Sorry for the long post. <p>I thought we may be entering into recovery, on Nov 20th She cracked from Plan B,
21/2 months after initiation, no letter simply I stopped communication. Divorce proceedings become very nasty. <p>On Nov 20th she is really struggling, Needs help w/ kids, can&#8217;t even bath them. Her father begs me to go over, I offer to pick up the kids, but no she wants me there. I resist but eventually but negotiate a deal, fire attorney and commit 4 sessions w/ Steve H. She agrees to 4 sessions but will not fire attorney however will suspend proceedings.<p>Statements and Conversations Since Tuesday November 20th<p>That Night, after kids asleep, She asked me to stay and help her with MB. Talked for 2.5 hrs.
Discussed what happened w/ OM #2, Said she can worry about meeting someone else&#8217;s needs.<p>I asked what about OM she said you don&#8217;t have to worry about that its over, she asked me about OW (Over since Oct). <p>Discussed her not being able to meet his needs, worried about the kids needs. <p>She asked me if I thought we were still soul mates. I replied yes, She while sitting curled up Fetal in the chair, contracted. <p>At one point she said, are you surprised I&#8217;m here, meaning at thing point, I replied, no but its earlier than I predicted. <p>Next day we agreed top 3 rules, No dating, her idea, honesty and no angry outbursts.<p>I asked her how she would meet her needs for intimacy and sex. Thanks to me that not a problem, referring to a Toy I brought her.<p>She asked me what I would be doing; I replied the same thing I did when we were married. (masturbate).<p>She said I would get angry again, I asked why will you be going out with OM again, &#8220;no&#8221; she replied, Anyone else? I Asked, No. Then Why I asked again, She said you just will.<p>Says her love bank has been open for deposits??? For along time. I hadn&#8217;t noticed, as she was busy with other men. <p>We were together for something a day or two later, Daughter made reference to OM, WS replied, You don&#8217;t have to worry about that Mommy wont be doing things with OM anymore. <p>She called every day for about a week. Discussed MB and asked a lot of questions.
One Conversation arguing about $$, typical. She Said all I want to be is in love.<p>Discussed Surviving, she said we would have to move. Promises me she did not have a P relationship with gill prior to leaving.<p>Grand mother dies, recommends I do something to build that relationship. <p>We talked about having to move, even discussed locations. <p>Keeps making reference to &#8220;We can always remarry&#8221;.<p>I&#8217;ll guess the week of the third she&#8217;s back with him. (2 weeks). Lied about it, saying she was talking to him. <p>Hired baby sitter Kids says before we went to Disney Weekend of the 8th & 9th , I have first right of refusal, she never called to offer, I have sent written warning from counsel regarding this. So why didn&#8217;t she offer it to me.

Someone called her on Nextel phone on Thursday, said something like &#8220;hea sweetie or sunshine,&#8221; she quickly walked away covering it up. Upon my questioning her Saturday AM. She told me they had been intimate again. Started to review our agreement, she denies agreement, saying I misunderstood. I hung up.<p>She has first session w/Steve H. on Dec. 7th, (she committed to 4 sessions before I broke plan B ), Me on the 17th. Joint session on Dec 27th.<p>Other issues, December 19 I get letter from my counsel, she has fired him. (Would not ask Judge for continuance). (She does not have $$ to hire another one).
Her father say&#8217;s, she would say, she fired him because she just wants peace. <p>Additionally, She has agreed to counseling or therapy per discussions with her father. <p>Per Steve H sent Plan B letter On Dec 19. Posted here.<p>How do I get past the feelings of anger associated with misrepresentations of her going back to OM. She is blatantly lying about it a in fact lying to 5 year old.<p>I get really angry and want to throw in the towel, I think, F#*%$ her, I&#8217;ll just go back to being a [censored]. Let her wallow in it. And when she needs me again, F*&# her, eat S*%# and die.<p>She is very confused but won&#8217;t admit it. Here&#8217;s what I think she wants, Wants to continue to explore other men on the hopes she will fall in love w/ someone else but she wants me around, in case she can&#8217;t find anyone. Well, I don&#8217;t sit the bench, never have never will,
especially with the career choice&#8217;s of the OM&#8217;s. Can&#8217;t hold my jock.<p>And what&#8217;s up with her memory loss?<p>So, how do I get past the anger? And although her going back does not surprise me, I&#8217;m angry at the lies. Ok if I can get past the anger, how do I get past the resentment and them how can I ever forgive? I have read the articles here, it hasn&#8217;t seemed to help. Steve has me reading Love Busters again.

