I need to start by saying I am with her and for her and love her very much. I fully agree that we have struggled with communications a lot in our married life. This has not been a Merry Christmas nor a Happy New Year so far for either of us. I am very guilty of saying "I feel the same way" because I do. I know that she is hurting and a lot of my hurt is that she is hurting. I really don't know how to help her when I am hurting so much too. I keep saying "let's work together to help each other stop hurting" In fairness to her, she doesn't hear me because of her hurts and I get frustrated because I can't seem to get her to hear what I'm actually saying. I'm really glad that we are talking to someone else because I have thought for some time now that our problems are bigger than the two of us and we are unable to really help each other when we are both so hurt. She thought I would be angry when she told me that she was posting here. I was apprehensive a bit at first because I wasn't sure what she was saying on here. She told me at around 2 this pm about posting. By the time I got home from work shortly after 4 I was happy that she started posting even though I didn't know what she said in the posts. Just the fact that she reached out, gave me great hope! I read all the posts and was not surprised by anything she said. I have a different prespective on some of the things she said. I have always had trouble expressing myself in a way that she doesn't "feel judged" or "not valued". My problem is I haven't had the ability to say things in a way that she hear what I intend. She hears belittling when I have no intention of being belittling. Don't get me wrong, I have said many belittling things to her along with many other hurtful things in the midst of a disagreement. Many times when I say I'm sorry (with no "buts" after the apology) she won't accept it, saying I'm just trying to get out of it and I am not sorry at all. This bothers me a lot because I know I'm wrong a lot and am mostly - at least sometimes- willing to admit it. When Sugercane asked "why are you both stressed, given you are so close to retirement?" I ask the same question. Maybe after years of children, foster children, running a farm that we had to give up, being defrauded in another business venture, and going through bankruptcy along with our marital issues and issues regarding faith, as well as the fact I am an alcoholic - I quit drinking 3 weeks before our wedding but had several slips over the next 7 years and then none until 7 years ago when I drank 1 beer - maybe we are not used to having no external stresses and now are being affected by things that may have been overshadowed in the past. I think our present issues were always there somewhat and maybe are surfacing more now. All I want is your advise on how to bring out the best in each of us. Sorry for going on - that's another problem I have. I can tend go on. I will address some of the other things in future posts. Thank you so much for listening.

Welcome to MB, and thank you for signing up. The fact that you did so is a very good sign that you care about what is going wrong in your marriage, and you are willing to work to make it better.

Your wife raised a few issues, but the ones that stood out for me are about your attitude to church attendance and church activities, and your attitude to "your money" in general. I'm sure you read my reply to your wife about these issues.

What do you know about the Policy of joint Agreement? How do you think you could use it in decisions about money and church activities?

I will address my prespective on both these matters in the next two days. I am aware of the POJA and hope to use it in both these areas.

.I said I would address my prespective on ''church'' and ''money''. First on church. To me it is not ''church''. It is faith in God and how I express it. I was born and baptized a Catholic. My parents live practice their faith and taught it to us much better than I have. On the issue of attending Mass on Sundays, one of the commandments of the Catholic Church is to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation - these include Christmas and New Years. As a Catholic, I very seldom go to Mass on Sunday because I am obliged to although my church teaches that it is a serious sin to miss Mass through my own fault. I must say I noticed quite a number of disrespectful judgments in the responses to Barigirl's posts. You were telling her how I felt, what I was thinking, what I was willing or not willing to do. I think that should be for me to do. For me to not follow the commandments of my church and call myself a Catholic is like people here not following POJA but saying they are following the principals of MB. I have not asked my wife to join me at Mass due to our history on that subject. I need to go to ask God's forgiveness for my failings and to get the graces He offers through Mass and Communion in order to have the strength to try to follow Him for the following week. I admit, I do a poor job of that a lot of the time. Yes I am very lonely in the fact my wife does not share my faith with me. I did ask her within the last two weeks to hold hands with me and say the following prayer with me on a daily basis as I see it as containing all the main principals of MB. It was given to us 38 years ago at the end of our marriage preparation course.
It goes: We thank You, Oh God, for the love You have implanted in our hearts. May it always inspire us to be kind in our words, considerate of feelings, and concerned for each other's needs and wishes. Help us to be understanding and forgiving of human weaknesses and failings. Increase our faith and trust in You and may Your prudence guide our life and love. Bless our Marriage Oh God with peace and happiness and make our love fruitful for Your Glory and our joy both here and in eternity, Amen.
To me it pretty well sums up all the principals of MB. She is not at the place to do that and I accept that. Maybe I should have asked her years ago. We did say it together for quite a while in the early years but it fell by the wayside. I started saying it again about 3 months ago. Yes my faith is very important to me. Growing up my mother had a picture in the bathroom that said JOY, Jesus, Others, Yourself. I saw that many, many times over the years. It had influenced me a lot.
I keep my "church" activities to almost the bare minimum out of respect for my wife's feelings about it. I was asked on several occasions to join the Knights of Columbus but declined, not because I wanted to but to respect my wife's wishes. I used to read at Mass and serve Communion. I no longer do that. There are many other ways I might be involved in my church and in parish life but I choose not to and tell the people when I am asked that my marriage must come ahead of all but the bare necessities of my faith. One thing I do do is take my Mom and Dad to Mass most Sundays. I feel very privileged and honored to do that as I watch them at 90 and 96 going hand in hand to honor God. I recognize that going to Mass when my wife doesn't enthusiastically agree is independent behavior. Hopefully we can POJA that but in the same way that there is not a whole lot of wiggle room in using the POJA, I feel there is not a whole lot of wiggle room for me not to be able to attend Mass on Sunday. It may be a few days before I address money.

