She did go to the bar this weekend...

Can someone help me with this conversation? Tell me if I have done something wrong?

I was asking for her guidance on a place where we will be staying... Budgeting is going to be tight. I found a place slightly out of our price range.

Her:If it's out of budget then why show it to me??

Me: I was kinda hoping you could help me come up with a way to get it done...

Her:What like get a job? When that happens, I'm not staying with u. U only make so much money. U can't "make" something happen if u don't have the money for it!

Me:I am not trying to get you upset. And no I am not referring to gaining extra money or you getting a job. I know that is the goal but for now, you are correct. I can only make so much and we have to stay within that. I was just asking for your wisdom and trying to make the best possible decision and I can't do it without your help and guidance

Her: Well the fact is, I don't want to help u! That is your responsibility to get what u can afford. I'm just going for the kids! I will always be upset with u! I don't do have anything to do with u!

Me: Why are you upset with me?

Her: Because I am having to live with u so I can have my kids!!! We have already discussed this!

Her: If it was up to me I would not be moving! But I have no choice!!

Her: And if I don't go, then I will be the bad person!!

Me: You do have a choice. I am not forcing you to go. I am helping you with everything and yet I am the one being blamed. If I am blamed for helping then I don't want to help. I am offering you my help. I am not forcing you to do anything

Me: Why am I the bad guy?

Her: U are forcing me because I will LOSE me kids if I don't go! And u were the one that said if I went u were paying my bills, I did not ask u to do that! I will be HOMELESS if I don't go!!!!!!! U still have no clue what I am going through!!

Me: I honestly do have an idea what you are going through. But you are right in that I don't know everything that you are going through and I have been asking you to give me your feelings. I want to feel what you are! I am so sorry you feel like I am going to make you homeless. Why would I ever do that? This is why I have offered my help! I'm not pushing it on you! You will NEVER lose your kids!!! I will never keep them from you! But I don't want them kept from me either!

Me: I am not forcing you to do anything!!! I have no idea how I am going to prove myself to you that I am NOT trying to hurt you or force you into anything!

Her: If I don't go then the kids don't go either. I have told u how I feel but u are not listening!! IM GOING FOR THE KIDS, NOT FOR ME, NOT FOR YOU!!

Me: Ok then what am I supposed to do?

Her: I'm at work, I'm not talking to u anymore! If u open your ears, u may start to understand!!!!!

Me: I have listened to everything you have said and know what you are telling me to be 100% true! My ears have always been opened and I do understand!! Why would I do any of this if I didnt? Why would I offer my help to you?

Me: I am asking you to help me feel your feelings so that maybe I can get a deeper understanding of your pain. What is it going to take for you to hate me less?

Thank you so much for your guidance!!! If/ when she brings up that I am forcing her or that she has no choice, I will keep quiet and just nod or let her know I'm paying attention.

the other day we were arguing over custody of the kids, same as the messages up above.

Good morning!

I know it has been quite some time since our last discussion and many things have changed, so I would like to update you. As you remember, my wife and I have been separated since September of 2015. After my plan B letter, there may have been 3 occasions where I broke communication silence and as expected, arguing happened. I tried to stay as positive as possible without turning anything back on her, yet I really wanted to know why this was all happening, but got no where. I also mentioned that I had forgiven her multiple times and would take her back when she was ready.



Finally the day before my Domestic Violence court date, She contacted me for the first time and gave me the most sincerest apology I have ever heard. Said that she was still very unhappy where she was and stated that it may not have been me, after all, that made her feel like that, but the stresses of life and the overwhelming house hold that we were trying to maintain. I told her to come back home. The charges were dismissed after several hours of waiting and stressing out. After, my mother invited her over for dinner. She stated that she wanted to come back but temporarily as roommates while she gets over the affair. I agreed but insisted that she re-read my final letter and agreed with it's requests. She did so and stated that she had some requests as well. That I find a job and keep it. That I listen to her complaints with an open heart. That I stop with all the love busters that I had done pre-breakup January 2015. I also agreed. She stated that she would do anything to gain my trust back including letting me look over her shoulder with texts, messages, and social media posts.



