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Chalk,

I realize now that you're move is completed that there is a time to think about the past and what could be (i.e., the grief). But, even in this, please don't blame yourself or think of yourself as enabling. You trusted, and loved, and hoped, which are very good things, but often times some who are closest to us take advantage of this for their selfish interests. So, I doubt you enabled - I think you tried to love unconditionally and you were taken for granted. I hope you have an individual and personal faith you can turn to because I do feel that God does allow these tragedies to happen to us all - some serious and some minor - but, if only in a prayer or a whisper, He welcomes us to call Him for grace in these times. I also just want to say that you are a very admirable person, and I hope that after this situation settles for you, that you will stay here on the MB forum to try to provide advice and guidance in the future for those facing similar pain.

Take care,
Tom

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Originally Posted By: living_well
Originally Posted By: chalkncheese

My eyes have been truly opened to the uncomfortable truths about the way human beings behave in relationships. And while it is distressing to have most of your preconceptions shattered to start with, it is also so enlightening to begin to understand that appalling behaviour follows some kind of predictable pattern even if that pattern defies normal logic and moral reasoning.


There is a cycle to grief, CS Lewis wrote a wonderful book (A Grief Observed) about it after his wife died. It starts with deep anger that God could do such a terrible thing and he temporarily loses his faith. It ends with an understanding that loss is part of life. That there is a cycle of learning through suffering without which we cannot gain wisdom.

Once you get to the end of this process that you are now going through, you will find rewards that you cannot even yet imagine. Give it five years.


Thanks Living Well. I will look for that book. I am already feeling the benefits of all the wisdom gained through this experience and reflections on the past 10 years. But I can see that it is a work in progress because I am still so tangled up in the trauma. I can't imagine how I might enter a future relationship with so much fear and anxiety connected to triggers resulting from WH's behaviour. I am genuinely afraid of phones and instant messaging, for example, and feel very anxious seeing anybody being too attached to their phone. Does anyone know if Dr Harley has advice about how to deal with this kind of aversion? Although its not in the context of recovering the relationship, I really would like to be able to be in public without feeling suspicious anxiety about what everyone is doing with their phones!


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted By: chalkncheese

Thanks Living Well. I will look for that book.

You can download it onto a Kindle, it is very short.

Originally Posted By: chalkncheese
I am genuinely afraid of phones and instant messaging, for example, and feel very anxious seeing anybody being too attached to their phone. Does anyone know if Dr Harley has advice about how to deal with this kind of aversion? Although its not in the context of recovering the relationship, I really would like to be able to be in public without feeling suspicious anxiety about what everyone is doing with their phones!


It is called PTSD my friend. I remember that stage. It will pass, be kind to yourself. Find joy in the small things around you.


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Originally Posted By: BrainHurts
I'm so happy that you'll be able to get into a true, dark Plan B and know that you will continue to become a MB success story. I know you might not be able to save your marriage, but I have a feeling you will be one of our MB personal success stories.

I'm sorry for the stage of grief you're in and I understand that very much. How is your self-care.? Are you doing anything for yourself?


Hi BrainHurts, thanks a lot for your kind words. I do feel that this process has been a success for me so far - especially now the move is done. There is still the unresolved issue of money, but I think my lawyer is going to do a good job of holding WH to account. We are planning to serve him with an emergency maintenance order, a restraining order and divorce papers when he gets to the airport after bringing OC back.

And, yes, self care is top of the agenda now!! I am really loving the process of kitting out the new house and decorating in the way I want things to be. The kids and I are making plans for all the fun stuff we want to do now that we live in a place with normal facilities like cinemas and shops. We are starting a regular movie night on Fridays (which the kids are ecstatic about since we have lived in a country without a cinema for the past 10 years), I've joined the gym which is 5 mins walk from my new house, and arranged to go along to a regular community dog-and-kid walking group at the weekend. I'm also doing a wardrobe make over (well, it will happen over a few months to allow for cash flow...) and have found local places for hair and nails so that I can feel better about myself and cover these grey hairs!

I'm suffering a bit from the effects of moving since I have been driving backwards and forwards between old and new places (5-6 hours drive each way) six round trips in the past two weeks trying to sort out the complicated moving process with two cars, a dog, three kids (while OC is away), and a nanny with only me to do all of it. The last of our furniture was finally picked up by the removals people yesterday, so I will only need to do one more round trip at the weekend to return the keys to the landlord and organise a clean up of the empty place. Now the frustration is waiting for our furniture to be delivered to the new place. Although I can drive it in 6 hours, apparently it takes the removals truck a week.....


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted By: living_well
Originally Posted By: chalkncheese

Thanks Living Well. I will look for that book.

You can download it onto a Kindle, it is very short.

