My wife has been wonderful this weekend.

We haven't spoken about drinking or her commitment to stop drinking but I don't think we need to just yet.

Friday night we went Xmas shopping, took the oldest with us while he was in town. She was a little quiet, a little upset but she was conversing with me and for the most part was pleasant.

She arrived home Saturday night in a good mood. She spent the day shopping with her sister (who isn't a drinker) and a little time having dinner with her Mom ( who seldom drinks).

Yesterday was a good day. She continued to be in a good mood. She spent the majority of the day baking Xmas goodies. I helped where I could and even ventured out into town to get her some baking needs. We received a good half foot of snow Saturday night so the trip in wasn't just a fun little ride. She was very appreciative.

I don't know if she's noticed what I did while she was gone. She hasn't said anything.

I can't help but think she is really just a problem drinker. Regardless the end game as you have all said including Dr Harley is to simply quit drinking. I hope she comes to that same conclusion herself. However the horrible little guy that sits on my shoulder tells me this is nothing more than her trying to prove to me she isn't an alcoholic and that after a couple of months of abstinence she will be telling me it should be OK to let her go back to controlling her drinking.

Cross that bridge when we come to it. For now I am cautiously excited about her behavior/attitude.

Also I was very happy to hear back from her sister. She said she would keep my email to her a secret (for now) and that she will monitor her while she is there. She also provided me the history of what my wife would drink on days she stayed overnight at her home. She didn't drink much.

Please don't go down the rabbit trail again! The tendency is to minimize her drinking problem and when you do that, you tend to get into bargains for "controlled" drinking. Your wife is an alcoholic and you have been drawn into her alcoholic denial. Denial always leads to thought patterns that end with "I can handle it this time." I would just stop this narrative in your head now and move on. This is a dangerous narrative!!

You mean that you've cleared every scrap of alcohol from your home?

I'd rather not bargain with her. So my mentioning this was to get some feedback on what to say when she comes to me in a couple of months and says "I did as you said. I proved to you that drinking isn't something I have to have. That I can quit drinking without it causing us any issues. I think I should be able to drink.".

This day is coming. She is only doing this for me and/or to prove me wrong. I highly doubt she plans to quit forever.

Not entirely. The beer which she could see is gone. Some of the wine is gone. Some of the wine I plan to give to friends and family is locked up in a liquor cabinet (hidden) and I have hidden the key. There is no alcohol in the home that she can see or get to.

She hasn't asked so I haven't told her where it went.

BTW I thought I would mention that our bar is really more of a kitchen. A whole room with cupboards. It has a sink, small cooler, counter-tops and yes on one end is a short bar top.

I have considered calling the cabinet shop and having them fit the room with a cupboard where the wine rack is today. Unfortunately finances are a problem right now so that'll have to wait until we can figure out a way to pay for it. I can't make financial decisions independent of her as it impacts the both of us.

And to tear it out would mean an eye sore left in its place. Either way one or the other will be a trigger for her. She will never agree with me making a decision to take an axe to it.

The day is HERE that you not get lost in these rabbit trails. She needs to commit to quitting for LIFE. If she cannot do that, then that is proof she is an alcoholic. Normal people don't continue to use substances that causes problems in their lives. That is the behavior of an alcoholic.

Think about her "logic." Lets say a person goes crazy and breaks out into a massive rash when they eat bananas. Wouldn't it be insane to just stop eating bananas for a couple of months and then go back to eating them? '

My point is that normal people just quit the substance that gives them problems.

By the way, you should know that it takes about 12 months for all the alcohol to leave her system. That means that it will take 12+ months for the anesthesia to wear off so her brain properly functions.

Every alcoholic knows how to play the game of quitting temporarily to get someone off their back. It is a game and you shouldn't play that game with her. Once again, a normal person just quits. So if she comes back and says she should drink again, you should point out that this demonstrates she CAN'T quit.

Well, if you are going to allow it to be more important than saving your marriage...



How about repurposing it into a coffee/desert bar? You could use the wine rack for coffee syrups.

Thanks for all of the helpful facts Mel. I certainly don't know much about this disease.

