Messy, the big problem I see is you don't know the Marriage Builders plan.

The plan actually does work when followed, but you are doing all sorts of other stuff, so I am worried this is not going to end well for you.

I am catching up, but the reason she wants the "separation" is so she can pursue her affair without your interference.

One of my greatest concerns with your situation is that you don't have good instincts about what is going on around you. We can read your situation and comprehend there is much going on behind the scenes to which you are not privy. People pointed this out from the beginning of your thread. Your IC has no earthly idea what is going on either.

Do you think it is smart to bring your wife here when we tell you to spy on her? When she is in an active affair and wants to separate from you? How in the world do you imagine that is a good idea?

That is not the PORH. It does not apply to resources that are designed to protect you when there has been adultery or abuse.

I'm following you guys, I see my blind optimism. It's rooted in wanting to pain to go away, so I cling to any optimism I can.

I should add that it is her IC that is advising separation, to create space to think. Also, WW didnt like the counselor who gave us SAA so we don't see that one anymore.

At this point, I'm going to tell her I don't want a separation, and work the list of EPs from SAA.

What else should I do?

When I talk to an abuser, I tell them not to be dramatic and poetic when they talk about their abuse, if they want to fix the issue and be sensitive to their victim.

If you are learning Marriage Builders, you know that any time you demand your wife do something she is not enthusiastic about, that is abusive. There shouldn't need to be some big dramatic breakthrough revelation about it - you are trying to win your wife over to this program, so you would never insist she do something she is unenthusiastic about, right? You're not broken and don't need counseling; you just simply knock it off.

Make time. You don't have time to not sit in class and learn the program, if you want to survive this.

Don't separate. And sleep in your own bed. She can sleep somewhere else if she wants.

Fire the counselor who suggested "space."

Stop making agreements with your wife. Get moved.

How very ironic that, after we warned you against your wife seeing an individual counsellor, you wrote, this, in February:

Your wife came home happy from meeting that counsellor, and continued to be happy, because the counsellor validated the thinking that justified her affair. The counsellor, told her that, having felt forced to get married at 17, your wife had never done anything for herself, and now it was "me time". That she had lived her life so far doing what was dutiful, and that now it was time to do what she really wanted to do. The counsellor validated your wife's feelings of "mid-life crisis", and that explanation is almost always a justification for behaving badly and hurting people that are close.

And in all that time she was seeing the counsellor and feeling happier, this wasn't because she was growing closer to you, but because she was continuing the affair, and feeling justified. The affair was "me time".

The counsellor did what counsellors do. We did warn you.

This will have to happen before you can recover.

I think that "space" is a cute and trendy buzzword we see from ineffective counselors, but it is nonsensical. No one needs a "space" to be able to think. If that is truly the case, she can go in the bathroom and shut the door or sit out in the garage.

Rather, we happen to know that this request for "space" always applies to waywards who want the freedom to carry on their affair.

That's what I do when I need "space to think." A thirty minute shower does wonders for the mind. The thought of having to tear up my family in order to "have space to think" is absurd; only waywards think and act that way, and it destroys lives.

My activity of choice is a walk through the park. Clear thinking, the uplift provided by a beautiful and ever-changing landscape, vitamin D for the skin, and exercise, all achieved in less than an hour. And so much more fun than breaking up the family!

After feeling pressured into marrying you, pregnant at 17, why did she go on to have three more kids?

So he was tom-catting around on his wife while she was pregnant, and even the birth of the baby didn't stop him.

I'm surprised you ever thought it would.

I hope you can see what I'm trying to get you to see; that no external considerations, such as his wife, his PREGNANT wife, or his newborn baby, and no demeanour of hers, such as enthusiasm for family life and a newfound talkativeness, or her tears and rage, anger and self-disgust, and/or a come-to-Jesus breakdown, should be read by you as evidence of anything. In the past, they did not mean that the affair had ended, and they will not necessarily mean that today or tomorrow.

The affair only stands a chance of ending when you move away, and non-contact is possible. If contact is easy, contact will happen, breakdown or no breakdown.

Please save this excellent post because it is the KEY to saving your marriage if that is possible. The fact that you thought the pregnancy of the OM's wife would ever prevent anything [and these other things] supports my point that you don't have good instincts about this and don't quite understand the risk. We can help you, but you have to start taking this more seriously.

Thanks so much for the support today.

Yes, I am on board now, I wanted to believe it wasn't happening. That is making me self analyze so much to wonder why I would avoid obvious signs of continued abuse, and yet continue to believe it wasn't happening... I also don't want to allow any feeling of progress to get my guard down.

Ok, the solution for now is a trip to the mall, WW wanted that space to think today so she went to the mall.

How is the best way to approach implementing EPs? I've just made simple requests so far. Such as, I would like you to consider...

That is a great way to hook up with her boyfriend! Might be better to make her "space" in places where she can't hook up? This is some pretty brazen enabling your part. Getting "space" is code word for HOOKING UP WIHT MY BOYFRIEND.

I am not trying to beat you up, but you have to stop being an enabler and start calling BS when it is OBVIOUS she is going to meet her BF. it's time to wake up.


Show her the damn checklist and start making plans.

You tell us you are on board now and then proceed to tell us she has just gone to the mall to "get space."


No, you are not on board. You have re-boarded the ENABLING TRAIN.