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I'm desperate for any help or advice. Should I setup an appointment to speak with Steve Harley?

Here's where we are. We've been through 2 years of coaching, as far as I know I have mostly eliminated love busters, am doing my best to get to 0 and stay there. It's the nuances that I keep messing up on. According to her, I have eliminated my anger problem. We have been getting about 3 to 6 hours of UA time (I know it's not enough). Sometimes I think we're making progress and getting closer to intimacy but then out of the blue she unloads by telling me how bad things are. Like this evening we were on our date and were discussing a troubled teenager that she's been helping. I expressed concern about the extra effort on her part asking her if she was feeling ok. She then told me that working with the troubled teenager doesn't drain her energy but being with me does. So I'm at my wits end. I asked her what I'm doing that's draining her but she didn't want to talk about it.

I can't help but think there's something that I'm missing, something that I don't understand that is keeping me from becoming a great husband to her. I want desperately to become the man of her dreams but it seems like the harder I try to meet her needs the farther we get from the goal. I wish someone could just beat me over the head if need be to get the essential information into my heart. What am I doing wrong?

I'm sorry if this post is not very lucid, I'm feeling a little desperate right now.

After I wrote the above, we did have a conversation about what she feels is draining her. The main reason according to her is that she feels under constant pressure to meet my needs.

I don't know what to say to that. Is this a normal part of recovery? Do I just keep doing my best to follow the program and hope things will improve with more time?

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Originally Posted by Pearlseeker
After I wrote the above, we did have a conversation about what she feels is draining her. The main reason according to her is that she feels under constant pressure to meet my needs.

I don't know what to say to that. Is this a normal part of recovery? Do I just keep doing my best to follow the program and hope things will improve with more time?


Your wife would not feel under pressure to meet your needs if she was in love with you. Meeting your needs would be what she would want to do most in the world.

How to get her to fall back in love with you? 20 hours a week of UA time when you focus on meeting her needs. This is the missing piece.


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Pearlseeker,

If she says she feels drained being with you, that is a sign that you are still doing some things that she feels are demanding, disrespectful, or angry, even if she doesn't call it that. A clue is that she says she feels "pressured." That means she feels like there are consequences if she doesn't meet your needs.

To win a wife back after being a demanding, disrespectful, and angry husband, you really have to go the extra mile to be pleasant and cheerful even when she chooses not to meet your needs. I know that's an extremely tall order, but it does work. She is going to test to see what happens when she does and does not meet your needs.

Also, as noted, spend more enjoyable time with her. Slant that time toward her enjoyment. Talk, talk, talk, talk to her. Don't try to advise her on anything in life unless she asks for your advice, but support her in her goals.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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How to get her to fall back in love with you? 20 hours a week of UA time when you focus on meeting her needs. This is the missing piece.

I would love to have 20 hours per week but so far she has not been willing to do that. She has time for her friends, our children, etc but she has not been willing to have more UA time. As to the meeting of her needs, I'm doing a good job of meeting her needs as best I know. Here again, very rarely is she even willing to discuss her needs. I would love to meet them! When she does express needs its usually doing some project around the house which I gladly do.

Sounds like I have only excuses for not doing the program fully but I don't know how to do it by myself.

Some good news. This morning I had a brief conversation with her. She said if I'm consistent in expressing my love for her and attraction to her she may be more enthusiastic about our marriage. So I do have something that I can work on.

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Originally Posted by Pearlseeker
She said if I'm consistent in expressing my love for her and attraction to her she may be more enthusiastic about our marriage. So I do have something that I can work on.

That is affection and admiration right there, and she almost certainly needs good conversation in order to be in love with you.

Read, review, and practice Dr. Harley's friends and enemies of good conversation every day. It's crucial.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Pearlseeker
She has time for her friends, our children

Look! One great way to make moderately large love bank deposits for a withdrawn wife is Family Commitment. Many times Prisca wouldn't spend any time alone with me but was willing to spend time with me and the children, and she found herself feeling good watching me give them my attention.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2897868 04/26/17 12:24 PM
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Another idea is to observe what she is interested in doing/learning and use that as a hook. For example, if she has a sport or a hobby then find UA ways to extend it. Do some research, maybe find an amazing event connected to it that she would never have found and casually suggest doing it together. Then you will be her hero too.

