are in love, they don't believe they will ever fall out of love. When they are out of love they don't believe they can ever get it back and are not motivated. UNTIL they try this for awhile and find themselves in love after a few week.

HAve you met someone you think you could be in love with?

Where did I describe romantic love? I'm not being ornery; I just don't follow. My problem is I was never IN love to begin with.


You make it sound so easy... At this point even "a few months" sounds very easy.


No, the only influence on me is my own feeling of despair.


Are there any resources I should look at for someone in my state of mind? I can think of reasons to stay married, but they're all practical and logistical and don't involve me actually "wanting" to stay. I'm also afraid of going through the motions again, getting nowhere, and being in these same shoes another 7, 10, 30 years from now.

Right here:
What you describe there is romantic love. It is not a "novelty." But even if you were NEVER in love, this program teaches you how to create it.


You make it sound so easy... At this point even "a few months" sounds very easy.[/quote]

WEll, it has worked for us so we know it is possible. It is harder to get divorced.


Most people who come here are presenting with one or both reluctant spouses. That is sort of an expectation. The couples who are gung ho don't come here; they just buy the books or sign up for the online program and do it.

This program does work and the ultimate goal would be for you to be in love with your wife.

Very good point...

Another question I have is about our current situation. I've read Dr. Harley's advice on Plan A, Plan B, and separations. I understand that if someone follows his sequence, that generally the separation wouldn't end until both parties are meeting each other's emotional needs. However, I'm already separated and did not use the MB sequence.

As we're starting the MB program, should I move back in, or stay out until we're better? The reason I left was rudeness and anger. No violence. But, I didn't do Plan A first.

I am worried about the "yo-yo" effect it would have on my son if I were to move back in and then ultimately end up at Plan B or even divorcing.

Having married parents is beneficial for children. Dr. Harley talks about it in his book Defending Traditional Marriage.

He wouldn't recommend a separation in your situation. The purpose of Plan B is to protect one from the other spouse in abusive situations. That does not apply here. Yes, you should move back.

I felt pretty abused, especially because it was all in front of our son and he was learning the behavior... But I certainly concede that I didn't handle things the MB way.

I'm not arguing with your conclusion but I'd like to clarify my question, to make sure.

I know I did not get to the separation the MB way. Maybe if I/we had done MB sooner, it wouldn't have been necessary. But the ultimate reason I moved out was because of my wife's verbal abuse in front of our son. I can take a lot of punishment but when my son started mimicking that behavior, I felt like I had to leave. It seemed like I was correct, because when I left, my son's relationship with me improved.

So my question is: Given the current situation, regardless of how I got here, is it advisable to move back in before any progress is made? I'm worried that if things go the same way they did beforehand, I'll be faced with that same situation - my son learning contempt for me - and that if it doesn't improve I'll eventually reach Plan B. I'm concerned about the emotional roller coaster that would be for my son. Would it be worse than staying out while we start MB?

Thanks for your help and patience!

Just so you know, Dr Harley does not recommend that MEN leave under those conditions. He does recommend that women DO.


You will need to move back in to make progress. I would make a total committment to your marriage. There is no reason you can't turn this around if you follow this program. [and I don't mean cherry picking] I would go to your wife, present the program and get her complete and total buy in. A big part of that will be no fighting.

I would be real careful about blaming your wife for your son's feelings. I am sure he is very angry about the situation as most kids would be. Kids are devastated by divorce, that is a natural reaction. That does not give him the right to disrespect you but you need to be more understanding.

Does she have angry outbursts?

How were you abused specifically?

Thanks MelodyLane! I should have mentioned my son is 3 - he mimics what he sees. The change in his behavior began before I left and improved afterwards.


It depends on what "outbursts" means. Angry comments, expressions, gestures, but she rarely raised her voice.

Never physically, only emotionally. I repeatedly asked her to not to display contempt for me in front of our son, because he was starting to learn it. His expressions, gestures, and even some speech started to resemble hers. That was some of the worst hurt I've ever experienced. This was before I moved out.

I'm not looking to play the blame game. That is the reason I left, yes, but I'm just looking for the best approach for the future vis a vis my son.

Will your wife come here and work with us?

I doubt she'll want to come on here, but she's definitely on board with trying MB. I've ordered 2 copies each of the latest editions of HNHN, LB, and 5 Steps. (My copy of HNHN was from 1986)

At this point I'd say I'm the less willing one (hence my original post), but I'm going to muscle into it.

Another great resource will be Dr. Harley. I would urge you to email him and discuss your situation with him. He can either read your email on the radio show and give you answer or you can speak to him directly if send him your phone #. [its all free]

Have you listened to the radio show? You can download the app for your phone and listen any time.

Good job!!