We are both well aware that we have a lot of hurt to overcome and this will not be easy. She stated that she needs time to heal from her recent breakup and that she is not completely over him. He and his family are not that type of people that she wants around her children and this change of status is mainly about them (her words). She feels that she will never be happy and has even mentioned suicide but would never do that because of our children. She is on depression medication and anti-anxiety. She moved out of his house Saturday. He was constantly texting her and messaging her via social media and she was allowing me to read and offer suggestion on what to reply with to maintain peace so that she could get her stuff out of his house due to his violent nature. She was finally out of his house, yet that night after she had went to bed, I took her phone to read the messages from earlier while she was getting her things. It stated that she still loved him and missed him and if things don't work out with me, she would return to him. I was upset by this and immediately brought it to her attention. I was not argumentative about it or tried to use judging words; however, I did Show her the messages and asked her to explain. She was more upset that I went behind her back to look into her phone. Said I did not trust her and showed dis-respect. Her excuse for the texts were to maintain peace. The next day, we changed her phone number and blocked him from social media and agreed that both of us would deactivate social media while we work through our problems.



The next morning, I asked to look at her phone while she woke up, and she said ok. First thing I noticed was that he had sent her a message over night on Facebook messenger. I asked her about it and she said it was impossible because he was blocked. I showed her that he was not. She refused to comment about it any further until she had woken up. She was mad. Later that day, she admitted unblocking him to view his page and comments about her. She also told him that she still loves him and misses him. He had also written on her wall that I cannot see and feared to ask her because she would get mad about trust and respect again. She later stated that she misses him and maybe coming back was not the right choice. She has been in a deep depression since. I asked her never to talk or message him again per our agreement. She stated yesterday that all I want to do is talk about rebuilding our marriage and she is highly annoyed. She isn't sure if she wants to be with me. She has started crying several times because she misses him and admits that she may never be happy. I keep asking her for time. I had her read the the first half of your article series "Coping with Infidelity" last night. This seemed to help slightly. We both deactivated our social media accounts. But right before bed, she had another episode of breaking down into tears and refused to let me comfort her. I tried to tell her, "I completely understand your feelings and respect you. This will pass with time and will get better."



It is really hard for me to have any sympathy for their affair and every time she tells me that she misses him or loves him, it breaks my heart again. However, I tell her not to stop talking to me about her feelings and what she is upset about. She has confessed to holding in all her feelings for so long for fear of hurting me or causing a conflict. So I am encouraging her to use the policy of Radical Honesty. But I am not being completely honest with her. The hurt I feel inside is extreme. I have a very hard time trusting her to be alone. She has already showen me that she is deleting messages and has lied to me. And yet, I am the bad guy who doesn't trust her and doesn't respect her. We do not sleep in the same room yet and have only been intimate once. Yesterday she stated all I want to do is talk and that is exactly what I was doing when she left me.... I agree I have a tendency to beat a dead horse. I talk way too much about this subject and how her life would be so much better if we follow your program and give me the chance.



So that's where we are.



P.S. Alcohol and drugs are no where to be found, I am committed to making God the foundation of our marriage, and I still haven't found work.

I am writing again because my wife is in real trouble. She has started sleeping till late in day, forgetting work and responsibilities. I am taking care of the kids for the most part. She stated that she is not wanting to do life anymore. I stay at her bed side for many hours trying to get her out of it. She is in complete withdrawal, from OM, from life, from me. I Just don't know what to do! I try to be kind and supportive, do any and everything she asks or needs. I'v taken her to a flea market (her favorite thing) for her to only pick out something for OM? At least she told me? she says it's her way of saying goodbye... All contact has been eliminated. Facebook deactivated and numbers changed. What do I do?

I am reading your book "Surviving an Affair". Very powerful messages. I am already half way through it. My wife has decided to leave again. She claims that she does not want to be with me and being here with me is making her even worse. I admit to pushing her to start the program with me and talk way more than I should. Sometimes it feels like a lecture. After speaking with my pastor, I have come to realize that I spent far too much time trying to fix her and her depression than actually working on myself and getting myself straight. To be very honest, I'm not sure if I was emotionally stable enough to have her back.

I just called her, and she stated that she did go to his house this morning and see him. She stated that she will be moving back with him this weekend. She will be leaving the kids in my care and all her possessions except for her clothes. This is reading out to be an exact copy of your book. I am deeply saddened by this but still have faith that one day she will come out of this fog. But I have to stop worrying about her and get myself straight. Any guidance you can offer to help me get through this would be greatly appreciated.