She won't quit on her own forever. My prediction. That she is doing as you say, quitting temporarily to prove some point to me. And thus providing her ammunition to tell me to get off her back about the drinking. I sense I've got a long and probably quite tiring road ahead of me should I decide to continue to fight for our M. Or a short trip to a new life. I don't like either option.

Sorry, mini rant.

I, of course, would like to think I haven't allowed anything to be more important. I mean I come her to get guidance because these are things I know are important. However it is just one more thing I'd be trying to force upon her. One more time she looks at me like I'm the nut case that has his head screwed on backwards. In regards to her drinking at some point she needs to pony up and drive her own bus to sobriety. Then when she is there we can have an honest discussion about a dessert bar and syrup rack.

I believe in an integrated marriage as Dr Harley says. I definitely believe his principles lead to a happy and romantic marriage. I want that, I hope for each day. I, however, grow tired of feeling I'm the only one who seems to think there is more for us there. That what we have is half of what it could be, should be.

Tired of coming here being told how to have a happy marriage when I know what it takes to have it but can't seem to get there with a spouse who isn't on the same page as me. I so wish she'd have read Dr Harley and tried to push for his principles in our M. But it wasn't her. It was me, looking, hoping for more.

Tired of pushing for her to fix her drinking, having to tell her that I don't agree with her assessment of it and do things like pour money down the drain when she doesn't see the need.

She's happy with the status quo. I'm not. She says I'm never happy. She says that no matter what she does, in my eyes, there is always something wrong with her and that I am always trying to fix her. I am so tired of that aspect.

I want someone that wants to partner with me and not make me feel bad for the things that create issues for me, for us, in our M. Ya know what I mean?

End of mini rant. I needed to get that off my chest.

So, coffee bar?

She can't get there now though because there's a BAR in her house.


We don't just tell people how to have a happy marriage here.

We tell them what they can do to solve the problem when their spouse isn't on the same page as them and doesn't want to read Dr. Harley and use his principles and strive for more.

So

Coffee bar?

Again, MR. A - your love bank is empty.

You've got enough time in here to know that.


You've got enough knowledge and experience cultivated from your time here to know exactly what you should be doing - but with an empty love bank, your taker bucks at every suggestion that you need do anything more.

However, you also know that as men, more is expected of us when it comes to creating a safe and romantic marriage.

You have the knowledge and tools to do this. Now find the will.

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement.

Right now she seems to be doing just fine (almost better than fine) without me taking any additional steps. So I guess I'm doing myself no favors by ruminating about what might happen in a couple of months, assuming she doesn't drink before then.

My preference, as I suspect her preference as well, would be to discuss the impact of the bar at a time when she's ready to discuss it. I'd much rather come to an agreement together than trying to continue to force my will on her.

And again, other than removing the wine rack and possibly the cooler there isn't a whole lot we can do at this time. We are already strapped for cash. So much so we, again this year, aren't exchanging gifts for each other.

How would one convert a mini kitchen with a bar to look like a coffee bar? My W hates coffee. That one confuses me. We have this beautiful lacquered Alder bar. We use it to eat at, simply gather around it to socialize, as well as drink.

Hot cocoa bar.

Hold, I'm not sure my tank is empty. So your response is giving me pause. I want to think about that a bit. Maybe I'm just being selfish or childish and letting my Taker dictate.

"I'd like to discuss the impact of that ring the OM gave her at a time she's ready to discuss it. I'd much rather come to an agreement together than trying to continue to force my will on her."

Do you really want her to stop drinking? Your reluctance to remove triggers makes me wonder ...


You don't really understand the Giver and the Taker if you would call the Taker childish or selfish.

Your Taker is not bad, MrA. Your Taker is looking out for you. It is God-given. In this case it is protecting you from her Independent Behavior that is destructive to you AND her AND your children.

Do you want us to let you know if following your preference will work or not?

Yeah, we'd all rather do that but
YOU CAN'T COME TO AN AGREEMENT WITH ALCOHOL IN THE PICTURE
so this is just an irrelevant fantasy.


Her drinking is HER forcing her will on YOU.
Having a bar is HER forcing her will on YOU.

You not tolerating her drinking is you preventing her from forcing her will.
You getting rid of the bar is you preventing her from forcing her will.