Originally Posted By: chalkncheese
I am genuinely afraid of phones and instant messaging, for example, and feel very anxious seeing anybody being too attached to their phone. Does anyone know if Dr Harley has advice about how to deal with this kind of aversion? Although its not in the context of recovering the relationship, I really would like to be able to be in public without feeling suspicious anxiety about what everyone is doing with their phones!


It is called PTSD my friend. I remember that stage. It will pass, be kind to yourself. Find joy in the small things around you.


Thanks Living Well. I am definitely finding joy in small things. You would not believe how exciting it is for me to drive to work and sit in an office for 8 hours then drive home again, after years of trying to juggle working partially from home with frequent trips away and catering for all the needs of four kids and a husband laugh


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Hmmm. Dark plan B is difficult when WH is not paying maintenance. I have a lawyer working on it, but he was supposed to send money at the beginning of the month and he only sent 50% of what he was supposed to. We have to wait until he arrives in the country in August to serve him with papers, so what do I do until then? Should I just not comment on it and liquidate some assets to cover my costs?


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Did you already let him know through the IM what he needs to pay?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: BrainHurts
Did you already let him know through the IM what he needs to pay?


Hi BrainHurts, yep and we also have a social worker/mediator who is helping us to resolve disagreements about the kids' school. But WH does not respect agreements and, just in the same way that he did everything possible to frustrate arrangements for seeing the children when we were still in the same country (not turning up until hours later than agreed, refusing to respect the arrangements, etc), he does everything possible to make transferring money as difficult as possible. He does not send the right amounts. He refuses to send proof of payment so I can see when the money was sent and follow up with my bank. He divides the money he sends into several small payments and sends them to different accounts of mine over several days, so I can't easily track them down. He makes up new excuses every month for why he is not sending what he is supposed to. And he is now accusing me of being racist in the way I am talking to him because I am asking for proof of payment from the bank, not a screen grab from his online banking (which only shows his reference name for the payment not the actual details of sending or recieving accounts). He lies and evades accountability about EVERYTHING all the time. It is totally exhausting. And it makes it next to impossible not to communicate with him because, if I don't, I will not get any money at all until the court processes are done - and that could be months. And he is so good at lying that if he is allowed to present his excuses to other people, they will believe that he is "trying". With the false proof of payment, for example, he will convince everyone that he is sending me documentation that is sufficient. But it is not! And because other people are not so used to his extremely devious ways of lying and avoiding accountability, they will not have the appropriate level of scrutiny like i do.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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I was feeling very frustrated that this maintenance issue is giving WH power in a situation where he should have no power - and having money to burn is supporting his fogged out state. So I have been wracking my brain to think of a way that I can take power back, get around the fact that I need him to send me money, and remove his ability to mess me around and stress me each month.

This is my solution: since I have all the marital assets (two cars and a house that is rented out) in my name, I am going to take advantage of that and sell off the house and one car and then use that money to pay rent, school fees, health care, ulilities and legal fees for a year or more in advance. By doing that, I am taking away assets from the marital estate and using that money to benefit the children and I in the long term, while also not accumulating large amounts of cash that would have to be divided in the divorce. Since payments for school fees, rent and healthcare cannot be labelled as undermining the marriage, these payments could not be taken off my share of the marital estate when it is finally divided (dissipation of marital assets). Also, paying these things in advance does not lessen WH's obligation to contribute to 60% of all those costs, just buys me the time to work through the court process and lawyers to get it out of him.

In the country where I am living, assets are divided at the point of divorce not at the point of filing, so I think it makes financial sense to dispose of cash and assets now (especially if I can use them in ways that will free up my salary in the months ahead). This strategy will also mean that the divorce focuses mainly on WH's hidden assets in his home country which should place additional pressure on him. I think he has been assuming that if he allows me to keep the house and cars, then my lawyers will leave his assets in his home country alone. No chance!


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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You are buying yourself a year of reduced stress. Smart girl! Don't forget to consult a financial expert on this, he might have some other tips for you.

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Originally Posted By: chalkncheese
I was feeling very frustrated that this maintenance issue is giving WH power in a situation where he should have no power - and having money to burn is supporting his fogged out state. So I have been wracking my brain to think of a way that I can take power back, get around the fact that I need him to send me money, and remove his ability to mess me around and stress me each month


This is a marathon, not a sprint. Your WH is doing this out of spite because he is angry.

Originally Posted By: chalkncheese
This is my solution: since I have all the marital assets (two cars and a house that is rented out) in my name, I am going to take advantage of that and sell off the house and one car and then use that money to pay rent, school fees, health care, ulilities and legal fees for a year or more in advance. By doing that, I am taking away assets from the marital estate and using that money to benefit the children and I in the long term, while also not accumulating large amounts of cash that would have to be divided in the divorce.


