<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

Hey OOOO, hope you're doing OK.<P>First, I would copy the letters before giving them back. Why does she want them? Has she changed her mind about their content?<P>About Father's Day, if she didn't consult with you about the change in plans, she was clearly being disrespectful - but this is nothing compared to the disrespect she's shown you all along. I think it could be an LB to her for you to go elsewhere with your kids - only she'll be able to tell you that. Can you suggest your idea to do things separately, thereby showing her the respect she didn't show you? After all, it's Father's Day, not Father-in-Law day, not Grandfather's Day, and not Husband's Day.<P>WAT

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

OK, I understand. What is your current relationship with her family? Notwithstanding her Clintonian definition, did her parents believe you about the affair? What do your kids want to do for YOUR day? Maybe they should be the decision makers?<P>WAT

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

offononoff,<P>It sounds to me like you are the one being contrary here.<BR>Ever since you have been married you have celebrated<BR>Father's Day with your in-laws, so now why the big need to change? What difference does it make to celebrate a week later or to do something later that evening with just your family? If you get along so well with your in laws then why would you feel out of place with the family?<BR>I know you have been thru an ordeal and are tired of smiling and letting them think everything is fine, so talk with them privately and let them know how you feel. You don't have to pretend that things are fine when they aren't, but that doesn't mean you need to be a wet blanket while celebrating Father's Day with your father-in-law.<P>It's Father's Day, you are both fathers and how lucky for you children that they can celebrate with both their grandfather and their father. Many famiies don't have that.<BR>How fortunate they are that you are a kind and caring and loving father who chose to stay with their mother and try to work things out. <BR>I hope you have a wonderful Father's Day. Make plans with your children for the following week for that picnic by the lake. Maybe the evening of Father's Day you could take them out to a movie you have been wanting to see. As with the whole situation, you have choices to make that will make the day a fun happy day or a frustrating long day.<BR>It's up to you. I hope you choose to have fun.<P>that's the humble opinion for what it's worth.<BR>dlm

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

Well OOOO,<P>I guess I have to weigh in here with an opinion. Just as your W wants to celebrate Father's day with HER father, I feel your children should celebrate Father's day with their father. That would be you.<P>Who cares if it is an LB? She asked you, and then unilaterly changed plans. Fine. No problem. You are not your W's father, she doesn't need to be there at your pinic with the children.<P>I personally think that you and the children celebrating Father's day together would be good for them, enjoyable for them and good for you. As for your W, she is where she wants to be with her Father.<P>It may not set well with your FIL, but it also may suggest that all is not well in your house. You are close to Plan B and perhaps divorce. There are a whole bunch of potential messages, but the most important one is that YOU be honest with yourself, your W and your children.<P>I believe from what I have read you want to spend Father's day with your children having a picnic. Do it!! Pure and simple.<P>Quite frankly, a lot of things are going to have to change before your marriage can be saved and very little has changed. Don't cheat yourself or your children. Have a fun day, and let your W enjoy her day.<P>No arguements, no further discussion, simply tell her what you plan to do on Father's day and how you plan to enjoy being with your children.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

OOOO:<P>I echo what JL said.<P>Also, on the letters... My first instinct is to photocopy them, and then run them through a paper shredder. Hand her the remains in a paper bag. That might just be a <B>teeny</B> LoveBuster, though... <P>It’s not really your problem is she is “embarrassed” by her actions should the copies fall into the wrong hands.<P><BR>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die<BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited June 11, 2001).]

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

This will be short - cause I gotta get to work... So don't mistake this for insensitive, please?<P>I think the short and wise suggestion is: Her needs come first - put yours on the back burner - and if she is willing to allow you to help FIL celebrate Fathers Day - do it! <P>Do your day on Saturday before or the week after. DO NOT MAKE ANY DEMANDS - they can be seen as selfish - remember WS DEFINES WHAT A LOVEBUSTER IS! <P>This isn't about being right or wrong, this is about "on the goal on the goal on the goal" RESTORE YOUR MARRIAGE!<P>Have a GOOD DAY<BR>TnT

OOOO - this is a toughie. I thought about replying exactly as trustntruth says, but I know you know this. Only you can make the call. Even in healthy marriages, there's a big difference between being right and being "right."<P>WAT

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

<B>OOOO</B>,<P>This is a tough one. I'm not sure that I have a good feel for whether you're still making any progress with her or not. Glaciers move, but very slowly, and it's sometimes hard to tell.<P>There's perhaps a fine line between Plan A and losing your own boundaries. Maybe it's time to start establishing more boundaries and independence, though in a kind way. As I recall, your W has always had a problem with control. Being able to show love to her, but not submit to control, may be the best thing here.<P>If you've followed any of the discussions (mostly on EN) on the book <I>Passionate Marriage</I>, one of its main points is that becoming more independent actually opens the way to greater passion and bonding. This is not the same as withdrawing or not caring, just no longer being what the author calls "enmeshed".<P>So, I cast my vote for going to the lake with your kids. Of course, yours is the only vote that counts here, but that's my recommendation. Be loving, let her (and your in-laws) know you care, but also be your own person.<P>Steve

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

Dear OOOO:<P>Although I realize where you are coming from I still think this would be counter-productive to your long range goals.<BR>It seems like you are asking W to choose between being with your and kids or being with father on Father's Day. That's not fair...although I do think she should be more willing to make some arrangement where both of you could be happy.<P>One thing that struck me is that being a MIL myself I know that it hurts if on these special days my DIL does not make an attempt to participate....which she often doesn't. I feel like your inlaws have been very supportive of you and deserve your respect....after all this is just one day.<P>My father has been gone since I was 15 years old...and I miss him still...and wish he could be here on Father's Day.<BR>And my FIL, a man I much respected, has been gone for almost 15 years. I know I would give up any of my special days just to have these people back for just one day. I'm sure your FIL is reaching his elder years and he might not be around for many more....respect your W's wish to be with her father on this day...after all you are not excluded...you are very much included. Go and celebrate with these people while they are still here for you. <P>With this in mind, isn't there something you can arrange later in the day that would allow you to spend some fatherly time with your children without insisting that they be with you on father's day exclusively. Mother's day, birthdays, etc....all these are special days to spend in the warmth and comfort of family...and in a way if you do this you are saying I don't want to spend this special time with you.<P>Just a MIL's perspective...I just wish I could get as close to my DIL as I am to my children...but she comes from a disfunctional family that has no special ties to each other...so she doesn't understand. You appear to have that support and acceptance...please don't throw it away....like I said...it's just one day.<P><BR>Faye

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>