It sounds like she clearly is not serious and is using you as a backup. It is a sad situation where she is unable to stop lying to you and exploring for other men. I do not see how you can possibly believe anything she says.
She is trying to manipulate you and you know it.
Do you really think you could be happy with this woman for the rest of your life? I wish you luck.

Bryan,<p>Thanks for the encouragement.

<p>[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: MMMMM ]</p>

Hi Dad,<p>Sorry you are on this rollercoaster again. You want to keep riding? I think not. So the biggie is how to get off? <p>Hm..... depends. For me, it was deciding that I did not want OW in my life and told H so. Setting boundaries. If he wanted to have contact he could have it (remember we can't tell them what to do?). But that contact (based on the equal fact that he can't tell me what to do - using fogese logic), he needed to be out of the house. Hm....... fogese logic allows them the best of both worlds but real logic does not. <p>So I combine the 2. Give him a taste of his fogese logic (he can't tell me what to do) and force the real logic (he moves out willingly or I put him out willingly). Tough love? Yes. <p>I have not left that stance. For the 1st time last night he wanted to talk. Guess what, I wanted to sleep. I heard him and he talked in short statements for about 15 minutes. Must have been hard for him. I answered briefly.....something new for me. I am finding out (slow learner here - LOL!!! ) that he does not always want my opinions so I am keeping my mouth shut until he asks me to respond. Very hard to do but I am learning. So this morning he asked me what I thought about what he said last night and I responded. Ok now the ball is back in his court and I just gotta wait. Will I have an H waiting for me when I get home? Maybe.... not sure. But if there has been any contact, he won't be. <p>I have been getting stronger. I think you need o be there also. Your W sounds like she is struggling. Her counselor appointments are important to be kept. Is her counselor also a psycologist? It maybe helpful it they can explore anyother areas contributing to her problems. The fact that you said she curled up in the fetal position says something. My H and his family do suffer from psycological issues. Of course the OW would prefer to blame all that on me but since I did not bring him into this world, I am not really the one who gave him those 'defective' genes that are scrambling his mind along with the fact that lack of parental training and love have scarred him emotional and mental stability. <p>Whether the OP is a nutcase or not, the fix is on the WS. All WS'. The BS and OP can only do so much, rememeber in fogese, you can't tell them what to do. So let them tell you. For some when they hear their crazy logic reverberating in their ears, they might begin to think....hey who was that stupid person talking? I shared a couple of experiences here with H about some BS and WS issues, he quickly said the WS were jerks. Hmmm....... easy to see in someone elses fog? It was worth sharing the story. See when they are away they may think about those stories and wonder, why am I being a jerk or jerkette?<p>Anyway, keep posting here, ok?<p>L.

Dad?<p>How are you doing?<p>L.

MYLife: In resopnse to your quote:"Try to remain positive. Christmas is coming soon, and that may help too"<p>Why will this help, the need for family?<p>Orchid, <p>Glad to hear you are doing well.
I am doing ok, very angry.<p>I'm in plan B,, no contact, so I can't implement your hybrid plan.
"Your W sounds like she is struggling."<p>She is very much so. <p>"Her counselor appointments are important to be kept. Is her counselor also a psycologist? " She has had one session w/ Steve H and has agreed to Psyco-therapy sessions, but they are weeks from commencing.
Next session w/ Steve is on the 27th w/ me. Need to control, no angry outbursts.<p>I am struggling with even wanting to do this, what MY Life said is very true. " it sounds like having many false starts is common. It's not fun, or nice, but it's common. The posts that I've read where this has happened, the person says it's like d-day all over again, which it technically is."
My most common thought of her is, " what a
F%&#$ing idiot." At least 10 times a day. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: dadoftheyear ]</p>

Hey, I just read some of your old threads. I remember more now...... <p>Looking back. What changes have you seen? Sometimes it helps me see where I've been to where I am now. <p>L.

Orchid,
changes in me or her or both?

