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It deprends on the age of the child.
If Saturday does not suit you designate a time/day that is suitable for you.
You do not have to give him access for an entire day abd you can arrange the conditions in a way that makes you feel the children will be safe.

If you cannot leave the country without your husbands permission, how can you be sure that he cannot take them and has them live somewhere else?


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Honesty is bedrock essential. If he is not willing to be honest, your marriage will have no chance. Considering he is a serial cheater, your chances are not the best to start with.

Is the baby old enough to be without its mother for a full day?

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Thanks Happyheart. He also cannot take the children across the border without my permission, so I know he can't take them anywhere. I have alerted my embassy of the risk, and I believe this information has been communicated to the border guards, but I will check again in the morning. I have dual citizenship for the country next door to us (the only country we border), so even if he was to cross the border with the kids through faking documents, it would be into my country (even though i do not consider it my home since i have no relatives there) and I would be able to call the police.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Thank you Goody2Shoes. This is a good reminder that if there was ever a chance for him to come back, he would have to be an entirely different person really.

No, i don't think the baby is old enough to be away from me. He could see her for an hour or so, but he wouldn't be able to cope with things like changing nappies or feeding. So I was planning just to send the three boys and keep the baby with me.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Another question: I don't think my WH has told anyone that he has moved out. I think keeping this news secret means he is not feeling the pressure that his family and friends would be putting on him if they knew. Should I be communicating this news to people, as I did with exposure (although leaving the work and OW's contacts out of it)?

Also, if my family (mum, sister, brother) wants to contact him to express their outrage at his behaviour, is that recommended if we are in Plan B or should I tell them not to and just leave him alone?


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Don't avoid he topic if it comes up, but don't contact people with this purpose. Plan B is avoiding thinking of him, so you'd better spend that time painting your toenails or watching videos of baby penguins.

And for your family, by all means, if they want to tell him how they feel about it, let them. Just ask them not to share his response with you. Ask them not to talk about him at all.

Print out labels with his new address or "return to sender", so you have as little as possible trouble with his mail. Just stick a label on it and post it once a week. Or even better, have your personnel take care of that.

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Since you are just starting in plan B, it is probably not watertight yet. If he slips through and you are confronted with him, don't share personal info. You don't have time to talk because the food is in the microwave/the doorbell rang/your nailpolish needs to dry and you need to take care of that. Have some answer ready, don't be tempted to engage in conversation.

Did you already change your phone-number? Did you change your e-mail? Does he still have physical access to your house if he wants?

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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
I have a question about a hypothetical future: if he decides to come back hat in hand but still refuses to be honest about all the things that he has done, is it possible to move forward? Does that depend on whether or not I can accept that I will never know the truth? Or is full confession an essential part of his personal commitment to creating a new marriage for the future? I have read the article and letters on the website about Just Compensation, but knowing my husband I am not sure I will ever get the truth.

Have any other MBers moved forward with recovery without 100% honesty about the affair/s?

I don't think you understand what 'hat in hand' means. It means making a complete 100% change and being willing to do *whatever it takes* to salvage your marriage. Obviously, if he were to come back with exceptions to this, he is not 'hat in hand' at all, and he is not serious at all.

Being honest is about more than showing a commitment to the marriage too. It is about affair proofing your marriage. You are married to a serial cheater, and if he continues to withhold information from you and is not ready to commit to radical honesty, you can never know where the threats are or how to protect your marriage both from affairs of the past and threats in the present and future.

Bottom line is, if he is not willing to agree to radical honesty (and I would even require a polygraph if it is available in your country, given his serial cheating), he is not serious at all.

But then again, this is hypothetical at this point because he is showing no willingness to do any of this.

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Thanks Goody2Shoes. I guess I have to work on getting him totally out of my head. I can already feel that being in Plan B has decreased my stress so much, so I know it is the right thing to do. We don't get physical mail, so that's not a problem. But I do need to get accustomed to this new reality which seems to have come about so quickly. After 10 years of cheating and stress, it is a big change to suddenly be living in calm.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Did you already change your phone-number? Did you change your e-mail? Does he still have physical access to your house if he wants?

I will change my phone number on Monday. Just have to get to the store in the neighbouring country since I am roaming. I will change my email address now - I hadn't thought of that.

