We have caused each other so much pain. Our "open relationship" was the most unbelievable thing in the world. Imagine the excitement of sex, then imagine as soon as it's over your heart is broken. Multiply this 100X and I think this may be where we are at right now.

I unknowingly had an EA with her friend a year or so ago. I did not realize it was an EA until I read HN/HN. I did recognize that I was having inappropriate thoughts and feelings about the OW and somehow crushed those thoughts/feelings and began to resent her friend. Several months ago I had sex with OW and did not tell wife dispite our agreement to always be open and honest with each other. I did not tell her because I knew she found OW a threat, and she specifically told me NOT to be with her. I have no idea why I did, I was physically sick afterward, puked in the bathroom of a gas station at what I had just done, and what it would do to my wife if she ever found out. I told her about both on D-Day #2.

As I said, wife was very jelous of OW, that's why it caught me completely off guard when she started pressuring me a few months ago to sleep with her. I refused for a couple months, knowing her feelings and unsure what was happening or what she may be thinking. Then wife arranged for OW and I to be alone together and told us both it was ok. We did.

Same weekend OW and I had encounter that wife set up we swapped with OM and his fiance. OM was supposed to be my best friend. Wife now tells me that she fell in love with him that weekend, blames me for it because "I gave her away". They are continuing EA now, unsure about PA. She admits EA, denies PA, he denies both. I think they were involved in an EA long before that, unsure about PA. Is she using this as an excuse?

In the past few months wife has bought me new clothes, had me change my hair style, given me tips on "dating" and finding women, even went so far as putting my picture and ad on a web site. She admits doing all of this because she wanted me to find someone and leave her, she thought it would have been easier that way. She didn't realize how much she means to me, and how much I Love Her. She even went so far as saying that she set me and OW up because she wanted us to fall in love because OW would be a good step mom to our children.

Maybe it's a coincidence (sp?) but OM has same clothes I have.... 2 pairs of same shoes, same tie I got for Christmas. I don't think wife could have bought them for him, it would have looked sorta suspicious to his fiance I would think. Is this just a freak thing, or what does it mean?

I know I have been extremely longwinded here, but I do believe I have all of the skeletons out of the closet now. I/we have many issues to work out, mine being sexual, hers being that of victim. I'm not sure she will ever be able to forgive me for the hurt I've caused her. For the first time I'm beginning to wonder if our marriage is over....

We both feel so ashamed of the life we have lived the past few years, the things we have done are disgusting and immoral. For the life of me I cannot understand why we traveled down this road, or why neither one of us told the other we were hurting so bad because of it. We both hid the pain because we thought it was making the other person happy, when in reality we were both slowly dieing..

If there's anyone out there who has been both a w/s and a b/s at the same time, how do you deal with it? I want to start a new life and begin all over again. She wants out now, divorce is the only thing she can see. She says I've caused her too much pain, she can't even stand to have me touch her. She hates me, I'm sure of it..

Concentrate on your personal healing FIRST. When you are healthy, you will be better prepared to be in a healthy relationship.

You are really not in great emotional or spiritual shape yourself.

She does not hate you. She hardly knew you!! Both of you were hiding out while married. Virtual strangers had an equal access to physical intimacy.

Do you (right now) think you know how to be emotionally and spiritually intimate??? I doubt you are capable. Heal yourself. You are not ready for couples healing. If you love your wife ... you will focus on YOU .... because that's where it all starts.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Pepper,
It has taken me a while to realize that I have to fix myself. I've known it, but it's been hard to do. I'm really working on that now, I'm seeing a counselor, trying to find a church and talking to God every day.

I'm also trying to keep a handle on things, shrink says I'm a Narcisist (SP?) and have obsessive compulsive disorder. Combine the 2 and I go head over heels 110mph into anything new for me. So, with that in mind I'm trying to slow myself down and take things one step at a time.

I think your right, I don't know how to be intimate right now, in any way. I think I'm thinking so clearly, then 2 days later I look back and ask myself what the H*** I was thinking.

Baby steps, baby steps, baby steps... that's what I keep telling myself..

Can anyone make anything of this one? I don't know why but it's really bugging me. That, along with the fact that he has my wifes picture on his lap top as a screen saver/background.

