I'm worst at phone conversation, which is where I'm at now (travelling). When I'm home we have wonderful morning conversations where W gets to dump a days worth of stuff and I get to listen intently. I think it's the body language and eye contact that's missing on the phone.<P>I don't talk back very well, I guess. W says that's o.k. since conversation is her EN, not mine (lol). It just makes it hard for me to meet honesty and openess.<P>I think that was the major thing with OM. W says he was a chatterbox - but that was online. I'm much better online, but somehow I think that's cheating. (was that a pun?) <P>So.... My question is: How many feel that doing badly at the conversation EN was a big contributer to the A. I guess I'm wondering if OP's are universally better conversers than the BS's, or if other factors have interfered with good conversation between WS and BS.<P>Jeffers<BR>

It can go both ways. I would venture to say that OPs are good at getting attention. I certainly know Mrs Psyco Babble Rabbit was (hence the name). <P>My H is generally quiet. Gotta watch those types. But out there, OW talked his ears off, even H got tired of her ramblings. Hm...... makes you wonder... why????? Why do they put up with the inadequatcies of the OP but not with us? Familiarity breeds contempt? What did we do to deserve that? <P>How about you e-mailing your W? I did that to H and he likes it. <P>L.

Orchid,<P>Emailing works. I just sent one. We've had a flurry this evening. Too late to talk to her now, she's on her way to bed and it's still early out here (Palo Alto).<P>When I know I'm gonna talk to her I email less so I have something to say. ( but email is cheaper)<P>Thanks, you made me smile. (I don't know if you intended that... hmmm.... PBR- used to be my favorite beer when I was young and didn't know no better.)<P>Jeffers<P>

Orchid,<P>I am a very quiet person most of the time and it drives my W crazy, because she is a talker and wants me listen to every detail of her conversation. Over the years, after a while I would interrupt her and start my own conversation and she would get mad at me and now she doesnt even talk to be anymore.<P>------------------<BR>

Jeffers,<P>Good idea to use email. I have started that too. I feel more confortable in using it.<P>------------------<BR>

umpyourout,<P>I made the same mistake. Conversation was not that big a deal to me but it was one of her top ENs. When I quit paying attention ("Can't you see I'm trying to read the newspaper here?") she slowly drew apart. After many years of what must have been very painful isolation she found other outlets. <P>It took me a long time to convince her that I really WANTED to listen to her again. Now, I drop what I'm doing and focus on her. I can't for the life of me remember why I ever thought the newspaper was more interesting. <P>I find I can tell her almost anything via email. My goal is to someday be able to tell her those things while looking her in the eye.<P>Jeffers<P>

Jeffers,<P>I am glad I made you smile. Also good use of e-mails. I send jokes and stories I get during the day to H and stuff from here. <P>PBR beer - is that the one with the bear and the blue water? Hm..... you are dating yourself there..... LOL! <P>You are near me in CA (I'm in San Jose), Indecision is out this way also (he works in anta Clara). Starting to get a little group here. <P>Umpyourout,<BR>I hear you and even though I am a talker, I am usually pretty quiet around H. Why? I respected his space and did not want to be a bother. How do I get rewarded for that? Hm...... H goes out and meets Psyco Babble and she turns out to be a RABBIT to boot! <P>But I'd like to share a short story. My uncle (mom's brother) is a very very quiet man, he had a good sense of humor but unfortunately married a nice lady who loved to talk. So much in fact, that he would start a story and she would finish it. I mean all the time. Stories, jokes, conversations. You name it, she did it. Made the rest of us look like amateurs. But he loved her, right up to the end. Even though she caused divisions in the family and irked my dad and mom to no end, my uncle loved his wife. <P>My aunt past away last year and now my uncle is alone. I am sad for him because he was just used to his wife this way.<P>But if the chattering comes from another source other than our mates, it gets old and fast. Maybe not fast enough for us but fast. <P>I do hope that eventually there is a sort of compromise for you and your wife. It can be done. I am now learning to share more info with my H. I did not think he wanted to know stuff about me, but he says he does. ...... Sure would have liked to learn via an easier way..... oh well....<P>Take Care,<BR>L.<P><BR>

Orchid,<P>At this point in time, my W is wanting a seperation/divorse. I dont know what to do. I know i am the root of most of the problems in our relatioship. I now realise that I was in the fog for so many years. I cant convince her to try and work on our problems, she said, she tried for year to do that with me and I didnt listen... and now i dont know if it's too late.

