You have to start using the program if it is to work. These are pretty basic concepts:

The Policy of Joint Agreement: Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse here

here

His demand for a reaction is called a selfish demand: here

So all the good feelings that might have been garnered from his note were erased with his selfish demand.

Would me sleeping in until 8 on a Saturday because I was tired be considered independent behavior because I did not check with him first and come to a mutually enthusiastic agreement?

I broke the policy of joint agreement by not negotiating a new schedule we were both happy with, and my leaving anyways was an independent behavior. It was not possible to negotiate because each of us presented our position and when we could not agree, my H said then you must do nothing. Meaning I would have to stay which was his position. I felt he was being unreasonable, though I did not say that. It seems like a way of controlling.

The default position is to do nothing until a THIRD OPTION IS FOUND. That means you brainstorm until a new decision is reached. You controlled HIM in this instance by forcing your independent behavior on him. His objecting to your thoughtless behavior is not "control." Your forcing that decision on him is "control. "


It was not only POSSIBLE, BUT NECESSARY THAT you negotiate a new decision. Negotiating does not mean you "present your position" and the other person has to agree or its nothing. It means you brainstorm until another option is found. You should put aside your OWN conclusions and brainstorm for other options taht make you both happy.

If you go into a negotiation with your mind already made up, the negotiation is over before it starts. That is how fights start!

Well, if you were sleeping, how could you discuss it? I am sure he would want you to get your sleep, right?

Do nothing does not mean you stay, fix his lunch, eat with him, and then go mow as his plan was.

Staying may at first glance seem like you would be capitulating, but you were under no obligation to proceed further with his plan. If you were not enthusiastic about fixing lunch, eating with him, or mowing in the afternoon, do none of those.
Certainly we can see what you're against but there's a range of options between capitulating to his control and forcing your control by acting independently. Choose to do the things in that between space, acting only for health and safety, until you can negotiate.

Keep your behavior clean and on track so it is obvious if he just won't negotiate and chooses to continue disrespect and demands.

I read it as meaning you two go into negotiations being pleasant with one another. It does not mean that he will never experience the unpleasantness of having to make his own lunch. Disrespect is a DJ, like if you said or thought he's crazy to think you're going to make him lunch after all that. He may be mistaken, but not crazy, if that makes sense?

Do nothing doesn't mean you and DD have to sit home though in the meantime, right? Just means the grass grows longer until you two can discuss it in a pleasant way?

The whole situation sounds miserable and frustrating, as does the being criticized for sleeping past 8 on Saturday. What kind of outside help are you getting, are you doing the coaching? Are you all getting any fun UA and FC time in? I see a lot of withdrawals for both of you today, how do you all refill the ticket?

I think everything will be okay. Stay tune!

Why was it not possible to negotiate a win/win solution? Every negotiation begins with two opposing perspectives afterall. When you say 'when we could not agree' it seems to me that you mean, 'when he would not be reasonable and see things my way' and that is not negotiation at all. 'Do nothing' is the standard POJA approach when an agreement cannot be made, yet you are making it seem as if it was your H's attempt to control your behavior and get his way. Do nothing in this case would mean, don't mow the grass in the morning, don't mow the grass in the afternoon, don't mow the grass at all until until a new agreement could be made enthusiastically by all. How would the do nothing be a win for him in that case?

It is not unreasonable to not agree with your perspective, by the way.

In fact, I saw several alternatives you both could have taken to resolve this -- but I have built that habit of brainstorming ideas to resolve conflict. The two of you are stuck in the mode of "It's my way or his way." In order for negotiation to work, you have to drop that idea and adopt the new habit of looking for a third option. One that will make both of you happy.


It also means neither of you make or eat lunch, so he's not just getting his way. You literally do nothing. The "do nothing" part of POJA is supposed to be uncomfortable -- it's not a place that either of you will want to stay.

I did not have time to post last week when this occurred. I agree with the other posters about brainstorming with abandon for alternatives, and doing nothing until you find a win-win solution. Even though the "DO NOTHING" is a difficult place, remember that nothing is on fire, except for emotions!

