H is still deeply in the fog. No matter what I say...he twists it around. He is determined to go on with the divorce. He wrote to his b that our relationship was sick and that I am using the kids to get back to him....guess he forgot about seeing the kids everytime he is in town...he also forgot when he brought his kids on the boat with her and swimming.....oh well. He told him that when the divorce is final, he will work at re-establishing his relationship with the kids...right now, I am in the way. Right.<P>Yesterday he wrote that he wants to sell our retirement home. Guess this really is the end. I still am amazed...but I guess I had better quit looking at the past and focus on the future. How he can justify his beliefs is beyond me. I have always loved and been there for him. I know his mind tho...and he will never admit he has made a mistake...and once he has chosen what he wants to do...that is what he will do with no turning back. So...now what?<P>Hard to accept, being traded in for a 28 year old bimbo. One of my friends called yesterday and asked if I would really want him back after everything he has done. She told me to really think about it. Well, I did last night. I have forgiven Jim over and over again in our relationship...I have worked hard at forgiving and moving on with our relationship and marriage. I have put forth every effort to keep our family together and be a solid family. He has continuously gone outside our marriage, for whatever the reason to find happiness and excitement. He has a huge ego that needs to be filled. Honestly...would he ever change? Probably not. In his mind, I am easily replaceable. That hurts, but is probably reality. I can't change his perception of me.....why should I try? <P>Topic Should have been Losing All Hope !! <p>[This message has been edited by miserynmissouri (edited August 09, 2001).]

MnM:<P>You are at the Plan B phase.<P>My mind is boggled and the site is slowed to a crawl right now, so I can't remember if you did a Plan B letter.<P>If not, now would be a good time. Just to preserve whatever shred of love remains.<P>As for the rest: how can you be a loser? You have come a long way! Anytime we improve ourself it is a winning proposition, no matter the circumstance.<P>Is all of this the ideal circumstance? No, it is not what you would have scripted. But you are young yet and have a whole life in front of you. What you have learned here will serve you well.<P>Godspeed and prayers,<BR>STL

Hi MnM first of all big big Hugs!! Sweetie remember you can not do anything to change him he is in the fog sounds like it's really deep too, but one day he's going to wake up and realize what he's lost. Seriously do you think the 28 yr. old bimbo is going to want him when she realizes the honeymoon is over? No way!! Right now it's fun but that will fade real fast. Sounds as though he's doing whatever he can to try and hurt you! I know it's hard and we all get those questions "Do you really want him/her back?" I know it's easier said than done because I find myself in the same position trying to be strong and move on either way we all know our lives will go on with our spouses or not. Remember that we are here for you!!<BR>Hugs and prayers,<BR>cybil

Well, today was another journey. Went in to have testing done for AIDS, etc. How embarrasing!! Had the bloodwork done today and will go back another day for the rest.<P>No, I never actually did a Plan B letter. We never got that far. I did get a restraining order last week tho. I am thinking of rescinding it --because I have realized that I am going to need to work with him to get through this divorce. If I hit him with a restraining order I think it is just going to escalate. I don't know, I am going to try to talk to my lawyer tomorrow.<P>He is another trip. I decided to stay with him because he has been highly recommended. But he is horrible to work with. They called me in to sign counter suit divorce papers on Wednesday. When I got there, I had questions to ask him. His secretary said he had already left for the day. She showed me the papers and told me to read through them...well, they had a number of things wrong and didn't address many of the issues that were in H divorce papers. About that time, my lawyer comes out from a room down the hall. Yells at the secretary because I was standing by her desk, doesn't address me and storms into his office. She took me into a side room and apologized--said that he had been that way all day. Anyway, he never answered my questions, I couldn't give him the pictures he asked me to get...altogether an upsetting situation. I have an appt with him tomorrow at 9. If he can't behave professional, answer questions I may have--and be more respectable...I will have to find another lawyer. I don't need someone battering me when I am in this horrible situation anyway. Are all lawyers like this?<P>Yesterday, I mentioned my brother's wife has asked for a divorce...she says she just doesn't love him anymore. THey have two kids--who they both adore. How sad. My brother is also losing his job--and at 50 that is pretty bleak. They have been married 20 years.<P>Today my neighbor across the street came over and said that her h moved out last night for a 26 year old. She said she has been crying for three days. He said that he has never loved her. They have 3 kids and have been married for 20 years.<P>My daughter's speech teacher called also. She informed me that she had just been through a similar situation. She is a wonderful lady with 3 kids--already in college and he left her for a college student and got her pregnant. He also made her out to be this horrible, no good spouse. <P>Is this just rampant behavior? Whatever happened to responsibility, integrity and honoring your marriage vows. Whatever happened to taking care of your family. Is personal happiness the only thing that counts? And how can they be happy destroying the very thing that should make them happy--their family and spouse. Am I just being too old fashioned. I listen to my kids talk--and they are so disallusioned about husbands and marriage. Is it just the baby boomers. I am so discouraged...I have tried to live my life with loyalty, love, and integrity...and it doesn't matter because my husband didn't value that. How sad.