He doesn't have the keys to the house anymore or the buzzer to open the gate, so he can't get in without someone letting him in. If he came here angrily trying to force his way in, we probably wouldn't be able to keep him out. Although he seems to have accepted the no contact arrangement with smses about practical issues going through the IM, so I am no longer anxious about him trying to force his way back home. He seems resigned to what has happened now.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Bottom line is, if he is not willing to agree to radical honesty (and I would even require a polygraph if it is available in your country, given his serial cheating), he is not serious at all.

Thank you unwritten. This is an important reality check. I need to lower my expectations and just focus on me and the kids. I've done everything I can. Thank you for your advice.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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When I get my new phone number, should I give it to my family in law or not? Obviously, if I give it to them they could easily give it to WH. But I feel uncomfortable about preventing them from contacting me to keep in touch with the kids, especially since I am raising a child who is biologically theirs but not mine (from a previous affair of my husband's).

I am also wondering if I should establish contact with the mother of the child now that I am in plan B. We cut off contact with her when we brought the boy to live with us. But now it is a bit complicated if I am living apart from his biological father.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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It really depends on the situation. Does he see you as his mother, the relationship between you and the child, the relationship with the siblings, can you handle everything, finances, your emotional wellbeing.

For a child that is integrated in a family, it would be very hard to be ripped out of that, especially if his egoistic father is the only biological parent he could realistically be going to.

I don't know about the legal measures - did you adopt him, etc. This may be a case where you would want to contact Dr. Harley for advice, although you are the one who has to make a decision you can live with.

I suspect it may also have to do with the character of the child, because a difficult temperament can lead to resentment, even in biological parents.





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Thanks Happy Heart. Yes, he sees me as his mother and my other children as his siblings. He has lived with us since he was 3 years old. We are close and he is a confident, loving and emotionally secure little boy. But we are different races, which does make me worry for the future.

We have been trying to finalise adoption for a few years, but it was complicated by the fact that we are living in a third country that neither my husband nor I are from. We first tried to do the adoption in my country, but because we were not living there permanently, social services could not do a "surprise" visit to check on our home arrangements. We then tried to do it in our country of residence, but we found that was impossible because we do not have permanent residence here and the child is not from here. So we have now initiated the process in the child's home country, but I have no idea how long it will take and whether it is even possible to complete if I have separated from my husband in the meantime. I guess it will depend on the consent of both biological parents. I think they are unlikely to withhold it, since he is happy and thriving with his half-siblings, and I am willing to support him both emotionally and financially until adulthood.

Thank you for the suggestion to contact Dr Harley. I will do that.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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My husband is already trying to send messages saying he misses me and loves me. But I think it is too soon for there to be any actual change, since I only started plan B 3 days ago. Should I just ignore these approaches? He is not showing any concrete change (not leaving his job, not doing anything to implement extraordinary precautions, showing no inclination towards radical honesty, still prioritising his job over everything else, etc) just words, which I guess shows he is just missing the cake-eating rather than anything else. Right?


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Hat in hand, repentant and willing to implement all extraordinary precautions mentioned in your plan B letter.

Since he is sending messages to you and not your IM, he didn't get the message yet.

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Don't respond.

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Don't respond.

Thank you! Will maintain NC.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
My husband is already trying to send messages saying he misses me and loves me. But I think it is too soon for there to be any actual change, since I only started plan B 3 days ago. Should I just ignore these approaches? He is not showing any concrete change (not leaving his job, not doing anything to implement extraordinary precautions, showing no inclination towards radical honesty, still prioritising his job over everything else, etc) just words, which I guess shows he is just missing the cake-eating rather than anything else. Right?

It is not Plan B to receive this fogbabble. Your IM should not even be forwarding it to you. And if it did not go through your IM but to you directly, you need to find a way to close up the holes so he has no access to you.

When you hear this fogbabble it sets you back and causes you emotional damage, which is what you are trying to prevent in Plan B. Don't just ignore this talk, fill up your Plan B holes so it never gets to you in the first place.

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Thank you unwritten. He sent it to my work email account, so even though I had changed my personal email, it got through. I have now asked our IT dept to bounce back emails from his address. I am already starting to see how valuable the clarity that comes with plan B is. It really helps you adjust to the fact that he would have to move mountains in order to fix this - and there is very little chance that he has that motivation.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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