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Since this lawyer disclosed your husbands strategy to you, you can be sure he will also talk to your husband about your strategy. OW will also be updated.

Look for another lawyer, who will help you with your strategy and is not acting in the best interest of OW.

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Here in the states - and in most other countries - it is a conflict of interest for one attorney to represent both parties unless the parties waive the conflict. I would have a serious time ever waiving a conflict of interest or advising a client to do so.

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Thank you Goody2Shoes and BritsBrat. I have now sought recommendations for attorneys based in the neighbouring country, where I work and have dual citizenship, from a lawyer colleague of mine. I will call them in the morning. I am feeling increasingly vulnerable in this environment because I am so foreign and have a different cultural background.

I am european and my husband is African, and we live in Africa. There is a cultural approach to sorting out marriage problems here whereby the first question anyone asks the wife when she raises an issue is: "Have you discussed this with your husband? What does he say?" Even the police asked me what my husband said, and whether he knew I was at the police station, before they would agree to open a case file about the threats. Everyone I come across wants to help a married couple sit down together and (in my interpretation - as a very foreign person) persuade the wife to accept whatever her husband has done and bring back peace to the family home without asking any change at all from the man (apart from the most superficial of apologies).



BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Booked appointment to meet a new lawyer for Monday. Feeling a lot better now. Thanks for putting me straight everyone! Your advice is so valuable. At least I can get him to advise on some of the complicated international aspects of this mess and protect myself and the kids just in case.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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WH has been calling my nanny asking to speak to the kids before school and before bed. I feel like he is trying to break into my plan B and insert himself into our family life, so I don't feel comfortable with him calling to speak to them at all. However, I also don't want to put my nanny in an awkward situation of having to be a gate keeper or fight my battles for me - because that is not fair to her at all.

I could ask my IM to refer him back to the Plan B letter, in which I had stated that he would see the kids once a week on saturdays at a place and time arranged through our nanny, and that this calling is not acceptable. Would that be reasonable? I'd be grateful for advice.



BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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I'm having sudden floods of realisations about suspicious incidents happening so often over the past 3 years. But I guess with the four pregnancies (three miscarriages) and the adoption of my husband's OC from another affair all happening since the beginning of 2014, I was just too occupied with other traumas to see it.

Maybe I couldn't have done anything about it even if I had had proof. Ironically, I feel in the strongest position with regards to our relationship that I have ever been in. Despite the fact he has been cheating the entire time, by bringing the OC to live with us, and working hard to create a happy and loving family environment, we have a much happier and stable home than we have ever had before. And the loss of it through Plan B is really hitting my husband hard. I just can't understand how we could have built something in the midst of him cheating all the time. It doesn't make any sense.

I understand that when this affair started, we were at a real low point - as a result of the combined traumas of all his past cheating, and the unresolved issue of the OC. But since then things have got so much better. Bringing OC to live with us has been a real success. He is happy, healthy, emotional secure and really loves the family. I just can't believe that all the time we were dealing with that situation, my husband has also been establishing a relationship with someone else. So he has built two parallel relationships? I am now worrying if the OW's child is his too.

Now my husband has accepted this job in another country that will take him away from OW. And all the plans were for us to move there as a family. But I have put a stop to all that. I hope I did the right thing.

The police just called me following up on the case I opened against OW because of her threatening me and accosting me in the mall car park.




BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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I think the reason I have been absorbed with these thoughts is that there was a hole in my Plan B. I have an old email address that autoforwards to my new one. My husband broke into it and changed all the security info so now I can't get back into it. But it still autoforwards to my new account. So he sent an email to that account yesterday and it then got autoforwarded to my new account, by passing my blocking of his address.

I have now added this old email address of mine onto the blocked senders list and I hope that will prevent any future messages getting through from him.

It is amazing how much a couple of lines on an email really messes with your head.

Checked the age of OW's daughter and it definitely can't be his. She was born a year before we first moved here (and neither of us had ever been to this country before). I know it doesn't really matter, given all the terrible stuff he has done, but having been through the indescribable pain of finding out another woman is pregnant by my H before, it is the thing I am most terrified of.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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What Plan B things are you doing for yourself elf? What self-care are you doing? You're doing great and I wouldn't worry about all the times he has cheated before, just know that most likely he has always had a SSL.

Now is your time to think of you and your children.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Hi Brain Hurts,

Thanks for the support. I have having a bit of a tough time focusing on self-care because of having to spend a lot of time at the police station. They told me this morning they are going to arrest the OW and take her to court on Monday. There are witnesses to what happened who corroborate my story. But the whole thing is making me extremely anxious and stressed. I am worried they will put me in front of her in court or something. My husband is away at a conference, coming back this weekend. I have no idea if he knows what is going on since I am having no communication with him.

