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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
Originally Posted by unwritten
I do not think he doesn't want to take responsibility because it is too painful. I think people are just wired differently and it is likely he is wired to not be able to see your perspective or feel empathy for his actions. He may truly not be able to ever see how he has hurt you or how this is his fault.

Dr Harley says that everyone will have an affair in the right circumstances, but serial cheaters fall into an entirely different category because they are actively looking for affairs all the time. People are wired differently, some are actually wired to not feel compassion or empathy. It would be interesting to see if there is a correlation between these narcissistic behaviors and serial cheaters, I would not be surprised if there is. This seems to be why Dr Harley focuses on changing behavior and not personality. You can control behavior and habits but you can't re wire someone.

Hi Unwritten, I think you are absolutely right about this. My WH doesn't (and probably won't ever) get that what he does affects me. He doesn't understand the concept of truth, and seems to think that a plausible-sounding explanation for something is just as good as the truth - it is about him being able to explain away what he has done, not about me needing to know what has actually happened in my life. In his head, my pointing out how hurt/betrayed/angry I am at his behaviour is solely for the purpose of unjustly punishing him (he considers it unjust if he doesn't agree that I have sufficient evidence to "convict" him of whatever I am accusing him of). He is so self-focused he does not consider that I am actually trying to get him to understand how I feel and why I can't accept his behaviour. He thinks my wanting to change his behaviour is all about stopping him living a life he believes all men live - not that I need fidelity and emotional security in order to be happy and fulfilled in life and marriage.

I don't know if my WH is typical of serial cheaters, I suspect he might be on the extreme side, but I think there are only a very strict set of circumstances under which WH would not be having an affair. It is like trying to keep water in a sieve. His normal is to be with multiple women and to have many different lives depending on who he is interacting with. I believe it was his travelling between countries for studying and then for work that enabled him to grow into this type of person. He never had to finish a relationship with anyone because he always knew he would be leaving to move somewhere else, which meant when we started dating I had to contend with a worldwide network of exes who all believed they would still be together with him had he not moved. The extent of this network only became clear to me years later. He liked keeping all these "options" open by sending them explicit messages reminiscing about past encounters every so often and looking them up whenever he was in their part of the world. He stopped doing that so much when I made him give me his facebook password in 2012, but whatsapping replaced facebooking from around 2015 onwards.

You don't need to know more about a wayward than to know that:
~they are selfish
~they are entitled
~they are always the victim
~they don't care about the pain they cause others
~they blame shift

I am friends with folks who are divorced from serial cheaters, one time cheaters and they all seem to consistently have these qualities. My own ex H can sometimes show a glimmer of being kind but for the most part he is what I listed above. The wayward mindset becomes entrenched and permanent for most after a certain period of time.

Don't analyze it or you will drive yourself crazy. You need to focus on yourself now and start moving away from thoughts like this.



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I agree with SusieQ, chalkncheese. Please try to work on your thoughts of your WH to be less and less to solely be yourself and your children. How much longer until you leave?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by SusieQ
You don't need to know more about a wayward than to know that:
~they are selfish
~they are entitled
~they are always the victim
~they don't care about the pain they cause others
~they blame shift

I am friends with folks who are divorced from serial cheaters, one time cheaters and they all seem to consistently have these qualities. My own ex H can sometimes show a glimmer of being kind but for the most part he is what I listed above. The wayward mindset becomes entrenched and permanent for most after a certain period of time.

Don't analyze it or you will drive yourself crazy. You need to focus on yourself now and start moving away from thoughts like this.

Thanks SusieQ. Yes, I think I have got a little too obsessed with all the drama and stress of the past few weeks. You're right it isn't healthy and it definitely stops me managing the rest of my life properly. I have really felt dragged down by all the stress. Now that he has definitely gone, and I have signed a contract for a new house in the neighbouring country, I will make a concerted effort to think only nice thoughts about the great like the kids and I will have in a couple of weeks' time. The house contract runs from June 19, so it is not long at all now. Just the nightmare of packing and sorting stuff out before we leave.....


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
I agree with SusieQ, chalkncheese. Please try to work on your thoughts of your WH to be less and less to solely be yourself and your children. How much longer until you leave?

Thanks BrainHurts. It's funny how easy it is to drift off the plan. I'm really so grateful for all of your advice keeping me on track.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by SusieQ
I say this with all kindness, I don't think this is a healthy Plan B approach for you.

Yes, you are going to be holding your WH's feet to the fire in the D process and you are focused on safety and Plan D life for you and your children and how your WH is going to fit into that picture...but for the most part, you need to be moving towards a place of peace and lessening these thoughts about your WH, how to change his behavior, what drives it, etc. That's not what Plan B is about.

I think that is a probably moreso a challenge for any BS who is going through simultaneous Plan B and Plan D but try to redirect your thoughts when they start trending this way. Don't allow yourself to get bogged down in thoughts about your WH, that won't help you get to where you need to be.

Yes, I see what you mean. I guess he has succeeded in maintaining control over me by the very fact that I have been devoting all my energy to fighting him! It will be a lot easier to not focus on him when we have moved and we are establishing our new life that has nothing to do with him. Just 2.5 weeks now.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Waking up today knowing WH has left the country is such a HUGE relief. Everything seems different, better, lighter. So now to refocus on Plan B and no contact!!