His anger is going to last a lot longer than these assets. As soon as he discovers what you are doing, he is going to cease all support payments. Once you have burned through the assets, what are you going to do next? Think chess game here. My WXH was able to stretch out the divorce process for five years (assets divided on divorce like yours) and has still not divided the assets that were under his control. We are on our 14th law suit.

Originally Posted By: chalkncheese
This strategy will also mean that the divorce focuses mainly on WH's hidden assets in his home country which should place additional pressure on him.


Here is what I suggest (20:20 hindsight is a great thing). First see if you can get his employer to take the maintenance/support payments out of his wages. I seem to recall he has a US employer so this should be possible. Evidence of his mucking you around is all you need for this.

Then start the process asap of discovering his assets. You will need a court order giving you discovery, ideally this should be done in secret. Think about where the hidden assets might be now. Once you have a paper trail, the rest is easy. I was able to find and freeze assets that had gone to a secret account in Luxembourg.


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Originally Posted By: living_well
Originally Posted By: chalkncheese
I was feeling very frustrated that this maintenance issue is giving WH power in a situation where he should have no power - and having money to burn is supporting his fogged out state. So I have been wracking my brain to think of a way that I can take power back, get around the fact that I need him to send me money, and remove his ability to mess me around and stress me each month


This is a marathon, not a sprint. Your WH is doing this out of spite because he is angry.

Originally Posted By: chalkncheese
This is my solution: since I have all the marital assets (two cars and a house that is rented out) in my name, I am going to take advantage of that and sell off the house and one car and then use that money to pay rent, school fees, health care, ulilities and legal fees for a year or more in advance. By doing that, I am taking away assets from the marital estate and using that money to benefit the children and I in the long term, while also not accumulating large amounts of cash that would have to be divided in the divorce.


His anger is going to last a lot longer than these assets. As soon as he discovers what you are doing, he is going to cease all support payments. Once you have burned through the assets, what are you going to do next? Think chess game here. My WXH was able to stretch out the divorce process for five years (assets divided on divorce like yours) and has still not divided the assets that were under his control. We are on our 14th law suit.

Originally Posted By: chalkncheese
This strategy will also mean that the divorce focuses mainly on WH's hidden assets in his home country which should place additional pressure on him.


Here is what I suggest (20:20 hindsight is a great thing). First see if you can get his employer to take the maintenance/support payments out of his wages. I seem to recall he has a US employer so this should be possible. Evidence of his mucking you around is all you need for this.

Then start the process asap of discovering his assets. You will need a court order giving you discovery, ideally this should be done in secret. Think about where the hidden assets might be now. Once you have a paper trail, the rest is easy. I was able to find and freeze assets that had gone to a secret account in Luxembourg.


Thank you so much living well. This is really invaluable advice!!! Yes, I can get what they call a garnishment order to take money straight from his salary, so it is essentially paid to me by my company. I have started the process here, but it will take about three months to get the court order and then he has to not pay the ordered amount for 10 days to give me the right to apply for a garnishment order.

I am so horrified at the thought of 14 lawsuits since I am already on number 6.....and we only separated in February!! Does your ex carry the costs of these suits? And if so has he paid?

I have a very good salary, so I can cover all the costs of the family myself if I need to and am not in a financially precarious situation. I am just really concerned that WH will get away with hiding all this money and not paying what he is supposed to - and that makes me mad mad

I had one stroke of luck last week. In the house move, I discovered an entire suitcase of documents that I had neglected to throw out with WH when I threw the rest of his stuff out. It includes folders with receipts and financial statements for ALL the investments he has made in land and property in his home country. Ironically, the date of the first receipt is one day after our marriage. So I have proof of everything up to the point of our separation for his home country. Now I am looking into anything he might have bought or purchased in the country we were resident in until last month, and then any assets or funds that might have been hidden since February this year. Thank you so much for helping to clarify what I should focus on!


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted By: chalkncheese

Thank you so much living well. This is really invaluable advice!!! Yes, I can get what they call a garnishment order to take money straight from his salary, so it is essentially paid to me by my company. I have started the process here, but it will take about three months to get the court order and then he has to not pay the ordered amount for 10 days to give me the right to apply for a garnishment order.


Perfect and that takes you out of his games.

Originally Posted By: chalkncheese
I am so horrified at the thought of 14 lawsuits since I am already on number 6.....and we only separated in February!! Does your ex carry the costs of these suits? And if so has he paid?


Technically yes he pays. In practice he claims to be penniless. Hence the Luxembourg freeze.

Originally Posted By: chalkncheese
I have a very good salary, so I can cover all the costs of the family myself if I need to and am not in a financially precarious situation. I am just really concerned that WH will get away with hiding all this money and not paying what he is supposed to - and that makes me mad mad


You might have to let it go.