I feel that I have done the right thing in reporting her to the police since she threatened me in a public place and has made me feel unsafe going about with my children in my home. But i have never had any dealings with police or courts before and it is a very scary process. I am also having to fight with myself to not drop the charges because I am a nice person and I don't have any desire to hurt or punish people just for the fun of it - however, I understand that she did something to me that has made me feel unsafe, so my action is justified.

You are absolutely right that he has always had a secret second life. Actually, he has got a lot better over the years though. I would say becoming married has been a long slow process of realisation for him.....lasting a decade so far.....and he still doesn't seem to get that married = one woman for life.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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From reading so many other threads, I think betrayed spouses really commonly have this same dilemma that I feel now: you don't want to do something that your WH might never forgive you for, so you are reticent about being really strong in the interventions to break up the affair. But while we, as the faithful partner, feel that conscience kick in to stop us doing hurtful things, we must remember that our partners and their OWs didn't consider us for one second when they were causing all these messes.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
Hi Brain Hurts,

Thanks for the support. I have having a bit of a tough time focusing on self-care because of having to spend a lot of time at the police station. They told me this morning they are going to arrest the OW and take her to court on Monday. There are witnesses to what happened who corroborate my story. But the whole thing is making me extremely anxious and stressed. I am worried they will put me in front of her in court or something. My husband is away at a conference, coming back this weekend. I have no idea if he knows what is going on since I am having no communication with him.

I feel that I have done the right thing in reporting her to the police since she threatened me in a public place and has made me feel unsafe going about with my children in my home. But i have never had any dealings with police or courts before and it is a very scary process. I am also having to fight with myself to not drop the charges because I am a nice person and I don't have any desire to hurt or punish people just for the fun of it - however, I understand that she did something to me that has made me feel unsafe, so my action is justified.

You are absolutely right that he has always had a secret second life. Actually, he has got a lot better over the years though. I would say becoming married has been a long slow process of realisation for him.....lasting a decade so far.....and he still doesn't seem to get that married = one woman for life.
Yes you did the right thing and don't back down. I'm so Glad the police are taking this seriously. Did they tell you what to expect at court? Will the witnesses be there? Remember she is the one who threatened you. You didn't do anything wrong. Stay strong, my Friend.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Thank you. They just told me to turn up at 8am on Monday. But I have got in touch with another local lawyer, just to give me some advice about what is likely to happen. I don't know if I will have to testify or anything. They have also called the security guard witness to be at court at 8. He was kind enough to call and let me know.

I am just getting so much disapproval from so many people. As if I am the problem here. It is like exposure all over again. But I guess there is no way OW will want to come anywhere near my family after this (well, a normal, right thinking person would keep as far away as possible), so I will focus on the positive.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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My husband flew back from his conference yesterday and broke into the house by climbing over the 8 ft high gate. He then strode into the house with a smirk. I think he thinks Plan B is a game.

He spent a couple of hours with the kids, which made them really happy because they have been praying every day for him to come home. He is a great father.

I tried to stay in the bedroom to start with, but then I decided to just ask him whether he had decided to end his affair yet so that he could come home.

He came out with a load of fogbabble. There wasn't any affair, I have blown it out of all proportion in my mind. He has cut contact just can't demonstrate it in the way I want. He has always wanted to come home, but my requests for no travelling and leaving his job were unreasonable, etc etc. He then asked me to stop the police action against OW, added some gaslighting about how I am lowering myself by interacting with these police here and making myself look vindictive, failing to understand that showing me that he had obviously been speaking to her about it undermines his previous claims that they are not speaking.

He asked for a specific list of things I am expecting him to do in order for us to be able to move forward. I have sent him the ending an affair checklist numerous times, but I again said: 1) end your affair; 2) put in place extraordinary precautions to ensure that it is IMPOSSIBLE for you and OW to contact each other again; 3) be honest about everything that has happened (to be confirmed by polygraph); 4) financial and technical accountability. He says he is doing all these things. I said but you have not actually DONE anything. Saying you are doing it is not the same as actually doing it. He then went into these blah blah blahs about how can I demonstrate I am doing things if you don't even let me call or email you, etc etc.