Hi ####
I'm taking these sentences from your letter of a few days ago: "she had some requests as well. That I find a job and keep it. That I listen to her complaints with an open heart. That I stop with all the love busters that I had done pre-breakup January 2015. I also agreed. She stated that she would do anything to gain my trust back including letting me look over her shoulder with texts, messages, and social media posts."

How were you addressing those complaints while she was with you? Even though she is in the fog, she will still be watching you to see if you are making an effort to solve the problems that she had with you in your marriage. The other man doesn't stand a chance with her, and it's likely that she will start letting you know that she is considering coming back to you. When that happens, make sure that these issues she is raising are all addressed in a way that gives her hope.

Dr. Harley

At first I pushed her away by trying to force her to take me back by continuously lecturing her on the program and telling her how much I will change. She hadn't even decided to work on the marriage yet. So this made it even easier for her to give in to him and break the silence. I have since showed her that even though she is going back to him, and as much as I don't approve of the decision, I respect it. I'm trying to make it my full time job to look for a job. One thing she told me yesterday, I'm still trying to add stipulations. I make many mistakes like this.

Here is my most recent letter to her. And I wonder if the plan B letter is something I should consider right now?

"My dearest love,
I have made many mistakes in my life and continue to do so. I have never wanted to hurt you. Everyday is an opportunity to learn and adapt and I will forever learn and adapt to find new ways to bring joy to your life. One of my greatest mistakes in life is pretending I know anything at all. When it comes to the one person in this world who has shown me what true love is, I know absolutely nothing. What i do know is that You are the master of my heart and of my world. With you standing beside me, WE can and will become the greatest love story ever written. But even the way we repair our relationship and how it is maintained should be a mutual decision and not something that I try to force. I have taken all the wrong steps, because I still tried to do what I thought was right instead of listening to your heart. With your help and your wants, needs and desires met, our lives and our children's lives will truly be happy! But it is your choice and your decision. I'm so sorry I failed you. I'm so sorry that I tried to force my views on you. I'm so sorry I gave you stipulations. I'm not a psychologist and I pretended to be one. Please think about giving me a chance to win your heart back. But I'm in no place to tell you what you want or what your feelings are. All I can do is listen to your heart and wait for my chance to prove my ability to become the man you want. You will not be changing me and I won't ever think about changing you, but the things that annoy you and upset you are all things that I will remove and replace with habits that brings happiness. I will be getting a job so I can support you. I will be finding a place for us, but it needs to be a place that you want and that you have every opinion on. So I fear that the place I get will not be to your liking. So I ask you. Please don't give up on us.

You are my greatest source of wisdom, intelligence, and love.

Love always, your husband and best friend,
#### #####
"

While she is gone, I have a lot of work to do. Get a job, find a new place, get a car, work on listening to her and refrain from making "but i will change" comments. I'm horrible at trying to be a know it all. I think I should developed the habit of saying "I'm not sure, but I can try and find out" my new saying... The guy she is with has a 5th grade education and I think it's relief for her so that she feels more intelligent. I never wanted to act like I'm smarter. But I have done just this on many occasions. I was completely wrong. She also told me that she knew I would catch her in bed with him on that day. She was also so distraught from all the stresses of life at the time and my relapse, she started the affair as a way to get away from me.

One suggestion on a possible article or topic of discussion, how to successfully gain the support of your spouse to start the program.

In reading Surviving an Affair, you'll notice that Sue didn't come to me for counseling until her relationship with the other man had completely ended. It's what I call the affair dying a natural death. This man doesn't stand a chance if you are really able to do what you put into your letter.

Thank you sir! I know I have my problems that must be fixed before anything will get better. She actually told me that she was disappointed in me that I hadn't improved myself while she was gone. I spent the entire time in depression and blaming my situation on her and him. I think I may have developed a since of worth and purpose through my wife's return and departure. So it's not all bad.

Oh and she has told me several times that she cannot see her self with this guy for much longer. But he does make her happy but doesn't provide her all the needs she requires. She is also ashamed to even let him meet her father. I know the fog is why she has left me and the kids again. I wish there was a way to show her this. She has stated many times that she values her children's happiness over her own, so why would she make her kids unhappy like this so she can be happy?

It's been a couple weeks since my last post and I have been in contact with Dr Harley...