Personally I enjoy repairing things. When my DH helps me, it makes massive love bank deposits for both of us. Last week we repaired a tree!


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Great ideas, thank you so much! Repairing things is something she enjoys but we just haven't managed to do much of it together.

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And take her out on a date! Be her escape from the stresses of life.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2898287 05/02/17 09:36 PM
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Yesterday in an effort to understand what I'm doing that bothers her I sent her this email:

Quote
How would you feel about giving me love busters work sheets every day or every week?

I'm waiting to hear back from her. Is my wording ok? After I sent it I thought perhaps I could have said something like this:

""I'm very motivated to completely eliminate all love busters. How would you feel about helping me do that by filling out love busters worksheets throughout the week and then giving them to me?""

Would that have been better?

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On Friday night we had a discussion about another couples problems which led to me having a flashback of painful memories from the past few years. The painful part for me was mostly due to this:

Whenever I would complain about her behavior that was very hurtful to me, she would consistently either deny having done the actions I was complaining about or insist it wasn't a love buster.

Also, she would communicate things about me to the counselor that were false. In that state of being told by my wife that all of our problems were my fault, her consistently denying her own actions that were hurting me and not having anyone to talk to, it would often be overwhelming. I would feel hopeless of ever being able to achieve a happy marriage.
------------------------------

Back to the present, you say the ball is in my court, how is that exactly? I'm at a loss as to how I'm hurting her. I'm eager to eliminate my behavior that bothers her.

She did write one thing on a sheet of paper, I thanked her letting me know and that thing will not happen again. I don't know what else I'm doing that is love busting her? Seriously, there is virtually nothing coming from her as to how I'm hurting her. I have asked many times for consistency in giving me written or verbal feedback as to what I'm doing to hurt her but I'm getting virtually nothing. When I conclude from the lack of complaints that I must be doing ok she gets angry with me and insists that she is telling me. Where is it? What did I do today? Yesterday? The day before?

As to what happened on Friday night, Dr Harley advised me that if I'm in a state of mind wherein I don't feel able to be pleasant I should not be present with her. On Friday night I had a terrible heavy feeling, an overwhelmed feeling of hopelessness. It has happened before. She has told me that she doesn't want to try to help me get out of such a state. So in order to follow Dr Harley's advice and to respect her wish not to help me, I said that I'd like to have solitude to think and pray. What should I have done instead?

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What you need to do, pronto, is to get onto anti-depressants. You can't expect your wife to put up with moody, sorrowful, "I need to be alone" behaviour like that.


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Tried antidepressants last year and had a horrible reaction to them. Lost several days of work because of fever, nausea, etc. The subsequent tests done by my doctor confirmed that it was a reaction to the antidepressants. The specific drug I used was the generic version of Wellbutrin.

I'm very nervous about trying another kind of drug. Has anyone experienced bad reactions to one kind of drug but then had good success with another kind?

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Originally Posted by Pearlseeker
Tried antidepressants last year and had a horrible reaction to them. Lost several days of work because of fever, nausea, etc. The subsequent tests done by my doctor confirmed that it was a reaction to the antidepressants. The specific drug I used was the generic version of Wellbutrin.

I'm very nervous about trying another kind of drug. Has anyone experienced bad reactions to one kind of drug but then had good success with another kind?
What does your doctor recommend? Does he have another suggestion?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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As understand it, there is an element of trial and error in anti-depressant use.

However, I don't want my post to lead to a discussion of the trials and tribulations of specific drugs. My point is that you CANNOT inflict this behaviour on your wife. You cannot expect her to put up with it, or to just wait until you are over it. You will have to find a way of managing your behaviour so that she is not on the the receiving end of your moods.

We've all had bad experiences somewhere in our lives, but nobody can expect to have a good marriage with an engaged spouse if they disengage from that spouse and make them miserable while they indulge their triggers and flashbacks.


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Originally Posted by Pearlseeker
Whenever I would complain about her behavior that was very hurtful to me, she would consistently either deny having done the actions I was complaining about or insist it wasn't a love buster.

Also, she would communicate things about me to the counselor that were false. In that state of being told by my wife that all of our problems were my fault, her consistently denying her own actions that were hurting me and not having anyone to talk to, it would often be overwhelming. I would feel hopeless of ever being able to achieve a happy marriage.
You need to think twice about the wisdom of calling your wife a liar - for that is what you've just done.