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Good job. So will he stay out of the country until you leave in 2.5 weeks?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Good job. So will he stay out of the country until you leave in 2.5 weeks?

I hope so!!!!!!!!!!


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Chalk,

I have read some of your story here, and your courage and resolve in your situation is amazing. It's good that you have much support here in view of the fact that your relatives are far away. You have to be exhausted - caring for your kids, protecting all of you from him, and planning your relocation. Seems like the most important issue now is your move to the neighboring country without your H being able to track. I am assuming that you are both expatriates living in a foreign county - can you make contact with your country's consulate in the nation you are moving to, explain your situation and ask for protection, or at least go on record that your H is a threat to you, and obtain references in that county for legal advice - i.e. maintaining the current or establishing a new RO, your rights to deny your H access to your kids, securing your financial assets, etc.

On the other hand, try to lighten up as much as you can regarding the whereabouts of your H and what he might be scheming. I understand this is traumatic for you, but 'out of sight - out of mind' regarding your H, and if you have reasonable personal and legal protection from him in the country you're moving to - well then, focus more on your new life.

Will say some prayers for you and your family..

Tom










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Originally Posted by Tom2010
Chalk,

I have read some of your story here, and your courage and resolve in your situation is amazing. It's good that you have much support here in view of the fact that your relatives are far away. You have to be exhausted - caring for your kids, protecting all of you from him, and planning your relocation. Seems like the most important issue now is your move to the neighboring country without your H being able to track. I am assuming that you are both expatriates living in a foreign county - can you make contact with your country's consulate in the nation you are moving to, explain your situation and ask for protection, or at least go on record that your H is a threat to you, and obtain references in that county for legal advice - i.e. maintaining the current or establishing a new RO, your rights to deny your H access to your kids, securing your financial assets, etc.

On the other hand, try to lighten up as much as you can regarding the whereabouts of your H and what he might be scheming. I understand this is traumatic for you, but 'out of sight - out of mind' regarding your H, and if you have reasonable personal and legal protection from him in the country you're moving to - well then, focus more on your new life.

Will say some prayers for you and your family..

Tom

Thanks Tom. Yes, I have already investigated transferring the restraining order to the neighbouring country. Apparently all I need to do is take along the current RO and founding affidavit to a police station and fill in an application form. Domestic violence is a huge problem in this region so they are used to doing this type of thing. I can even specify on the application form that my new address is not disclosed to WH, which is great. However, I do have to wait until we are ordinarily resident in order to make the application.

It is so much easier to put him out of my mind after signing the contract on the house and knowing that he has left this country. He is calling the kids on Skype every evening at 7:30pm, but as long as I keep away from the computer during those times, it doesn't bother me too much. And I am enjoying planning how to decorate and arrange furniture in the new place after so many years of having to negotiate constant anxiety and stress in my home. I know the move will give me a completely new, positive perspective - and I will just forget about whatever WH might be doing as long as I can get the maintenance order sorted out so that the kids' school fees are covered.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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I am starting to uncover how much money WH has been throwing around. He has been earning tens of thousands of dollars a year more than he told me. We had budgeted for paying for 25% of the kids' school fees at an American International School (not cheap for 3 kids) and I had been giving him money for that - but his company covered the entire cost (rather than the 75% he told me they covered). I have no idea how he has burned through 10 000 USD a month when we live in a REALLY cheap country. I have all the family savings in my name and he is now trying to get me to give him money to rent a flat in his new location because he says he is broke. He has been living a totally secret life of hedonism and excess while I have been working like crazy, building the family, my career, and our financial security for the future. This is almost worse than the cheating (but not quite). Thank goodness for my job and income. My heart really goes out to SAHMs with cheating husbands everywhere.

Last edited by chalkncheese; 06/05/17 10:00 PM.

BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
I have all the family savings in my name and he is now trying to get me to give him money to rent a flat in his new location because he says he is broke.


Important to just ignore everything that comes out of a wayward's pie hole.


3 adult children
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Originally Posted by living_well
Originally Posted by chalkncheese
I have all the family savings in my name and he is now trying to get me to give him money to rent a flat in his new location because he says he is broke.


Important to just ignore everything that comes out of a wayward's pie hole.

Yep! And there is NO WAY he is getting his hands on any of the family savings!


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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So sorry to hear of the more damage WH has done to you and your children.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Chalk,

You seem like such a good person, and I'm happy to hear that you have the finances and security for you and your kids under control. Your discovery of your H's Concealing his financial situation is upsetting to you I'm sure. If it really came down to it where you are thru with him, you could notify his company about this deceit. I feel tho that this is information about his character that will bolster your resolve to be very on guard about what he says and his motives. I'm sure this is painful to learn about someone you loved and trusted. Your H seems to be desparately lashing out at you.

In the meantime, before your pending relocation, what are you and your kids able to do for just plain fun and to take your mind off all of this? Do you watch movies, have interesting in-house meals, take short trips for shopping or just walks (since you have home security), do fun educational things with your kids? I assume you're from the U.S from a few of your statements - can you arrange for any of your family members to visit you in your new location, or even visit them here?

