Yesterday I opened our checking acct. statement and saw a $256 debit purchase on 2/13 at what looked like a Jewelry store.

I called inform. & got the # and sure enough it is.

H is laid off, money is real tight, but he's spending $ on lavish gifts for the OW who has everything(remember, Mercedes SUV?)

So I called him, told him I need groceries, was there any $ in checking to use. He said yes, go ahead, I said the $250 jewelry purchase didn't set you back too much?

He of course goes off on me, who do I think I am going through the his bills(my name too!!idiot), and when I make more the $6,ooo p/yr, I can tell him how to spend his $$(I guess taking care of his 4 kids, & home & working, don't count, so that he can travel to make the big bucks) and blah blah blah.

Now the interesting part, big time LB, I know, but I call OW. And guess what she is "nice Person", at least seems to be, we talked for 45 minutes, He called her 3 times while we were talking, and each time she took the call, she said he was beside himself angrier & angrier, but we cont. to talk. Of course she is sleeping w/my husband, but these are some of things she said...

-I've tried to break it off, but he comes back begging
-I thought when he got laid-off, he'd just go back home
-I'm not even divorced yet, I just want to be on my own for awhile(w/3 kids), I lived w/my parents till I was 27 and then got married.
-My husband is a control freak, and we have plenty of $,but I just want him to spend more time at home(should I send her HN/HN?, lol,)He treats me like a queen, sometimes I think I should just take him back!!
-UPset that WH bought her exp. jewelry when we are on the verge of bankruptcy, mouths to feed, etc.
She says she didn't want it.
-she just thought she'd play the field for awhile, her husband is begging for her to take him back, her friends & cousins are trying to set her up w/dates, etc.

We talked about our kids, agrees that its way too soon to consider meeting them, she's keeping hers out of the situation(WH insisting on a meeting soon)

Anyways her most important statement:
"How can I get rid of him(WH)do you have any suggestions?"!!!!!!!

So it appears that WH is ready to ditch his M & family for a Woman who is nowhere near making a commitment, though she admits to having feelings for him. His little fantasy is just that a fantasy!
WH paints a picture to me that within a few mos. he will be "settled"(meaning w/OW) and our kids will be coming to visit w/them! She sounded like that was news to her!

Never talked to WH after phone call w/OW last night.

This morning I wake up to NO HEAT, temp. outside is -15*, 4 yr. old is sick w/cough & cold, so I decide to stay home from work.

I call WH, guess what, he owes $400 for fuel oil, and so we never got our last scheduled delivery!!!!Gee $250 would have been a start!!

He calls and order & pays for a minimun 100 gal. delivery, that should be good for a few days only in this temp.! then calls me back to tell me and starts to spew his garbage:

-Nice try to break us up, she was only being nice to you because she doesn't know what else to say to you.

-I'm coming up thurs. to talk to a lawyer, claims appt. was already scheduled days ago.

-Claims he went over later and F#@*ed her for 45 minutes, so at least he knows how to stay warm!

-threatened me w/ a restraining order

-threatened to get custody of 2 youngest kids

-Told me start making more $$ cuz I was going to need it..

-and on & on, nasty garbage, you've heard the drill before I'm sure.

So after this call I call OW again! I know, I'm a glutton for punishment...

She claims," no way, he didn't come over, we just talked on the phone, he's pretty angry, I told him I think we should not see each other for a while, but anytime I've tried that in the past, he pushes, I can't believe he's saying those things to you, he's never said anything bad about you, and What, you have no heat?! He hasn't paid the fuel bill?! Do you have food?" She says she doesn't know what to do anymore, everyone is telling her she's crazy to be with WH, she's not even sure how serious she is about him.. I just said well I just hope you both know what you're doing, before it's too late. Too many lives are at stake. Too many children involved.
Both conversations, calm, rational,(BIZARRE!)

So at this point, it could be a real turning point, if it all crashes for him,
but not holding out much hope. WH feels that too much has happened, we could never get it back anyways, and that he wants D with or without OW.

I'm looking at framed photo of him w/ our oldest son, he looks so gentle and loving, smiling, happy, handsome....What the hell went wrong... THIS IS A NIGHTMARE!!

I'm calling to put the house on the market, before we lose it...I'd better start thinking ahead...plan for our future without him....

IT'S A SAD DAY.

Hello Learnin,

How long have you been in Plan A? Maybe it's time for Plan B! Your husband is emotionally abusive and not only that but he is physically jeopardizing your children with spending money on lavish gifts instead of proper heat and shelter for you and YOUR KIDS! I think you need to talk to a lawywer ASAP if not only to protect your kids financially. He is angry and will do whatever it takes to hurt you because you are ruining his fantasy, this is typical but he is hurting your children far more by not supporting them with proper finances, when this happens then it's time for an alternate plan because he has no thought of your children's well being.