MnM:<P>Seems Moose Brain Worm infestations are running rampant.<P>As for your lawyer ... I don't how "highly" he is recommended, his conduct is extremely unprofessional. My lawyer was a nice guy (hard for me to say that about lawyers). Old school, urbane, polite ... but with a steel trap for a legal mind.<P>His concerns were: trying to preserve the family ... when that didn't work ... trying to provide, within the law, what was best for the kids.<P>There are good, humane, personable lawyers out there, hard as it is to believe. Or maybe I was just lucky.<P>Good luck and Godspeed,<BR>my prayers and thoughts with you,<BR>STL<BR>

Dear STL,<P>If he is not better tomorrow--do you think I dare ask him for my money back !!<P>I really don't have $1000 to throw out the window. I can't work with that abusive behavior tho. It is just too much after this ordeal with my husband. I have never had a lawyer before, so I really don't know. Any advice would be appreciated.

Dear MnM,<P>When you begin talking with others, we quickly find we are not alone. Many wonder why we keep trying. But in the long run MnM, you will have to do what is right for you and your family. However, you don't have to enable your H. If he wants a D, then let him go do the work. If he brings you the paperwork, then you sign when you are ready. <P>Like Cali, you need to determine and set your boundaries of how you will allow yourself to be treated. It is hard and it hurts very much to be treated like 2nd rate. But you know better than that, your H may not want to see you being treated like that but in order to keep the A going, he is going to have to make you and the children look bad. <P>That is his issue. You concentrate on those within your family arrangement. <P>It is hard, I know. We will be here for you. Please vent as much as you need. You have not reached the impossible state. There is still hope, it is just a bit hard to see at the moment. Don't give up. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

MnM:<P>Remember, you <I>hired</I> the attorney. He works <I>for</I> you. As in any business, if you have an employee whose behavior is objectionable, you have the right to terminate them.<P>Legally, though, he did perform (in some manner) legal services for you. In that regard, getting a refund is probably not going to happen. I don't know how much work he has done or how much of a retainer you paid, but you are entitled to an itemized bill. You are entitled to a refund of any unused portion of the retainer.<P>Most lawyers will give a free consult. Talk to some friends, find out who they use and what they think of their lawyers' ethics and demeanor. Most lawyers, the humane ones anyway, will work out a payment schedule. Mine did: he understood that I was trying to provide for 3 children, and he let me fit my payments within a budget.<P>As Orchid said: it is not too late ... it isn't over (to paraphrase) 'til the fat judge signs. No matter what happens, remember: you have grown and become stronger (I know, it's hard to believe that when in the midst of all you are in). So, in essence, you have already won. The only remaining question is whether your husband will become a winner too.<P>Prayers and thoughts with you,<BR>Godspeed,<BR>STL

I just got back from the lawyers. He was much better today. I gave him a list of things I want from this divorce. He seemed to address them. He said our case was rejected by three of the area judges because I am friends with them(or their wives). So, don't know who we get now. I hate going through this.<P>He suggested I not rescind the restraining order. I am worried that it will escalate the problems between us. I am going to have to work with h at some point to get through this divorce. He doesn't want me to have any contact with him at all. He told me to go through the attorneys. This is going to be difficult--it will be hard not to have any contact with him. Perhaps my Plan B will be put into effect this way. Not the way I would have preferred. <P>Gosh, I just want this to be over and get back to normal. It has been a long 5 months. If I could just see into the future. Everyone tells me it is going to be ok. Wish I knew that. I can't imagine what it is going to be like.<P>I will miss my husband, I will miss our family, I wish this hadn't occured. I asked my bil if he thought my husband would ever realize what he was giving up...and he said no. That really hurts. So hard to accept and move on. <P>Thank you STL and Orchid for your experience and advice. This is so hard to go through. <P>

Cybil,<BR>Thanks for your post too. It was really helpful...sometimes it helps so much just to have someone reflect on the situation. Sometimes I feel like I am losing all perspective. Thanks again for your support.