Suggestions, advise, thoughts?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TM94:
<strong>
Maybe it's a coincidence (sp?) but OM has same clothes I have.... 2 pairs of same shoes, same tie I got for Christmas. I don't think wife could have bought them for him, it would have looked sorta suspicious to his fiance I would think. Is this just a freak thing, or what does it mean?
.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Thoughts:

The minutiae of your situation .... (OM's clothing... what he has as a screen saver) is NOT what is wrong with your relationship. The fact that this "is really bugging me" .... indicates that you may have a tendency to avoid the really important issues and focus of the unimportant details. Even if you figure out why OM's clothing resembles yours so much ... you've gotta ask yourself what that knowledge is going to do to help you grow as a person or help you become a better husband.

This is a detour issue ... and likely unimportant as far as you figuring out who you are and what you did to contribute to this mess .

I realize this is difficult for you ... but I strongly suggest you concentrate your energies on things that you can actually effect a change (within YOURSELF) for the better.

On the other thread you asked me what I meant by "my opinion, feel free to toss away". I was recently made aware by another poster that I sometimes sound harsh or too pushy ... If you are not able to listen to my advice, if it is too harsh for you at the moment ... I offer you the opportunity to simply ignore me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> THAT'S what I meant.

Baby steps my man .... this is a long road.

Peppppppppper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Pepper,
Thanks for the wake up call. Your right, there's nothing I can do about it, so I need to channel my energy somewhere else, like fixing myself and being happy. This will not be easy, it's on my mind more and more. But I know your right, I cannot change any of it.

I appreciate your strait forward comments. I don't like sugar coating anything, and I don't like it when others do for me either. You don't ever have to worry about hurting my feelings, I'm pretty thick skinned.

Thanks again..

Whenever your mind starts racing and you're trying to solve everything at one time ....

say the serenity prayer ... it works for me (us, actually Mr. Pepper and I say it together)

P <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

TM94,
I am sorry for what you are going through. I have some friends who have an open marriage. It is very hard on the wife but she puts up with it because that's what H wants. Very scary. I agree with pepper. You guys don't really know each other. I think you are on a good track.
Plan A. Don't give up. Show your wife what a great partner you can be while you are healing yourself.
Are you 2 still in contact? If so what is that like?
Fog is scary and it sounds like you stepped out of yours now wait for her.
Let us know,
Hugs,
Layli

Pepper,
Thanks, when I feel myself getting out of control I do pray. I'm not familiar with the serenity prayer, but I talk to God and he calms me. This board also helps A LOT!

Layli,
I can't stress enough, TALK TO YOUR FRIEND! I would put money on it that her husband has VERY mixed emotions about their arrangement also. That was our problem, we both kept doing it when we didn't want to because we thought we were making the other happy. In reality it destroyed our marriage, and the better part of my wifes life. I'm getting myself better now, so I look at it as a good thing. I wish it never would have happened, but at least now I can deal with the issues I never realized I had.

We are still in contact; she cannot afford to leave on her own yet, I'm sure that's the only reason she's here.

D-Day is just past one month now, and it's steadily getting worse. No more I Love You's, VERY infrequent hugs, no kisses. I think she's slowly weaning me if that makes any sense. The past 2 weeks have been very full of ups and downs. This week was 80% down with her being VERY angry at me. That was when she told me it made her sick when I touched her, did nice things for her (notes, cards, etc), sent her our usual daily "Good Morning" e-mails, called her on the phone, touched her, etc. This all happened right after she finally admitted EA with OM.

Last night was a rough start, but thanks to a good plan A and the Lords strength and guidance we ended up talking until 2:30am. Then this morning we talked for another hour or so, even took a shower together.

Tonight she opened up a little more, asking questions about OM's feelings, the "Male Point of View", etc. It was VERY nice. She also thanked me for not trying anything in the shower, said it was sweet, and SHE held MY hand for a while.

I tried to be very general answering questions, saying I could only say what he told me, I couldn't speak for his feelings.

I spend a couple of hours with some friends tonight, they wanted to take me out and cheer me up. She encouraged me to go, said it was very good for me and I needed it.

