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This gaslighting explanation makes SO much sense!! Thank you. It is so hard to keep focused on what I know is true when someone is shifting the boundaries all the time. Thank you for the insight!


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Also, what I am learning is that when your partner is having an affair you WANT to believe the best, you really want to believe that it doesn't mean anything, that everything is over, etc etc. So you are fighting against your desire to be told reassuring information as well as his desire for you to believe his version of the story. So I am fighting against both myself and him and it is exhausting. I have been reading abrrba's thread and taking comfort that he is also experiencing some of the same stuff with his wife.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
Also, what I am learning is that when your partner is having an affair you WANT to believe the best, you really want to believe that it doesn't mean anything, that everything is over, etc etc. So you are fighting against your desire to be told reassuring information as well as his desire for you to believe his version of the story. So I am fighting against both myself and him and it is exhausting. I have been reading abrrba's thread and taking comfort that he is also experiencing some of the same stuff with his wife.
Don't believe a waywards words because they are all liars. Only believe their actions. Is your WH willing to end the affair and move away from the OW now? If he refuses to do this you should go into Plan B now.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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My problem is he makes some concessions but not enough. Then he tells me I am not recognising all the efforts he is making.

Plan B now would mean throwing him out and us staying here in the family house. Moving country will take more time because I will have to register the kids with a new school and sign a contract on a house - but school fees are already paid up until the end of the year in mid-June.

I guess if I start Plan B now, it might actually be more effective since it will be difficult to come back from a separation where we are in two different countries 5 hours flight apart (which is what would happen if i only started Plan B when he moves to his new job).

I have asked him to cancel his three planned work trips and he says he can't. I have also asked him to work from home, only going to scheduled meetings with people after telling me who they are, what the meeting is for and providing evidence to show it is real, until the end of his notice period. He also says that is not feasible but will "try to be at home as much as possible". I don't think that is good enough. He has always been at home a fair amount and STILL CHEATING. So it is just as good as doing nothing as far as I am concerned.

He has just called me now to say he has a surprise for me, he just wants me to relax and he will be home soon. I know it is a charm offensive to get me to take off the pressure. Or, less cynically, he really believes if he is super nice we can just forget about it and go back to normal


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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If he doesn't agree to cancel his work trips, should I go with him (i also have a job so that would be difficult)? Or should I just go straight to plan B and give up on the persuasion to quit the job, since it is clearly not working.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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He keeps saying he is willing to work on the marriage but I have to be reasonable. He wants to negotiate everything, tries to blame it on cultural differences, tells me there is no way a man can live like that, he will go insane, etc.

How can I do plan A when what he is telling me all the time is that he wants me to give him freedom? Being the best partner apparently means giving him freedom to do what he wants. I guess this is textbook stuff, isn't it?


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Plan A is not plan doormat. Plan A is being your best self, while insisting on conditions that make recovery possible. Certain conditions are nonnegotiable.

He will be able to live like that (just like millions of other men) and most certainly not go insane. You can tell him that if he really goes insane, you might reconsider negotiating.

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Plan B needs preparation. Use the time of plan A to prepare for plan B.

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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
How can I do plan A when what he is telling me all the time is that he wants me to give him freedom? Being the best partner apparently means giving him freedom to do what he wants. I guess this is textbook stuff, isn't it?
I'm not sure you are reading my posts. You should not be doing Plan A any more.


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His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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chalkncheese, Plan A is inappropriate, you should be going into Plan B until he leaves that job and is serious about recovery. He is obviously not serious.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thank you very much for your advice. I will try to move into plan B today or tomorrow.

We went away for the weekend and he showed more willingness to change, but not enough. So I will move to no contact.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Asking my husband to leave has created a situation. He says he will not go. He has taken my phone again and shut himself in my study.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Now he has left the house but he has taken all of the keys, my car keys, my phone, and the cable for my desktop computer. I had done some preparation for Plan B already, so I have now locked up our gate with a chain and padlock so that he can't come back in, but I am anxious about what is going to unfold.

Does Plan B normally start with confrontataions like this?


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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I don't feel I have enough insight to give the best advice.

The amount of control alarms me. Are you safe?

In your country, does he have the right to take your car keys and phone, or can you ask the law/police for help?

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I think I am safe. The gate is locked and we have a security company so I can press the panic button if there is a problem. I don't think the police would be much help with the phone and car keys. But I would call them if there was any shouting or violence.

He took my phone after the exposure too, but he brought it back. I am hoping he will do that again.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Can you at least file a complaint? Did you call the nearest embassy for help?

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If you get your keys back, have a duplicate made. And it is probably wise to buy a burner phone.

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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
Does Plan B normally start with confrontataions like this?
Does that matter?

Call the police, and contact your embassy, for heavens sake.


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Thank you for the advice. I have now spoken to the embassy. They were a bit unsure how to help, given that the law prevents me from crossing the border, but they have agreed to circulate my and my children's names to the immigration officials at the border and alert the border police so that if I come to the border urgently needing to cross without permission of my husband, they might be able to help me.

He has now returned the car keys, house keys, my phone and my computer cable. I was not able to keep him out of the house last night so he broke in. But because I did not get angry, I think he is realising that this is no joke and he can't manipulate the situation. He is coming to fetch all of the bags of his clothes at 11am.

Last edited by chalkncheese; 02/21/17 01:41 AM.

BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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I'm sorry to read what you are going through. I went through something like this too, it isn't easy. Do you have a mother, brother or sister that can come and stay with you until you are ready to leave for good? He will not be able to manipulate the situation as easily if you have protection from another adult.

Oh and guard your children's passports and important documents as if your life depended on them. Put them somewhere really safe, preferably outside the house.


3 adult children
Divorced - he was a serial adulterer
Now remarried, thank you MB
(formerly lied_to_again)
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