I know you're right. I'm going to contact my lawyer and get the ball rolling.

Only been in Plan A for a few weeks, he noticed the difference, was saying things like I'm not sure I want a D, and I don't want to go out on a "Date"(when I asked if he wanted to go out), but that doesn't mean I won't change my mind."

I was ever so hesitant about being hopeful, but now, it seems so horribly wrong...

But I'll do what I have to to take care of my children.

re the ow, if she is really as you presented I wonder why she did not offer to return the jewlery so you could get the money back....or offer to pay for it. That is what a responsible person caught in the middle would do. Keep in mind you must consider she is playing you too...not necessarily maliciously, she may believe what she tells you, but be lieing anyways thinking it is 'best" for you.....sociopathic personalities (if she is one) are very very believeable...I would want independent verification to be sure of what she is saying, and I would ask her to pay for, or return the jewelery that would tell you something about her.

As for you H, he is clearly out of control, but that is because you have not played "fair" *rueful smile* good for you. Whether he will come around, who knows, but I personally think you did good learnin.

Thanks Lurking,
OW seems genuine, but I'm careful not to take too seriously all that she says.
I wonder, should I contact her and ask her to return the jewelry to me, as a gesture of what's right?
WH said this morning that she gave him a check for 1/2 the price of the gift, but I can't believe anything that he says.
I just can't believe that I am in the middle of this soap opera/nightmare.
How can a person change so much, almost overnight.
He certainly is trying his hardest to make me out to be the bad guy.
I don't intend to be the victim here much longer.
It may take a long time, but I know that eventually, he will have HUGE REGRETS!!
It's too bad that it will be at the expense of his children, and too late to save his family from so much pain.

Hi, Sorry your in so much pain , and so far I agree with Lurking - I contacted OW When this all started I did the phone call and thought she sounded some what the victom (NOT) she was crying and telling me she tried to let him go and he begged , THAT is a DIG to make you feel she is the greatest thing on earth (read between the lines) Her husband is beggeing her and treats her great why the A?
And she wants to play the feild ok tell her she should of found someone elses BALL to play with (sorry so pissed)

Ok he is angry , yes you are messing up his lies and storys he wants to tell , go protect your kids and get a lawyer for advice .

Tape his phone convo . with you his threats to you , and all the unpaid bills ,

This may very well blow over some times belive it or not this exposing A can be very good .

I would go straight to expossing the rest tell family and freinds .

YOU can delay any D .

He is mad now but when everything comes to light it might snap him back into reality , it take time . Now you need to settle down . Do NOT buy into everything the OW has to sa she don't want to make herself look any worse .

And one more thing she thought after he got laid off he would come home . OH she was just sticking around with a M man to HELP kill off alittle bit mare of his M .

YOU BE STRONG HE IS WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't get sucked into his blame game !!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I would ask her to return the jewelery/pay for it, and any other "money" given specifically to her. But I would not say as a gesture of what's right. I would simply tell her these were marital assets, you did not agree with giving them away, and would appreciate her returning your property. If she resists, you might say (calmly and matter of factly)you are also looking into legal action re your H which would include recovery of marital assets, and she may be sued in that process. Saying you don't wish to cause her any trouble, but cannot spare her the consequences of her behaviour, as you need to protect your family and kids. If she has any sense at all she will negotiate a settlement with you, if not, then you can pretty well be sure most of what she has told you is lies, and you are in fact being played by them both. I would also reveal the affair to everyone in both families...again not ever mean-spiritedly, or maliciously, just a matter of fact, citing your need for emotional support, which cannot be given if people do not know what you are dealing with.

As well, don't ever let anyone dictate your choices by their anger. He may indeed do hurtful things, personally and legally, but as long as you remain calm, and reasonable in YOUR efforts, the angry person (who is simply manifesting poor coping skills) will respect you for it eventually. If not, then you know they are not safe, and you better off keeping them at a distance (ie legal seperation or divorce). Just be sure you are being fair, and give your H opportunity to negotiate at each step. I would also make it clear to him your discussions with ow are your business, he cannot dictate to you as human being who to interact with (nor you him, ie the ow). But I would be very careful about discussing your relationship (with H) with the ow, isn't that exactly what makes you mad about him doing so?

<small>[ March 04, 2003, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: LurkingAbout ]</small>

Oh WOW! Bits and pieces of this sound like the end of my A. He was talking about "forever" and I was like <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , i'm not even sure I want to date you anymore.

