Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 20 of 22 1 2 18 19 20 21 22
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
M
Messy Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
Please answer these questions:
1. Does she still work with OM? - No
2. Do you still attend church with OM? - No
3. Since you and OM were best friends, do YOU still have contact with OM? - No
4. Do you still hang out in social circles with OM? - No, we had a few friends in common, but not anymore.
5. How often did you travel for work over the last several months? You said OM was in your house (having sex in your bed) while ALL of your kids were home and sleeping. Since you have a 12 yo that means it had to be at night. You also said OM was in your home 'consistently' which means you were consistently gone at night? - I had to travel 2 times in the last year, I don't expect to travel much. It was during these trips OM was there at night, the rest was during the day while the youngest slept.
6. With the current job you have, are you ever going to have to travel again or not? Potentially, but not likely at this time.
7. Why did you tell us she had closed all social media, when in fact she has NOT? I guess I didn't consider the texting app as social media.
8. What are you doing right now to sell your home and move? What is your plan here? Applied for jobs out of state, meeting with realtor today, contacting contractor friend to fix up house to sell.
9. You have indicated on page 1 and also very recently that WW knows about MB and you have shared the webpage (even after we advised you to not bring her here) Does WW know about and have access to this thread? Yes she has access to the thread and knows about it. I tried to get her on board with MB after the first exposure, so she's familiar with the website.



Messy #2898891 05/15/17 02:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,197
U
Member
Offline
Member
U
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,197
Originally Posted by Messy
Yes she has access to the thread and knows about it. I tried to get her on board with MB after the first exposure, so she's familiar with the website.

How long has she been reading this thread? What have been her comments in regards to this thread and MB?

This would have been valuable information for us to know MrRollieEyes

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
M
Messy Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by unwritten
How long has she been reading this thread? What have been her comments in regards to this thread and MB?

This would have been valuable information for us to know MrRollieEyes

Honestly I don't know, I'm not even sure she's read the thread. Her main comments have been that she doesn't think SAA is a 'one size fits all' solution. She continues to hold my past against me, despite the fact that I've taken action to fix it. She uses that to justify the fact that SAA wont work.

Even today, when I've continued to push the EPs, she throws it in my face. That's when I shut down, because there's not much I can say, other than, yes, I did that, and I've fixed it. But in her mind, since it was over a longer period of time she has endured more, so I can't call the shots, at least that's my read of her point of view. I basically told her she should have treated me the same and not taken the risks that I wouldn't fall back into the addiction without EPs. She's mad that I didn't change until I was hurt, not sure what to say to that one. I can't change the reality of that.

Latest update on EPs - She's agreed to deleting the primary app they used for contact. However now the cell number change is on hold.

She also thinks I'm crazy now for getting the cameras. It was probably a bad move to not be covert about it, I might just send them back and go covert.


Messy #2898902 05/15/17 04:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Messy
Originally Posted by unwritten
How long has she been reading this thread? What have been her comments in regards to this thread and MB?

This would have been valuable information for us to know MrRollieEyes

Honestly I don't know, I'm not even sure she's read the thread. Her main comments have been that she doesn't think SAA is a 'one size fits all' solution. She continues to hold my past against me, despite the fact that I've taken action to fix it. She uses that to justify the fact that SAA wont work.

Even today, when I've continued to push the EPs, she throws it in my face. That's when I shut down, because there's not much I can say, other than, yes, I did that, and I've fixed it. But in her mind, since it was over a longer period of time she has endured more, so I can't call the shots, at least that's my read of her point of view. I basically told her she should have treated me the same and not taken the risks that I wouldn't fall back into the addiction without EPs. She's mad that I didn't change until I was hurt, not sure what to say to that one. I can't change the reality of that.

That is a great manipulation tactic to take the focus off of her and onto you. She's "MAD" about bad behavior that ended almost a year ago. MrRollieEyes CUTE. HOW CONVENIENT. Since you stopped and have taken steps to correct your behavior when she will she stop and correct her behavior?

Quote
Latest update on EPs - She's agreed to deleting the primary app they used for contact. However now the cell number change is on hold.

So, you can call and just cancel the # yourself. Don't pay for her to have a phone she had an affair over if she is not serious about recovery.

Quote
She also thinks I'm crazy now for getting the cameras. It was probably a bad move to not be covert about it, I might just send them back and go covert.