You're doing great, and again, my prayers for you for strength and protection.

Tom














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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
So sorry to hear of the more damage WH has done to you and your children.

Thanks BrainHurts. It doesn't surprise me anymore. He is a liar so of course he has lied about everything, not just cheating.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by Tom2010
Chalk,

You seem like such a good person, and I'm happy to hear that you have the finances and security for you and your kids under control. Your discovery of your H's Concealing his financial situation is upsetting to you I'm sure. If it really came down to it where you are thru with him, you could notify his company about this deceit. I feel tho that this is information about his character that will bolster your resolve to be very on guard about what he says and his motives. I'm sure this is painful to learn about someone you loved and trusted. Your H seems to be desparately lashing out at you.

In the meantime, before your pending relocation, what are you and your kids able to do for just plain fun and to take your mind off all of this? Do you watch movies, have interesting in-house meals, take short trips for shopping or just walks (since you have home security), do fun educational things with your kids? I assume you're from the U.S from a few of your statements - can you arrange for any of your family members to visit you in your new location, or even visit them here?

You're doing great, and again, my prayers for you for strength and protection.

Tom

Thanks for your kind words Tom. I'm from the UK rather than the US, although WH works for an American organisation. It is a bit of a struggle to organise fun things with four kids in a developing country, to be honest! We go hiking with a group on Sundays, but the rest of the time i am just trying to get through the day making sure they are all clean, fed, and get to school and back. Sleep is the thing I want most! But the baby doesn't really help with that. It is only my Mum who travels to see us, but she's not actually very much help during emotional crises, so it is easier for me to cope without her here. But one benefit of the trauma I have been going through is that I have made a really great new friend with a neighbour of mine who is also a top lawyer. She was also going through a hard time when I was introduced to her in February and we have helped each other so much during the past few months. She has been my advisor and translator, guiding me through all the court and police issues, and I have tried to help her get back on her feet and apply for jobs (she's got an interview next week).


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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WH has filed another claim against me for "unlawful separation". He has suddenly decided that me kicking him out in February was an illegal act. Despite the fact that he has spent the last two months enjoying himself and not objecting to his new found freedom from responsibility, and ignoring the fact that he is at least 30kgs heavier than me and that it would have been impossible for me to actually kick him out if he had not agreed to go.

It seems that now he has moved to another country, he is suddenly realising his wife has managed to get away from him - and he doesn't like it one bit. But rather than acting like a normal person and apologising and trying to repair the relationship, he thinks the way to get back into my life is to get a court to order me to let him back in the house (even though he lives and works abroad and the kids and I are leaving this jurisdiction in 2 weeks). Crazier and crazier.

It seems as though the access case was filed solely for the purpose of providing supporting documentation for this claim. As if by suing me for access which he has always had, he thought that it would create the impression that he had been fighting to see his children and I had been denying him. But thanks to my documentation (please all BSs you must document everything!!!) there is masses of evidence to prove he always had access. He really does have a bizarre relationship with the concept of "truth".

Last edited by chalkncheese; 06/07/17 11:11 PM.

BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Today WH is suddenly all sweetness and light, sending emails signed "with love".....and by coincidence he seems to be in a panic (as evidenced by URGENT emails to our parenting plan mediator) about the prospect of having to pay fees for the American International School rotflmao

His playboy lifestyle is going to be difficult to maintain when 75% of his income is coming to me and the kids dance2

Last edited by chalkncheese; 06/08/17 08:59 AM.

BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Love letter/email from WH today.

[STARTS]
African city, June 9, 2007.


Ten years ago I was in African City. Today was the birthday of a journalist that I had just taken on a mission in North Eastern African Country, where an Ebola epidemic just broke out recently. She was British. It was interesting to see in this woman the puzzlement she had for simple things like how do pineapple grow or how to wash her hair in the absence of shower and bathtub.
I took her out that night and I did not know then that it will be the beginning of a 10 years adventure. 10 years of great and worse especially on my part. She has always been there for me, always been supportive and most problem I had were in my mind and not from her.
This year will be the first year since that night of 2007 that I do not talk to her, touch her or spend time with her on her birthday.
Since then she gave me fantastic children, a place I call home and partnership in this adventure we call life. But above all this, she gave me love. Unconditional love. Was I always worth her love? No. Of course no. But that does not mean that I did not need it.
I need it. I need her. And I love her. She does not believe it no more but it is the truth.
Today - ten years later, I am in African City. Alone. She was supposed to fly in and we go to that same restaurant we went to. Or another one. A better one. At least we would be in African City. The time is not right though. Will we have 10 more years together? I want to but only God knows.
Today, amidst all the turbulence of life, I just want at least a one day truce. I just want to wish you happy birthday and wish that tomorrow, next month, next years be better than the past ones.
You are a fantastic woman, a great Mum, and the best spouse I would ever had.

Happy Birthday!

May God bless you.

With Love

Your [WAYWARD] Husband

[ENDS]

Translation: I REALLY REALLY don't want to pay those school fees.....




BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
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