Well, you can start with you, then progress to review changes in her. But I think you may need to see how you have changed. I think I see it already.... don't you? [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

Orchid,<p>Yea, I'm really bitter!
And after reading your last reply on ONOFF posts' I realize I have a lot more work to do on me.
Thanks for being there for me today. I'm east coast time and its past midnight. Gotta go 2 bed. <p>I'll look for your e-mail.<p>[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: dadoftheyear ]</p>

Hello dad,<p>Your anger is justified. So is your resentment. But don't expect this situation to resolve itself soon. In awhile the best path to take will become obvious. In the meantime, please remember that her actions are about HER problems, not a reflection on you.

It sounds like your wife has emotional problems like my DIL who is the WS. DIL has periods when she cannot even cope with my grandson. She calls my son crying because she is so distraught. Yet her choice to maintain contact with OM only adds to her stress, but she won't stop. She is an emotional wreck. Their counselor tells them that until her personal emotional problems improve, the healing of the marriage cannot begin. My son is worn out. It's been nine months now, but he's still hanging in there. I hope you can too.<p>I know what you mean about the lying. A lot of people think that the breach of trust by lying is more devastating than the A. You deserve to be angry. Maybe it will help some to accept that your W is sick emotionally. Freely acknowledge that you ARE angry and that you have a right to be. Vent your anger here. You have to acknowledge it and let it out.<p>I think your anger will fade once you reach the acceptance that you can't fix your W's problems. That you can't make her tell the truth. That you can't make her stop seeing OM. All you can do is be an honorable man and do the best you can to support your kids through this.<p>My DIL moved to another state nine months ago, taking my grandson with her. The OM was there, an old BF. My son recently gave up his job and home moved there to be with her and try to save his M. After making this sacrifice, he finds out that DIL and OM were together just four days earlier. He felt such anger, and he should have.<p>I read a book called Forgive and Forget. I don't remember the author. I gave the book to my son so don't have it handy. Basically, it says to forgive to preserve YOUR mental and spiritual health. To forgive, to this author, means to say, "I am making a conscious decision to release my anger against this person." He also says that forgiving is a process, not a single act. Expect to have to release and release until the anger is gone. Obviously, this is no easy task. He also says that forgiveness does NOT mean that you excuse, tolerate, or condone the person's deeds.<p>Keep in mind, too, that your W is in denial about the damage she is doing to your family. It is a form of self-preservation for her. Until she decides to face the consequences that her choices have caused, all you can do is take care of yourself and stay healthy so that you can cope better. <p>Only time can make the anger and resentment fade. Only time will bring forgiveness. Your feelings are normal, and they really will lessen with time. Be strong with your Plan B. I hope that your W will get help, and you can rebuild your marriage.<p>Take care,
Estes

Estes,<p>Thanks so much for your advice, I have heard of this book, I guess it's time to buy it. I'll make it my xmas present to myself.<p>My concern is that when I let it all go, I'm done, and then I know the marriage is over. Pdrhaps that is best.
I'de like to do that know but I have a preminition that I will share later today. My last preminition cane true. I'll post both later.

Hello, <p>Here is a link to Amazon.com for the book. I found a lot to think about in it. I didn't agree to everything, but I would definitely recommend it.<p>Forgive and Forget by Lewis Smedes<p>You say that you hestiate to let it go because the marriage would be over for you. My son told me that, in fact the original marriage WAS dead once the A statred. However, he intended to learn all he could about how to build a new one. Now, it might not work out the way he wants it to, but he has come to terms with the fact that his W is the only one to make herself want to stay in the marriage. All that he can do is learn to be the best man, best human being, best dad he can be. He is angry, he is devasted emotionally, he has given up is job, and his W still has not committed to be his wife again.<p>BUT, he - HE - is OK. He is a good person, faithful to his vows and obligations, and he WILL have a good life. It may not ultimately be with his W, but it will happen. This will happen for you, too. But you will hurt a lot before this is all resolved.<p>Accept you pain. Let it out. Pray a lot. Your best course of action will show itself in time.<p>I'll check back in after work,
Estes

dad - ditto Estes. Very wise advice.<p>I can't add much to what others have advised. Hold the moral high ground and take care of your kids. For them, as with your wife, try to practice PTC; patience, time, consistency.