Agree, send them back. nNt because you are "crazy," [she is crazy for screwing a married man in her children's home, for God's sake] but because there is no point in having cameras she knows about.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
M
Messy Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
No progress yet, other than a verbal commitment to delete the last social media app. She's still considering the phone number change. I'm holding firm those 2 things need to happen.

Messy #2898929 05/16/17 09:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,197
U
Member
Offline
Member
U
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,197
Originally Posted by Messy
No progress yet, other than a verbal commitment to delete the last social media app. She's still considering the phone number change. I'm holding firm those 2 things need to happen.

You should be holding firm that ALL EP's need to happen.

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
M
Messy Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
I wanted to provide an update for all of you and make sure I'm still heading in the right direction.

We finished up the social media EPs, I now have access to everything and traceable records to all social media communication. NC letter has not been sent, and we have jointly decided to not move until we see how the recovery process goes. We both determined that since we'd only be able to move a short distance and that we may consider a farther move in the future it was best to stay where we are and prep the house to sell after next school year. Also, knowing my own stress levels I think a move at this point would make plan A extremely difficult.

I'm currently doing the best plan A I can, WW is still going thru the withdrawal phase, but appears to be coming out of the fog for real this time now that NC has been in place for over a month.

It's different this time around. There's real, honest communication on both sides. She's slowly opening herself up to reconnecting. At this point, my goal is to win her back through a strong plan A and a demonstration that my efforts to change and eliminate LBs are permanent changes.

I still struggle with the emotions of it being un-fair that I have to win her back, but I want to save my marriage and family, I try to keep myself focused on that goal when the weakness and fatigue try to get me to give up.

Special thanks to Markos - I've been re-reading a lot of your old posts lately and using that as inspiration to eliminate LB and make deposits.

Messy #2899675 06/09/17 11:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,079
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,079
Messy,

Why are you back if you 1) have not demanded a NC letter, and 2) have not insisted on moving FAR way?? To get the gist of what you have been advised here, please read the recent posts of chaulkncheese - she is someone who has backbone and does not let her WS manipulate her, and has put6 MB into practice as best she can. And so, she refuses the NC letter and you're okay with that.. Have you even replaced your bed where they made love?? Good luck to you!

Tom

Tom2010 #2899755 06/13/17 01:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
M
Messy Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
Tom,
I understand your perspective because I'm not following the EP's to the t. I'm choosing not to move, and from what I remember from SAA Dr. Harley says it may not be necessary. I haven't given up on the NC letter, but I'm also choosing to not take a stand on that particular EP.

I'm back because I'm looking for support and guidance as we proceed into recovery, if I can even call it that.

WW is convinced she fell out of love with me prior to the A, but I believe she fell out of love with me BECAUSE of the A, and is hanging on to that to justify her lack of effort to restore the M. I'm frustrated by it, and I don't think its fair. I wanted to see what others thought who have been there and had to win back a WW. I understand that's my reality, but if I'm being honest, I'm struggling greatly with it. She's very much like Susan in SAA, feeling that I should be happy she's just showing up, and I'm like John, feeling like she should be happy I'm letting her back.

The problem is she is not yet making much of an effort to meet my ENs, there has been slight improvement. I guess I just need a sanity check, because I'm afraid I want the quick fix and I'm losing sight of the small steps.

Messy #2899757 06/13/17 01:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,446
Likes: 8
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,446
Likes: 8
Originally Posted by Messy
I'm choosing not to move, and from what I remember from SAA Dr. Harley says it may not be necessary.
Dr Harley says no such thing, if the affair partner lives nearby.

Please cite the page number where he makes this claim.


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Messy #2899760 06/13/17 04:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Messy
Tom,
I understand your perspective because I'm not following the EP's to the t. I'm choosing not to move, and from what I remember from SAA Dr. Harley says it may not be necessary. I haven't given up on the NC letter, but I'm also choosing to not take a stand on that particular EP.

No, it is necessary. Unless he changed his mind since todays show at 1pm, you do have to move. He has said for years recovery is impossible when you live close to the OP. You have learned this truth the hard way.

if you have found a loophole we don't know about regarding the moving rule, please let us know so we can inform Dr Harley of this dangerous loophole that has been exploited.