While I was gone she talked to her mom. I sensed a step backward when I got home. I think her mom is encouraging her. For a while I thought she liked me again, now I'm back to thinking she hates me because I got her daughter pregnant as a teen ager. Not sure what to do about that one, I'm sure there is nothing I can do, but it bothers me. And, I'm SURE she hasn't told her mom about OM yet.... I guess when you only get one side of the story it does look pretty bad.

Memorize this part to repeat to yourself:

GOD, grant me the serenity

to accept the things
I cannot change,
Courage to change the

things I can, and the
wisdom to know the difference.

And this is the rest of the prayer:
Living ONE DAY AT A TIME;

Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardship as the
pathway to peace.
Taking, as He did, this

sinful world as it is,
not as I would have it.
Trusting that He will make

all things right if I
surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy

in this life, and supremely
happy with Him forever in
the next. Amen
Reinhold Neibuhr-1926

Or also memorize this:

Deliver us, Lord, from every evil,
and grant us peace in our day,
In your mercy keep us free from sin
and protect us from all anxiety.....

<small>[ January 11, 2003, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Susan ]</small>

Dear friend ....

It may comfort you to know that I am praying for you and your wife as well. I imagine Susan is too.

.... although, it is awkward saying "God, watch over TM94" .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Sometimes I call you "Tim" just to make it simpler. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ January 11, 2003, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

TM94,
I have to ask. What did you think would come of an "open relationship"? I am not surprised that you are in the situation you are in now.
Michael

Susan,
Thank you. I have heard part of that prayer, just didn't realize it was really a prayer. I find myself receiting it often.

Pepper,
.... although, it is awkward saying "God, watch over TM94" .... Sometimes I call you "Tim" just to make it simpler.
You get the SMILE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> award for the week. Again I find myself thanking you, haven't had a real smile in what seems like forever.

Michael,
Looking back I'm not sure what we were thinking. We both felt that our love for each other was so strong that our physical bodies could part, we could share things that we thought at the time were the most intimate moments possible. Afterward we would talk, she would always say that she felt it brought us closer together because we could talk about things that she could not talk to anyone else about.

You would be amazed at the number of people that live this lifestyle. People you would never even think of, very prominant people. Looking back I see it as the difference between the "Worldly" people and the "Godly" people if that makes any sense. I can't really say because I'm still trying to figure it out myself.

I want to thank all of you for your prayers, I truly believe they are helping!

OK, heres the UPDATE:
This morning she gets home from work and can't fall asleep. We talk for a little while and she makes some comment about she won't talk to me anymore about OM because I can't handle it, and references my "Break Down" the other morning. Now that was interesting! We both have VERY different views of what happened. She says I was a mess when she walked in the door and just started bawling my eyes out. I remember it as her coming in making spiteful and down right MEAN remarks, then feeling guilty and giving me a hug. I will admit, I did cry when she gave me a hug, couldn't help it.

Anyway... we're still talking, she mentions something about being in her "detached" state so she wouldn't bawl her eyes out at work. When she's like this she can be very mean and hurtful and she knows it. She didn't want to come out of her detachment because she knew what was waiting for her, so she kept talking to me despite the exhaustion I could see in her eyes.

I told her I knew she wasn't going to go to sleep with me there, she agreed. Said she didn't want to burden me anymore. I assured her I was here for her, she said she didn't want me and I left the bedroom.

Spent the day cleaning house, (even mopped the kitchen), made dinner and let her sleep all day. Went in to wake her up for work and SURPRISE #1!! She rolled over and layed her head on my legs! She just lay there for about 5 minutes letting me pet her hair until I had to get up to turn off dinner.

Dinner was nice, whole family at the table. Some mild conversation then she got ready for work. On her way out she asked me if I would do a couple of things for her, I said of course, she promised to "Give me some" if I did. I told her I didn't want it until she was ready. Then SURPRISE #2!! She gave me a hug before she left!

Right now I'm feeling pretty good, but I'm so afraid of what's going to happen next. I'm not sure what this is, but it seems to be happening too fast. I'm afraid she's going to turn 180 degrees and I'm going to crash again...

Sorry this was so long folks, but I wanted to get this out there so somebody could analyze it and tell me if I'm going coo coo or what.