Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 9 of 49 1 2 7 8 9 10 11 48 49
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,348
Likes: 3
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,348
Likes: 3
He has lived a SSL for so Long he is obviously still thinking he can gaslight you. You need to get into a dark Plan B to protect yourself. Can you make sure the doors are locked at all times?

And yes it's obvious he is still in contact with the OW. He hasn't ended his affair. And I'm sorry to say he is probably already looking for the next OW. He is a serial Cheater with a traveling job and has many, many opportunities for a SSL.

Protect yourself.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
Thank you BrainHurts. Our landlord is installing more barbed wire on top of the gate tomorrow morning. And yes we will try to keep the doors locked from now on.

It is really depressing to go through this sudden realisation that I am married to such a deceitful and selfish person. I have loved him so much for so long. But it is better to have my eyes open than be blind.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 174
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 174
What about getting a guard goose? Better than a dog.

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 783
Likes: 4
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 783
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by chalkncheese
It has just been confirmed to me that my husband and OW are still obviously in daily contact. WH called our nanny to ask who was the lady I was with this morning (my lawyer). I know he was not around to see me himself, so the only person that could have told him that I was with a lady was OW, who saw me at the police station.
Don't share personal or legal info with your nanny. Instruct her not to answer those questions. If you don't give her this info, she can tell him she doesn't know.
Quote
Was I naive to think that the nuclear exposure, employment scrutiny, legal action against OW and throwing WH out would have ended the affair? Maybe the fact that he has been travelling for the past 3 weeks has insulated him from the effects of not living at home. Maybe the legal action against OW has given them a reason to keep talking. Or maybe because they know he is leaving the country for good in 6 weeks anyway, they see no reason to stop now.
Exposure speeds up what would happen anyway. If the affair would die, it now dies sooner because of the turmoil. If he repents and wants to recover the marriage, you will have suffered less then if you didn't expose. You won't be the wreck you would be if this abuse would have gone on for longer.
Now work on your personal recovery. If at any moment he truly repents, you will still have the strength you need for recovery of your marriage. If he doesn't repent, you will be better of without him.
Quote
I just don't know what to think now. If he is moving to another country at the end of April, and I am planning to take the kids to another (different) country in June, what hope could there ever be that we would manage to sort this out? Even if the affair dies a natural death in the few months after he moves, he will probably just start a new one in his new location. I'm starting to think there is no solution at all.
Could you be married to a man who has affairs? If he refuses exclusivity in your marriage, you don't stand a chance anyway.

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
Thank you Goody2Shoes. I really appreciate how you get me to put things in perspective. You are right. I have done everything I could reasonably have done and will just focus on myself and the kids.

I have an appointment with an international marriage/divorce lawyer on Friday and was thinking of asking him to draft a formal separation letter that specifies how much money my husband should be sending to me for maintenance of four children and spousal support. However, I am wondering about the enforcement of financial agreements across borders - and I was thinking that it might be sensible to inform his employer of his financial obligation, since he works for an international organisation and they sometimes have rules about staff being in good financial standing with no judgements against them. Do any of the lawyers here, perhaps Brits Brat, have any advice in that respect?

Last edited by chalkncheese; 03/14/17 06:25 AM. Reason: Typo

BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 606
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 606
Without knowing the countries or the employer involved I couldn't give you any suggestions. Also, since I'm not licensed in those countries, I certainly wouldn't be authorized to provide legal advice.

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
Thank you for the reply BritsBrat. I will see what the lawyer has to say.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
Just an update since I haven't posted in a few days. On Friday last week, I travelled to see a lawyer in the neighbouring country where I plan to move with the kids at the end of their school year in June. He was very helpful in laying out my options and rights, despite the international dimensions of our problems.

There is no such thing as a formal separation here, but there is the possibility of applying for a maintenance order if WH starts to become financially unreliable.

The lawyer also suggested that if I am focused on reconciliation he could write me a letter laying out the extremely high costs of all aspects of an international divorce, which I could then share with WH if he starts talking about D (but not before). I am glad to have the facts now, but not sure whether it is advisable/desirable/strategic to attempt to scare WH away from divorce? Any advice appreciated.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
WH travelled to his home country, where his new job is also based, on Monday last week to do some recruitment of new staff. I took the opportunity to do some additional exposure with his extended family in that country because I knew he would be meeting them. Although afterwards I hit a real low point because I feel that I have got to the end of the active interventions I can make. It is now just a question of focusing on Plan B, the kids and self-care - but I am trying to do that while sitting in a country and town where i am surrounded by terrible memories and triggers everywhere. Can't wait until June when I can move the kids away from this place and we can start work on a new life for all of us. It is going to be a tough few months.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
I've been reading a lot of old threads to give me strength for my Plan B and I noticed that IndieGirl was advised to send a couple of love notes/memories of good times to her WH during plan B. Is that something that the forum still advises?

Since I didn't really do a plan A (well, one weekend), because WH refused to finish his affair after exposure and was quite aggressive, I wonder whether it might help remind him of what we have built together.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,197
U
Member
Offline
Member
U
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,197
Originally Posted by chalkncheese
I've been reading a lot of old threads to give me strength for my Plan B and I noticed that IndieGirl was advised to send a couple of love notes/memories of good times to her WH during plan B. Is that something that the forum still advises?