Is there something wrong with your wife, that she tells bald-faced lies about you? If you are married to a fantasist, who blatantly lies when it is clear that what she says never took place, then I would ask you why you are still married to such a person. However, I suspect that she neither a liar or a fantasist.

Have you heard of perspective? Could it be that your wife's perspective on an event is different from yours? And have you heard about disrespectful judgements? Did your coach ever tell you that it is disrespectful of you to tell your wife (or to think) that she is saying things that are false?

You might have made a lot more progress in your marriage if you had listened to your wife's complaints and acted to stop the behaviour that she complained of, rather than thinking that she was telling the counsellor things that were false. (And if you were having counselling sessions in the same room, where you could hear what she said about you, no wonder you felt resentful about each other).


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Originally Posted by Pearlseeker
As to what happened on Friday night, Dr Harley advised me that if I'm in a state of mind wherein I don't feel able to be pleasant I should not be present with her. On Friday night I had a terrible heavy feeling, an overwhelmed feeling of hopelessness. It has happened before. She has told me that she doesn't want to try to help me get out of such a state. So in order to follow Dr Harley's advice and to respect her wish not to help me, I said that I'd like to have solitude to think and pray. What should I have done instead?
What you should have done instead was to knock it off.

You cannot expect to have a loving wife and a good marriage when you treat your wife like this. What do you think will be the result of inflicting your sour moods on her? And seeking solitude to think and pray (about the past - something that is gone and that cannot be changed) is inflicting your mood on her every bit as much as if you'd sat in the same room and mourned. How was she supposed to feel after you'd finished your bout of self-indulgence?

Think twice before you do that again, and next time, decide not to do it. If you really are at the mercy of your moods, and you cannot control your behaviour and be decent to your wife, see your doctor as a matter of urgency, and explain that you need help. Otherwise, train yourself to change your focus from past hurts, and deal with the present. Relaxation techniques - which only take a few minutes to practice - will help with calming down and refocusing in times of distress.


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Thank you for your advice. I will figure out a way to avoid such mood swings. I will try other antidepressants or whatever else the dr suggests.

She deserves better for sure!

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Pearlseeker, one thing I think you need to understand is that for a wife to be happy she needs her husband to be her emotional rock. That can be very difficult for emotional men like you and me. Apparently we as men are equipped to deal with an emotional woman, but she is not equipped to deal with that from us.

So it's crucial to practice relaxation training as Dr. Harley describes. You need to learn how to physically relax every muscle in your body, and then you need to learn how to do this while thinking about something frustrating and staying relaxed, and then you need to learn how to do this in your wife's presence, staying relaxed no matter what. Ultimately she needs you to be able to stay positive and in her presence.

If you do need to leave for awhile to calm down, then least said, soonest mended: most of what you say is going to sound like you are blaming her for your emotions. Don't do that, because it's going to be a big love bank withdrawal and sabotage your goal. Calm down, then look for a way to come back and be positive and upbeat.

Antidepressants can help while you are learning to do this, and yes it is frequently necessary for doctors to try different medications or dosages until they get the right one for you.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2898532 05/09/17 11:59 AM
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Another thing to mention, pearlseeker: whatever list you end up with of weekly love busters, whether that be a list your wife gives you or a list you construct on your own or with help from others, I suggest you keep those lists! Review them regularly so that when she is upset and feeling like you are doing the same old things, you will know what those things are, and you will not frustrate her with requests to repeat those things.

In fact I suggest you also create a written plan of things you need to filter out from what you do and say. That should be constructed after you've had time to reflect on feedback from your wife (and from here, and from coaching), and you should review it regularly to keep it fresh on your mind.

As an example, I learned I had to eliminate hyperbole from what I said to Prisca - she gave me specific examples of things she felt were disrespectful, and I eventually realized that when I made statements that were exaggerated for emphasis, she felt disrespected. So that went onto my written plan.

Also, it sounds like your wife felt she was really benefiting from the coaching. I think you should get back into it. I hate to sound like I'm just trying to sell Dr. Harley's services, but it sounds like your wife felt it was very beneficial and would feel more cared for if you kept at it.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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