Similar things used to happen to us, especially on the weekend. We have found the most success with 2 planning mtgs. One, on Sunday afternoon, and another on Thursday. Naturally, our priorities change throughout the week, and we lose UA hours if we don't.

In our case, what would happen is that one spouse was sleeping while the other is essentially waiting for them to wake up. What can the awake spouse do while waiting for the other to wake? Nothing. lol. See what I mean? If he had gone to mow the lawn while you slept and read a book, then it would have been IB on HIS part.

"Tomorrow" should be discussed before tomorrow comes. Otherwise, expectations get the best of us, especially on weekends. A quick review before bed can make sure that both of you are still in the mood to follow the plan. If not, then a new plan needs to be made. Set an alarm the night before, or be upfront when you decide NOT to set the alarm. Both of you are perfectly entitled to change your minds. Had you done a quick review of the Satuday schedule on Friday, plans could have been renegotiated.

Now, I am giving these ideas, since they worked for us. However, following the program teaches us that we can always solve our problems over time, and the solutions we come up with are the better than anybody else's.

Thank you for these ideas. I think the problem is that when he said he was no longer enthusiastic about the plan and that since we couldn't agree on a new plan, that now the default is to do nothing. He walked away and continued with what he was doing. He does not see that the negotiating has to continue. He said the conversation was unpleasant now because I was "late", (though I maintain this was a misunderstanding), and not agreeing to his new plan. He keeps telling me that I am making conversation unpleasant and so he is not motivated to meet my need for conversation. I am not doing SD's, DJ's or AO's. He says that by asking if he is ready to see the counsellor again (we stopped going during the summer), I am disrespecting him and judging him. That I am displaying an attitude that he "is broken and needs to be fixed". Then he has an AO when I say I am not disrespecting him, I am just asking. When I point out the AO he apologizes but says he only had an AO because I am refusing to recognize my DJ.

Of course that is the problem from YOUR perspective. And it may be accurate, but your husband has different, accurate view of the problem. However, you guys keep arguing perspectives.

You should BOTH apologize for your part in the chaos and move forward following the program. Talking to a counselor about the problems will make it worse. Try to notice the positive efforts your husband made at the time, however imperfect they were.

Put your efforts into UA time and eliminating the lovebusters which bother your spouse. Nothing more needs to be said about that horrible day.

You guys need UA badly.

It actually doesn't HAVE to continue at that moment. You mentioned he had an AO, if he feels like he is about to become angry or he feels the conversation has become unpleasant/unsafe, he has every right to walk away and try to come back to it later.

I do this all the time when we have a conflict. If I feel that we are both starting to get upset or defensive or lb's are going to happen, I walk away until we calm down and can resume negotiations calmly.

That's not "doing nothing." Do nothing applies to him as well. So if he continues what he was doing before or during the conflict, it is simply Independent Behavior on his part.

You are trying to explain to us why the conversation wasn't really unpleasant and he was wrong to think that. Whether you understand why or not, if he says it is unpleasant for him, it is. He is not wrong to have that perspective.

Likewise, he attempted to tell you that your comment made him feel DJ'd. Instead of taking that feedback, you tried to explain why his perspective and feelings were wrong, and you did not really DJ him. If he says he felt disrespected, whether you intended to do so or not, he did.

So when you say you are not doing DJ's, I have a hard time believing that when in this short paragraph you have shown two examples of DJ's.

The first step in overcoming angry outbursts is to acknowledge that nobody can make you angry.

If he addresses an angry outburst by analyzing what you did rather than what he did, then that is disturbing. Nobody should have to be perfect in order to avoid being abused.

Unwritten- are you saying that asking "Are you ready to resume sessions with the counsellor after this summer break?" is actually a DJ?

It doesn't matter whether I think it is disrespectful or not. I am not there. I do not read your tone or gestures or know what context was going on when it was said. I know that these are all things that heavily impact whether I think my H is being disrespectful or not. Disrespect can be construed by more than just the verbal words.

What matters is that your H thought that it was disrespectful. Arguing why he thought it was disrespectful, asking other people if it was disrespectful, or telling him he is wrong for feeling disrespected, will achieve nothing but making him feel more disrespected. So unless that is your end goal, I would refrain from doing that.