If she's that nice a lady, i'd ask her for the jewelry back. Maybe you can return it and get some of the things you need for you and the kids.

The other question that I wondered about when reading this is - what do you want? You talked about what he might want. Realistically, what do you want?

Thanks for all the advice.
The affair has been exposed for weeks now.

H accuses me of a "smear campaign" against him.

My response, "if there is a way to sugarcoat the fact that you're leaving your wife & kids for another woman and her kids, then I'm unaware of it. The facts speak for themselves!"

I'm not sure what I want anymore, for so long I really thought I wanted him back, now I'm not so sure anymore. I want the "old" H back(improved of course), I don't recognize this guy.

I'm going to call OW today and ask for jewelry back. Will let you know how it goes.

Called OW this afternoon and "requested" that she return the jewelry as it is considered Marital Assets, unless she'd like to be dragged into a legal mess.

She has returned the necklace to WH, according to him. He has been nasty on the phone, saying he tried to do this the "nice" way, I'm a wacko, Don't I have any pride?, He's trying to portray the A as "solid" but it's obvious that it's not.
I'm going to end up with nothing....according to WH.

I also called OW's H(they are separated) and informed him of the A, even though WH had tried to tell me that he already knew, I just wanted to make sure. There is a lot of money involved here. He said he appreciated the call, had his suspicions, and if there was anything he could do for me to call.

I let him know the whole jewelry, no heat story. and that WH plans on moving in with OW & her kids within a few months, OW's H didn't sound too pleased at that!! Let him know that WH is BROKE!

Needless to say, WH is pretty pissed off. Oh well, I expected as much.

Is this the point that I accept that it's over, and that it's on with the D?

It seems that's all that's left, how could we ever move forward from here in the M?

Things seem impossible. Feedback please!

UPdate:
WH just called my sister, all quiet & humble like,saying that he is concerned about me, thinks I may have gone over the edge, that I may do something to hurt myself. Sister responds, gee I just talked to her, she sounded pretty upbeat to me.
WH says, she just withdrew all the $$ from "my" checking acct., sister replys, you mean "both of yours".

OW just called me, flippin out because I called her H, "what am i trying to prove, I thought you wanted your H back, why do you want him to hate you, why are you making it worse. I replied, define worse, worse than what? She tells me, you don't know anything about my M and why I chose to leave, I replied, and you don't know anything about mine except what WH has "chosen" to tell you, but up until two mos. ago, I had no clue that he didn't love me.
She's concerned I"ll work myself into a nervous breakdown, I replied, thanks for your concern, neither one of you seemed concerned about me when you started the A!

Oh man, the tangled web we weave.
I suppose there is no need to PLan A at this point?
What's the use.

OK - slow down and take a deep breath , your emotions are high and wild ( been there) . Now calm down .

I personaly think anwser to your question is yes , you still can have a marriage . Oh not right now this is the very angry H time sides of him you may never have seen before.

You have to understand he will blame you for everything and anything not to face the fact that HE brought this on himself (DENIAL)

You at this point need to be in control JMO .

Your on a high right now and fighting mad , remeber this is a rollercaoster of emotions.

M can recover if both people want it to , when you are both ready . If that is what you want and H wants .

After this it will start to take affect the fog will start to lift , not tonight but in time.

If anything you read here is true once A is exposed to light it may take 4 to 6 mons. for WS to come around . IF THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT .

When I first went through this someone said to me it takes time and time is also your enemy.

Waiting is the worst thing in the world and pactience well I HATE that word.

Be Strong and healthy for you and your kids .

You're right! I am feeling a high right now, and I need to slow it down. I know that they are both beside themselves tonight and that makes me feel good.
WH called "again", wanting to know if I was going to redeposit the $$ in the checking so that the checks he sent out for bills today wouldn't bounce. I said "of Course" I would.
Then he got nasty, I said no matter what happened, even if I ended up in a 2 rooom apt. collecting food stamps, I would still have more than him. He laughed. I said I'll have my kids & family, my pride and dignity and lots of good friends.
He said, "I'm getting laid more", I replied, and I'm getting more hugs & kisses from our kids. Goodbye.
It's obvious from his remarks that he is getting desperate, I haven't seen him this angry and such garbage coming out of his mouth.
I've got cookies in the oven, I'm going to enjoy them with the kids. Breathin....

Learnin

You my friend are one brave soul...

I'm with you...gloves come off when my children's basic needs arent' being met for the sake of a trinket....

Seek serenity and peace...and warm cookies and milk...!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
ARK

Good Girl now next time just be plain old nice , you have all the good in life it it is meant to be it will .

One more thing :

GOD GRANT ME
SERENITY -to accept the things I can not change

COURAGE- to change the things I can and

WISDOM- to know the difference.