Since I didn't really do a plan A (well, one weekend), because WH refused to finish his affair after exposure and was quite aggressive, I wonder whether it might help remind him of what we have built together.

I would not advise that in your situation. Primarily because your WH is a serial cheater who has probably been cheating for the entire length of your marriage. He has an entire SSL on the side and does not seem to be at all interested in ending it any time soon. His long term serial cheating is a far greater hurdle to overcome, and as it stands right now, I do not have much hope for your marriage. I know you do not want to divorce, and that is your choice, but I do not see a couple love notes or Plan B doing anything to get your WH to change his lifestyle.

In Indie's case, her husband was not a serial cheater. He had a garden variety affair with a mutual friend.

Even with that in mind, I do not remember Indie being advised this and have not seen any other person in Plan B advised to break their no contact. The advise in Plan B is to have NO contact to protect yourself, and if you are sending notes to the wayward this completely contradicts this.

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
Thanks a lot Unwritten. Yeah, I am also not exactly hopeful....I guess it just takes some time to adjust to thinking that we probably won't be together in the future.



BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,197
U
Member
Offline
Member
U
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,197
Originally Posted by chalkncheese
Thanks a lot Unwritten. Yeah, I am also not exactly hopeful....I guess it just takes some time to adjust to thinking that we probably won't be together in the future.

Of course it does! You have done so well in the short time you've been here. Just continue to protect yourself in a tight Plan B. You will feel better once you have no more contact with WH and are not hearing about his every move.

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
Thank you. I already do feel a lot better - NC is very therapeutic! And I can really see how important it is for the kids. We have our calm normal family routines and that helps us all deal with the huge changes.

I am not really hearing from him - it's just we are in a bit of limbo since he has been travelling for three weeks on three separate trips (pretty much since the start of plan B) and is due to arrive back tomorrow, so I am apprehensive about what might happen and how things will change with him in the country rather than occupied elsewhere. Last week he had a day between coming back and leaving again, and used that time to break into the house pretending everything was normal.

He called our nanny a couple of days ago asking to speak to the kids just before dinner, but I asked her to tell him no. I don't mind him seeing them when he is in the country but only outside the house where he can't attempt to disrupt the calm we have worked hard to establish without him. I feel that even phone calls from him will have a destabilising effect on our home so I prefer if he just keeps away. I guess when he moves to his new job in his home country we will have to work out a regular skype call time for the kid's sake. But for now, I think it is OK to refuse impromptu calls. He's the one that refused to cancel his trips when I asked, after all.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 783
Likes: 4
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 783
Likes: 4
As long as your nanny tells you he calls, your plan B isn't watertight.

Can you give her instructions not to tell you if he calls? And give her clear instructions to be a firewall and not give him any info that isn't relevant.

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 783
Likes: 4
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 783
Likes: 4
I am no expert on international divorce. I do know something about international marriages, but not in your country. Get educated on custody rights in your situation. It might be important to file for divorce in the "right" country. Since you have options, understand what the pro's and cons are when you file for divorce in every possible country.

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,148
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,148
Yes you should seek out a lawyer that is specialized in international fivorce. Since you and your husband are from the same country, it depends on where you married an sometimes on where you live and how long you have lived there to even know which country's divorce laws apply to your marriage. It may have been set in the marriage contract.
You cannot be sure that a regular local lawyer knows that. In some cases (mine) if I start living in another country, after half a year, laws of the country of residence would apply.
You have to consult with an international lawyer and not waste time with incompetent lawyers who tell you how to save your marriage according to their cultural beliefs.


me, DH
all the children
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
Originally Posted by goody2shoes
As long as your nanny tells you he calls, your plan B isn't watertight.

Can you give her instructions not to tell you if he calls? And give her clear instructions to be a firewall and not give him any info that isn't relevant.

Thank you Goody2Shoes. I hadn't thought of that actually. I will tell her not to tell me from now on - especially now that we have worked out the main logistics of when and how visits with the kids will be arranged.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
Thank you Goody2Shoes and Happy Heart. The lawyer I saw on Friday is an international divorce lawyer and he was extremely helpful. He was even able to advise on the enforcement of financial obligations across borders. My H and I are from different countries (from each other), we live in a third, and we will soon be moving in June - me to the neighbouring country and he to his home country. He advised that it is best to wait until I am resident in the neighbouring country before doing anything formal because the law there is extremely protective of women and children and there are numerous avenues available for ensuring compliance with financial obligations, even across borders. So while I am quite a weak position where I am currently, I am hopeful that the situation will be a lot better come June.



BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,348
Likes: 3
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,348
Likes: 3
Is there anyway you could move to your neighbouring country sooner than June?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Page 9 of 49 1 2 7 8 9 10 11 48 49

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 38 guests, and 47 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Convict20, GTNY, Avianna, BootsJeans, B24gordon
71,735 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,549
Posts2,322,799
Members71,736
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5