I think what you re saying is that there are some things concerning your religion that you are going to go ahead and do, regardless how those acts make your wife feel. Would you agree with that assessment?

I think that this is the heart of your marital problem.

POJA gives you the solution to the unhappy and unfulfilled aspects of your marriage that each of you has talked about. POJA ensures that you never do anything that your wife is not enthusiastic about (and vice versa). If you do not do things that make her unhappy, she won't be unhappy.

What you've just told me is that you will not abide by that principle; so what now? How do you intend to rescue your marriage?

Here's a show on POJA.
Radio Clip on POJA
Segment #2

I apologise for the DJs. It would be good if you could tell us how you feel, and so on.

In your account today, I saw some areas in which you are not willing to take your wife's feelings into account, and these are areas that are making your wife unhappy.

I believe POJA will work as well as we are willing to work it and I'm willing to work it. I do have much to learn.

Did you listen to these?

Barigirl and I listened. Makes sense

I feel very disrespectfully judged and represented in the above post. The situation is also poorly stated. I really hope W clarifies this situation. I really don't know how many more selfish demands, disrespectful judgements,angry outbursts etc. our marriage can take. I truly love her but l feel I need to at least totally withdraw as much as it hurts. I would also appreciate if responders asked for more information before assuming I am being demanding and disrespectful.

I recognize and accept her feelings. However it doesn't negate my feelings and it doesn't remove the situation. I feel we need to be able to deal with situations maturely as they arise. We went to our son's house. My parents, 95 and 90 were there for about an hour. Enjoyed seeing their grand children and great grandchildren. Absolutely, nothing said to offend anyone. Mother was not critical, demanding, or controlling. I really don't know what else to do. There will be family situations in the future. How do I handle them? Am I expected to stay away from our son's home when he invited his six siblings an their families and W and I and his grandparents. Does W bear any responsibility in making the best of a situation?

That is a disrespectful judgement.

If your wife doesn't like to be around your mother for whatever reason, you shouldn't see your mother until you can negotiate a solution.

However, if you are demanding or disrespectful, negotiation cannot happen.

The default of POJA when you do not agree is to do nothing. That means not seeing your parents. If you want to change that, you will need to respect your wife's perspective and take it into account.

BG,

When Dr. Harley sees a couple he doesn't counsel them in the same room because fights tend to happen, and that makes the marriage worse.

In the same way, when a husband and wife both post here on the forum, we usually ask that they post on separate threads so we can avoid those fights. That's what was asked of me and my wife when we first came here, and I'm passing it along to you.

As far as disrespectful judgments, most men who show up here couldn't tell a disrespectful judgment from a hole in the ground. I certainly couldn't when I first came here. I thought I was following this problem perfectly and my wife just mysteriously didn't respond and hated me.

The truth was I was a disrespectful jerk and needed a lot of training to learn to recognize and eliminate disrespectful judgments.

The same is true of you. You went on to call your wife immature. That's really disrespectful. Please start keeping a written record of the times you learn you are disrespectful to your wife so you can start to learn to recognize and eliminate this.

We don't need to ask for more evidence - unless your wife is completely lying about what happened, she is describing you being disrespectful. So add that to your list, too. Telling your wife how to feel or what she should do is disrespectful. Anytime you express yourself with the word "should" you are being disrespectful.

Nobody should put up with that in marriage. If you want your wife to feel love for you you are going to have to do the same thing I did: learn what you are doing that hurts her and learn how to stop it. Being defensive isn't going to help that process at all (trust me; I learned the hard way).

Thank you. Sorry about not responding sooner. I was unaware about posting on her thread. Had the posts moved to here. We talked this morning about the love busters and how we use them too much. We also are recognizing that situations are not the problem so much as how we deal with the situations i.e. Love busting. Where do I go from here? I have situations that I feel need to be addressed. She suggested that I post the situations here rather than her and I trying to address them. Is that a good idea? I think it is. Do you agree?

Situation: my posture is a love buster to W. The way I walk, sit, (slouch) stand (hunched shoulders) etc. is a love buster for her. She says I am lazy and don't care that she feels this way. My genetics are not great in this area. I admit I don't work on my posture enough. I do try to stand tall and sit up straight for her but fail more than I succeed. It is a real love buster for me when I am standing in my best (to me) posture and she comes up to me and corrects the way I am standing. All my family lock their knees when they stand and most have varying degrees of humped shoulders. I am admitedly one of the worst. I love bust her by my posture and she love busts me when she points out that my posture is bad. What do we do?

If there are situations/issues I need help with from you guys and I feel discussing them with her is unsafe, is there a place I can do this because I don't want to hurt her?

You need to learn to NEVER engage in the abusive love busters of demands, disrespect, and angry outbursts. They should never happen. It's not that they happen "too much." If they happen even once a year, that is too often.

What you can do is post to the forum for guidance on how to address a situation, but be respectful in how you post. Don't use the forum to vent about your wife, or as a chance to disrespect her.

In other words, practice talking about the situation respectfully, and invite people to point out to you when you have failed.

Fully agree, any is too many, thanks. We are progressing, slowly, but progressing! Will await any insights on other issued raised