Dear MiserynMissouri - I am also from Missouri but now live in Va. Beach, VA. It's good to see someone else from my home state here!<P>This is so horrible - this epidemic of discarding spouses and family simply to fulfill one's selfish needs, with no regard to the pain caused. I will never understand it, if I live to be 100.<P>My H left me for OW after 17 years of marriage. We had no kids (he is sterile) so he left me for a woman with a 5 year old daughter so he could have someone to play Daddy with. This is the most difficult thing imaginable, being rejected and replaced, being kicked to the curb like so much garbage. But you know what - I realize that I am better off without him. But it was over 2 years before I got to that point, of the realization. The truth of the matter is that he did not love me, or even care about me the way one decent human being cares for another on a basic level. He totally cut me out of his life the last 7-8 years we were married - refused to have sex more than 2-3 times a year, criticized me constantly, made me feel totally unimportant in his life and in his heart. He put everything else, especially his FOO, above our marriage. I was last on his list, if I was on it at all. However, I forgave him all his cruelty and bad behavior, and loved him unconditionally and without reservation. Which meant NOTHING to him at all. He only cared about what he wanted for himself and his own ego needs. But I have overcome all of this and now have a life filled with friends and much joy. Of course I would rather have had my H and marriage as it existed before he became the selfish jerk, but the man I knew and loved ceased to exist before I even realized what was happening. He was detaching and moving me out of his heart slowly over the years, while still telling me he loved me and wanted our marriage. He would treat me badly for a while, and when I protested, he would clean up his act, which was just enough to restore my trust and hope that everything was going to be all right. I do not know if he has any regrets - he married her 4 months after our divorce with final. There is no contact at all, except for the spousal support checks that I will continue to receive for the next five years (!!!). He insists to everyone that he is so happy finally (supposedly after so many horrible years with me!!) Well, he may have kicked me to the curb, but he is the one living in the gutter!! OW has been married and divorced twice before - what do you suppose the odds are that their marriage will last?<P>My heart goes out to you. This is the most painful thing that can happen, next to the death of a loved one. Keep posting here, and if you would like to e-mail me and talk further, my e-mail address is: m_wadowski@hotmail.com<P>I will keep you in my prayers.<p>[This message has been edited by Lady M (edited August 10, 2001).]

Lady M,<BR>What a sad post....glad to hear you are doing ok now. Virginia Beach is a beautiful area.<P>I also don't understand the breakup of these relationships. We seem like as a society, we have made our marriages too easy to dissolve. The fact that we condone irresponsible behavior from everyone from the movies we watch to the actions of the President makes it all the more sad. <P>Marriage vows need to mean something...or we are going to have a lot of people growing up believing they don't. What a legacy.

Hard day today. Decided to let the sheriff serve my h with the restraining papers. Haven't heard from him since. He did respond to youngest daughter's e-mail...he said he was sorry Mom and Dad had hurt her....I still don't know how he thinks I have hurt the kids. That is getting so old. <P>Went to see my counselor today about 2 hours away. She thought I was doing the right thing. Explained the stages I would be going through in the next few weeks. This is so hard. I took my kids to the state fair last night. We had fun....but I missed having my h there. That is something we always used to do. I don't do the rides--I get too sick...so I was always the cheer them on person as h went with the kids on the rides. Last night K and K had to go by themselves. It was kind of sad. On a brighter note tho--we were having fun and stayed until way past their bedtime. H would never had allowed that. He can't stand to be around a lot of people for that long. He was also a stickler for schedules. <P>Well, don't know what is going to happen now. My family and friends keep telling me that I keep putting myself in situations where he can hurt me. Well, I guess he will be gone for good now.....why am I so sad?

M in M - How are you doing? Please write and give us an update on your situation.<P>