Originally Posted By: chalkncheese
I had one stroke of luck last week. In the house move, I discovered an entire suitcase of documents that I had neglected to throw out with WH when I threw the rest of his stuff out. It includes folders with receipts and financial statements for ALL the investments he has made in land and property in his home country. Ironically, the date of the first receipt is one day after our marriage. So I have proof of everything up to the point of our separation for his home country. Now I am looking into anything he might have bought or purchased in the country we were resident in until last month, and then any assets or funds that might have been hidden since February this year. Thank you so much for helping to clarify what I should focus on!


Excellent, keep your cards close. Important he not know how much information you have. It is possible that you will need to wait till after the divorce is final to get discovery. Remember that his earnings post filing are his separate property except for whatever is required to be paid out for support. He will try to play games with this but you are entitled to know it all.


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Hi Living Well,

A few more questions for you: how was your exWH able to string out the divorce so long? Was it you who filed or him? And did you use a forensic accountant for the discovery of the foreign assets? Thank you!


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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My WH has threatened to file in his home country (where everything is possible through bribes) to prevent me from doing things properly, but I don't think he really will. He still doesn't believe I am actually divorcing him. It is frustrating that not being able to serve him papers until he is in this country is making him think I am making idle threats. It allows him to continue his self-deception that he is the most desirable man in the world and no woman could possibly not want him.

I did a bit of reading about his country's divorce law and it seems that we have to be physically separated for at least 3 years before he can file, and adultery is a crime punishable by prison or fines (theoretically - although I really doubt any man has EVER been prosecuted for cheating, which is something considered as normal as eating dinner over there), so I don't think it would be in his interest to go down that route. By contrast, the country where I am resident has a fairly quick no-fault divorce process that only requires one year of separation if there is no other grounds for divorce (if it was him that wanted to file). I have plenty of grounds so have no need to wait though.

Last edited by chalkncheese; 07/13/17 06:33 AM.

BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted By: chalkncheese
Hi Living Well,

A few more questions for you: how was your exWH able to string out the divorce so long? Was it you who filed or him?


I was the classic innocent victim and he is a Harvard Law School grad. I filed for divorce citing adultery. He said he would challenge the cause meaning I would have to haul the Fat Slag into a court room. My lawyer suggested we compromise by letting him file for desertion instead. Massive mistake as it meant he controlled the calendar. Then he objected, appealed and delayed again and again. At one point he claimed to have had a religious conversion and could no longer get divorced, yup you could not make it up. Eventually I got my judgement of divorce. He slipped up and forgot to appeal that. Had he appealed, the divorce would have taken a further year.

Originally Posted By: chalkncheese
And did you use a forensic accountant for the discovery of the foreign assets? Thank you!


No although we may have to go that route now. With discovery, I was able to get access to all the bank statements going back to the first filing. It then became obvious where the transfers were going so following the threads was not hard. Luxembourg was just a lucky break, we were on a terrorist mission there. Did not expect to find anything. There are lots of other foreign assets.


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Originally Posted By: chalkncheese
He still doesn't believe I am actually divorcing him. It is frustrating that not being able to serve him papers until he is in this country is making him think I am making idle threats.


No more threats. Go quiet. Softly softly catchee monkey.


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Originally Posted By: goody2shoes
You are buying yourself a year of reduced stress. Smart girl! Don't forget to consult a financial expert on this, he might have some other tips for you.


Thanks Goody2Shoes! That's a good idea. I met with a tax consultant last week (just because I have moved country and become liable for tax here now), but he didn't seem to be too helpful with the strategic moving of money stuff. So I will look for another financial advisor who can help.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
We have been talking to OC every day on Skype. But this weekend he has just been in tears during the calls, unable to talk properly. This morning WH sent me an email to say that on Saturday OC went to visit his biological mother, after WH and OC met a cousin of hers by chance when they were out grocery shopping on Saturday morning.

OC doesn't remember his biological mother. And he doesn't speak her language anymore. But WH thought it was fine to drop OC at her house, and leave him there alone to be bombarded with attention by enthusiastic relatives (this is a large African family living in a poor area which means the lifestyle is very communal - people are always everywhere and the idea of a nuclear family is quite foreign) all desperate to talk to him.

The predictable result was a traumatised OC crying that he doesn't want to be a "special boy who has two mothers" anymore, he only wants his English mother and he wants to come home to his brothers and sister. I just want him home. I am so worried that he will be scarred as a result of this experience. Or that his biological mother will withdraw her consent for adoption now that she sees how he doesn't want to be in his home country anymore.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
C
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OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 599
We are anticipating that OC's visa for the country where I am now living will be out in 3 more weeks. But I guess a lot can change in that time.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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