Ump,<P>Would you like to setup your own thread so you can get more support and help for your situation? <P>I need to ask a few questions, I am not familar with your situation. Can you give it briefly again?<P>L.

Orchid,<BR>Sure, but i dont know how to do that?<P>What questions do you have for me?<P>M<BR><P>------------------<BR>

Dear Ump,<P>Go click on New Topic and fill in the boxes just like you did when you posted your reply. The only extra box is the one that allows you to type in your topic description.<P>If it is hard, I can do it for you but if you do it, you will be the one shown as the original poster.<P>I can do a search on your user and look for your story, this may allow you time to setup your thread. <P>I would like to help if I can and I am sure others will chime in. <P>L.

Ump,<P>I have some questions/comments also. I'll wait for your new thread. I searched for your posts so I guess I'm as caught up as possible.<P>Jeffers<BR>

Ok, it's done. Ask away.<P>------------------<BR>

Jeffers,<P>This thread took off in a different direction for a while. Let's steer it back to you. Do you have anymore thoughts, comments or questions?<P>By the way is PBR short for Pabst Beer? did you hear the joke posted a few weeks ago about the doctor's note and pabst beer?<P>L.

Orchid,<P>Sorry I left so abruptly. I have to leave the lab to eat dinner and then I'm logged out for the night, even though it's relatively early out here.<P>Yes, PBR is Pabst Beer. And, it dates me (and anyone else who knows what it is - lol).<P>And yes, I saw WAT's joke. For some reason, it took me hours to get it. I've since seen other versions like<BR>"Gina College called. Come pick up your Pabst Beer", or something like that. <P>I'm supposed to be on a plane right now. I'm feeling REALLY STRANGE and a bit lonely as well.<P>BACK TO THE QUESTION OF THE THREAD:<P>I've seen a few people here who have trouble with conversation AND their spouses refuse to accept written communication from them as well. Very SAD.<P>Most of my deep communications to my W have been through email or this forum. I'm pretty sure that doesn't meet her conversation EN. I don't know if it counts for openess and honesty either. Just don't know.<P>I want to know what people think about this.<P>Jeffers

Hi J,<P>Sorry the only way I can see your current post is if I post myself..... crazy machine!!!!!<P>So how are you doing?<P>L.

I figure that I must be terribly boring to my H, because he has no interest in things that I want to talk about. He doesn't talk to me much, either (too interested in the boob tube ), although he's done better at that over the past few years. Actually, when he does talk, he's usually ranting about something and all he wants to hear from me are remarks that agree with him.<P>And, relationship talks are a big no-no for him. <P>LC

Lady Clueless,<P>I hate the tube. Although, lately, we have it mostly set to the food channel so I only have to pay attention when "Iron Chef" is on.<P>I think W and I have very different conversation styles. She likes to "rant". Although, maybe it's more fair to say that she likes to talk about how she feels about people, events, things.... <P>I like investigative conversation. Especially when she talks about someone doing something she didn't like. Then I want to question why the person did such a thing and would W understand it (and change her mind) if she knew why? I think she always thought I was questioning her feelings about things, trying to disprove her, etc. And, maybe I was.<P>I would ALWAYS do this and our conversations ALWAYS ended unpleasantly. My brilliant solution was to quit conversing.<P>I realized a better solution was just to converse differently. I need to have those kinds of conversations with my colleagues, not with her.<P>So now, I validate what she says. I don't feel my integrity is on the line when I comment, "I guess she made you mad". Even if it wouldn't have made me mad.<P>Funny, I first saw this technique in the movie, "White Men can't Jump". The Mars/Venus book talks about the different conversation styles, too.<P>I realized I used to fight with my dad in the same way. Now, I'm able to recogize that he has an opinion without feeling obligated to debate it.<P>Relationship talks... hmmm. I'd love to have them. I'd hate to have them. Ya know - they scare me. I'm at the stage of trying to honestly answer questions like, "You seem quiet, is something wrong?" - "No, I'm o.k." (when I really mean "yes, yes, yes, I feel awful") Baby steps, I guess.<P>I guess I'm saying that "real" conversation takes work, at least until you figure out the "right" way to do it, then it gets easier with practice. For YOU to enjoy the conversation, HE has to do the work. <P>Orchid,<P>Thanks for checking up. So nice to have a mother hen around. I don't know how you keep track of us all.<P>Jeffers<P><BR>