Just something to think about , and anyone who would give the love of his childern up or make them second is not worth anything.

Enjoy the cookies and kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Learnin, time to go to social services and explain the no heat, sick child, h taking all assets and leaving you nothing.
It's my understanding that when you do this, they will help you and go after his [censored] for the funds back if he is working! They may also provide you with legal services. Time to get interim support started so it's taken right out of his pay before he sees it.
I say this to anyone wanting to screw up my life. "Mess with me, you might just get pay back by legal suit, mess with my kids and I'll take care of you myself"!
This guy is a jerk class A #1!
Don't take this sitting down. When he says he's getting laid lots, tell him she has poor taste for Sh--! And that she doesn't want him because he can't get it up for her enough!
Put him down and don't feel guilty! As for wanting him back? No way in hell when he can let his children suffer while he buys the bit-- jewelry!
Good riddance I'd say!
When he comes crawling back, kick him out to the curb. He's gone way over the edge I say.
LouLou

I know that WH has crossed the line....very very deep in FOG, so I thought.

Now comes the confusion regarding MB philopsophy and some responses to this thread.

I have read some pretty scary and gritty stuff that WS are capable of, and have always seen support for the BS to hang in there, let the WS hit bottome, let the fog lift, etc. etc...

Now I'm getting advice here that says, don't take him back, he's a creep, etc. (Friends & Family give same advice, that's why I came here, they don't understand, the major change in WH over the past few mos., he is NOT the same person!!)

So, Do I hold out for his fantasy world to collapse(and enjoy the show), it seems to be crumbling fast, and see if the "real" H emerges from the Fog?

Or do I consider this the last straw, no hope, he's a dirtbag, end of story?

I was waiting for something to stir things up, to move things forward, and now that it has, I'm hearing "let it go now, it's useless"

Please respond!!

I have responded to you in support of your M if that is what you want and told you that it just is a long process , Yes I have the same problem here at MB .

I came for the same reason , because I want my M and support not people telling me the minute it gets tough get going .

If YOU want your M and need a place to vent then you are to come here , have your plan read your material and put it to work ,everyone has a different level of tolerance and you choose yours .

I belive this is just the beging , and you should (if you want ) see the fantasy die out now just stay protecting your children and your health through it all it is not easy .

I personaly would not exchange nasty comments with H at this point .
Isn't there a saying you catch more flys with HONEY ( or something like that )

Be prepared for his mind game your not dealing with a rational person right now .

If he calls to tell you he is getting laid , move on to when do you want to visit the kids .?

gO BACK TO PLAN IF YOUR IN PLAN B NOW DO IT KEEP IT ABOUT KIDS AND HOUSE RELATED CONVO .

And never forget you your PLAN A Others here with more experance can help with what to say better then I . Let his anger pass don't let him get you wrapped up in it .

I think WS want you to hate them it is easier for them , it is harder to hurt and to keep being mean to someone who shows you love and inderstanding .JMO I understand about wanting to save your M and him not being the man right now that your use to .

But then again I have been called a doormat , so I am only giving you support if you know in your heart you want your M and love your H and think that you can get past this and forgive him if he comes back . Because then the hard work begins.

Thanks 3isacrowd,
I know that WH is being a real a@#hole right now, and the hardest part of that is knowing that it is just not the "real" him.
Some people argue that if he's capable of doing and saying these things then it is the "real" him.

I just don't know anymore, but I do know the following:

-I will be Ok, and I will always be here for my kids!
-Eventually I will know if my WH is worthy of being my Husband, BUT I do not have to make that decision NOW!
-No matter where I end up financially, housing, etc. I will still have more than WH, I will have my kids,family, friends,pride & dignity!!
-I will have good days and bad days, but who doesn't? I will get through them all, one at a time.
-So bring it on, I'm ready!!

Thanks for everyones support, I know everyone means well and I'm a big girl, please don't hold back, it's good for me to hear what I need to hear!!

Learnin,

My advice is to not give up on him..but to definately protect you with boundaries...

Take a non-emotional stand that you did what you thought you had to do to make sure your children's needs are being met...no more and no less...

Don't power struggle it....
I don't think you accept things are over...

His fantasy is crashing in on him...
Advise you not to take him back...UNTIL he begins to process his actions and their direct affect on others....

3is post is right on...
He is scrambling and lashing out like a wounded person..don't rise to his bait...
stay calm...emotions in check...
get documentation on his actions..consider taping phone calls from him...
and let him flounder...and attempt to keep in control as much as you can...

I think people want you to protect youself...more than give up at this point...

this still has to play itself out...
ARK