Quote
WW is convinced she fell out of love with me prior to the A, but I believe she fell out of love with me BECAUSE of the A, and is hanging on to that to justify her lack of effort to restore the M. I'm frustrated by it, and I don't think its fair.

This is like trying to reason with a falling down drunk and deciding fairness. Your wife is fogged out because of your close proximity to the OM.

Quote
I wanted to see what others thought who have been there and had to win back a WW. I understand that's my reality, but if I'm being honest, I'm struggling greatly with it.

Welcome to your future if you won't move.

Quote
The problem is she is not yet making much of an effort to meet my ENs, there has been slight improvement. I guess I just need a sanity check, because I'm afraid I want the quick fix and I'm losing sight of the small steps.

Well, there isn't even a LONG FIX in sight unless you set the stage for recovery, and that means moving.

Keep in mind, you can do whatever you want. It is your life. But if you are serious about saving your marriage, you need to move.

So where is this loophole?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Messy #2899761 06/13/17 04:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Messy
NC letter has not been sent, and we have jointly decided to not move until we see how the recovery process goes.

There is no "recovery" until you move.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
M
Messy Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
I guess I interpreted the "if necessary" in the book as leaving it to an individuals discretion depending on circumstances. My hope is that OMW is successful in having them move far away. I know it is a goal for them. Otherwise we are waiting to move until next spring (at this point), I'm still job hunting. Also, if OM/OMW move far away that frees us up to move a shorter distance and allow me to keep my job.

Again, I know this isn't Dr. Harley's exact plan, but I'm not ready to try and tackle a move and new job on top of all of this.

Is it possible for recovery to begin without it being 'complete' due to the moving?

Messy #2899778 06/14/17 01:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,197
U
Member
Offline
Member
U
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,197
No. As long as there is contact (which there will be, even if it is passing by OM on the street), your WW will remain fogged out and recovery will be impossible. But we don't have to tell you that because you are already living it.

Messy #2899781 06/14/17 02:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,446
Likes: 8
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,446
Likes: 8
Originally Posted by Messy
I guess I interpreted the "if necessary" in the book as leaving it to an individuals discretion depending on circumstances.
Moving "If necessary" means moving if the affair partner lives within a distance where meetings would be relatively easy to conduct.

If your wife and OM were able to meet without having to fly, or to drive for 5 hours, or to taking a long-distance train, and if she and he still live now where they lived then, then moving is necessary.

What, in your wildest dreams, makes you think that moving is not necessary for you and your wife?

She still lives within easy meeting distance of him. She is still fogged out and uncommitted to the marriage. You have made no progress in recovery, which is a sign that contact has not ceased.

Do tell me: when you use your discretion about your own case, what are the circumstances that make you think that staying put will help your marriage?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Messy #2899782 06/14/17 02:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,446
Likes: 8
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,446
Likes: 8
Originally Posted by Messy
We both determined that since we'd only be able to move a short distance and that we may consider a farther move in the future it was best to stay where we are and prep the house to sell after next school year.
Why would you only be able to move a short distance?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
M
Messy Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
My thinking was that if OM/OMW move far away, we only need to move to a new house, new town, but I could keep my job.




Messy #2899784 06/14/17 02:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,446
Likes: 8
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,446
Likes: 8
Originally Posted by Messy
My thinking was that if OM/OMW move far away, we only need to move to a new house, new town, but I could keep my job.
I'm not sure if that is meant as an answer to my question about not being able to move very far.

I quoted you saying that you would only be able to move a short distance, if you moved now. I'm asking you why that would be. Why are you unable to move far?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
M
Messy Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
Sorry, we could feasibly move far. Pending a job and agreement by both of us to do so. Both of which neither one of us want to do right now.

Messy #2899786 06/14/17 03:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,446
Likes: 8
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,446
Likes: 8
Originally Posted by Messy
Sorry, we could feasibly move far. Pending a job and agreement by both of us to do so. Both of which neither one of us want to do right now.
This is still not clear to me.

Are you saying that neither of you wants actually wants to move far away? Why not?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Page 20 of 22 1 2 18 19 20 21 22

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
2 members (2 invisible), 33 guests, and 49 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Almak, A3W, OnTheRocks, Alise245, CVT
71,702 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,537
Posts2,322,697
Members71,702
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5