He then tried to manufacture a moral high ground for himself by saying he desperately wants to sort out our problems by getting a third party to mediate between us, and then telling me I am the problem because I am refusing to talk to the lawyer. "She is a woman. She can advise us. What problems cannot be solved by talking?". He then did a bit of stomping around saying I am the one who doesn't want our marriage to work. I am just building a case against him so that I can leave. (I always find it funny when he says this: he got another woman pregnant and has been cheating on me for 10 years. Why would i need to "build a case" against him in order to justify leaving?!) I said I will not talk to anyone while his affair is still ongoing. Doing all the things on the list above - and more - is a prerequisite for any kind of discussion about a future for us, if there is one.

He was trying his best to get me to commit to allowing him back in the house when he returns from his final work trip next week. I refused to commit to anything without a demonstration that he is actually serious about saving our marriage. He does not seem at all serious at the moment. Or at least he still thinks that he can manipulate his way out of the situation without having to actually implement any real change at all.

He kept on saying that when he comes back from travelling he will come and sit in the house until he is due to leave the country for his new job at the end of April. He says he will give me his phones, so that I see absolutely all communication. He will give me all his passwords to everything, etc. And he will submit to the polygraph. But the problem is, my eyes are open now. He is very good at agreeing to do things at some indeterminate point in the future because he is totally confident that he will be able to manipulate his way out of ACTUALLY doing the thing when push comes to shove. He used to always tell me "you can look at my phones whenever you want" and made sure I knew his passwords to give me a sense of security. However, at the point when a suspicious message would arrive, and I would make the request to see it, he would be holding the phone above his head with one hand (he is taller and much stronger than me) rapidly deleting stuff with one hand while holding me off with the other, all the while saying "you can have the phone, I am giving it to you, I am just waiting for you to calm down".

The only positive aspect of the whole incident was that he left at 7pm without a fight and went to stay at his friend's house. He is leaving for another week-long work trip today, so at least he will not be in court this morning.

I am really starting to see how manipulative and controlling my husband is - and how totally confident he is that he will win any battle of wills. Oh well, on with Plan B.

I just have one question about fogbabble. Can the fog be a sign of wanting to protect his SSL just as much as it is a sign of continued addition to the OW? I get the feeling that there is no great love here (apart from his evident love for himself) but that his manipulation and attempts at control are more about guarding his potential for having affairs whenever he wants rather than protecting this specific one. He is leaving the country for good in a month and a half. And I really think he will not look back after that point. But wants to make sure that in the new country he has the same freedom he has always enjoyed.



BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Is it actually possible to ensure no contact with smartphones, apps, and all manner of ways to contact people through the internet?! Just saw a notice on whatsapp saying that now you can send messages that will automatically delete themselves after 24 hours - and felt really depressed. The world we live in today seems to be actively promoting SSLs for everyone.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Change the locks so he can't get in the house.

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Thanks Brits Brat. I did change the locks already. It was 4pm in the afternoon and we live in a house that has a compound - so it is surrounded by a wall with a large motorised gate. He managed to scale the 8ft gate, which has spikes on top of it, to get into the compound. The kids were playing outside and our doors were open since it was the afternoon. That is how he managed to walk right into the house. I will ask the landlord to put additional barbed wire on top of the gate.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
He is a great father.
A great father doesn't have multiple affairs. A great father doesn't hurt the mother of his children.

He is a lousy father.

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Thank you Goody2Shoes. It is good to have things put in perspective. You are right.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
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I spent 2 hours at the police station this morning. It turns out my new lawyer (a friend of a friend) is the former Director of Public Prosecutions so she helped enormously. The OW turned up without any legal counsel and with a stinky attitude. My lawyer had told the investigating officer in advance that we did not wish for her to have a criminal record, so she received a formal warning to stay away from our family - although if there is even the hint of anything happening again she will be in court straight away. The police implied that she has been in trouble before (One of them said "what has she done NOW?"). I am so angry at my WH for bringing this person into our lives.

I was worried my husband would mysteriously appear. But he didn't. Phew.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
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It has just been confirmed to me that my husband and OW are still obviously in daily contact. WH called our nanny to ask who was the lady I was with this morning (my lawyer). I know he was not around to see me himself, so the only person that could have told him that I was with a lady was OW, who saw me at the police station.

Was I naive to think that the nuclear exposure, employment scrutiny, legal action against OW and throwing WH out would have ended the affair? Maybe the fact that he has been travelling for the past 3 weeks has insulated him from the effects of not living at home. Maybe the legal action against OW has given them a reason to keep talking. Or maybe because they know he is leaving the country for good in 6 weeks anyway, they see no reason to stop now.

I just don't know what to think now. If he is moving to another country at the end of April, and I am planning to take the kids to another (different) country in June, what hope could there ever be that we would manage to sort this out? Even if the affair dies a natural death in the few months after he moves, he will probably just start a new one in his new location. I'm starting to think there is no solution at all.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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