Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,394
T
Topie25 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,394
Where do I start? I guess in order of appearance, would be good. This is VERY LONG, as I'm adding all the details I can, and will be printing this out and using this as my report to my CAS worker.

On Wednesday, my MIL called to confirm that she and FIL would be coming by on Saturday May 10th, at 10am (give or take, due to traffic and weather) to pick up the boys to supervise visitation with stbxH. I was a wreck, b/c as you may know, I do NOT approve of my IL's as supervisors, as they are not unbiased.

Saturday morning came, and I had the boys packed and ready to go. IL's arrived at 10:15am, and started getting the car seats into their minivan. During this time, I explained to them what is supposed to be going on, and stated some facts, and asked a few questions.

I asked if they knew what THEIR ROLE in supervising visitation was. MIL looked at me as though I was stupid, and said, "er, role?". So I told her how as SUPERVISORS it is not their responsibility to look after the boys... that's H's role. Their role is to ensure that H is doing things appropriately. For example, if the twins need a new "bum" (diaper), it's H who does it. If they need juice or snacks or meals, it's H's responsibility to provide them. If they'll be outside, H must buy sunblock (we're so fair and burn easily). And most importantly, I asked that she let H know that once I get my own vehicle, and install the carseats, I will NOT be transferring them back and forth for visitations. With that in mind, H will be responsible for purchasing his own. (I thought I was being nice to let him know ahead of time, so that he can budget for it... yah! I know... budget? MY H??? LOL).

I also informed them of how all of the boys are familiar with using "Time Out" as their form of discipline (yes, even the twins now! ), but that if Alex (twin B) is put on time out, you have to stay with him, b/c he's a sneak and will take off the moment you turn your back. They nodded in agreement, but you know what? I don't think they had a clue as to what "time out" is.

It was time to put the twins in their carseats. The seats were fastened into the vehicle well enough, and the IL's started to put the boys in. Simple enough job, right? Nope. The boys were GREAT, and didn't mind being there. The problem, was that the IL's couldn't get the seats done up!! Thankfully, I double checked JonJon's buckle, as it wasn't attached! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I told them how they have to listen for the "click", and should tug on the belt to make sure it's in place. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I know that when they left here, there were properly fastened in, however, I have no idea if that was the case for the rest of the day.

They left at 10:35am. And I BAWLED!!! I was a wreck!!! I had done everything I could do, to avoid this from happening (not visitation, just the IL's being the supervisors). I was so worried about how they would be. The twins nap from 1pm to 4pm everyday (yes, they DO sleep that long! honest! ). Thankfully, my childhood friend was in town for their baptism (she's their Godmother, and was also Andrew's), and was to arrive shortly.

She got here shortly after 11am, and we had a great day together. She took me out for lunch, and we did a bit of shopping (books and groceries). The day went by quite fast.

One of the things we did, as per HER suggestion, was to go and see where H's apt was. So we did. I know where H lives, b/c it's listed on his bail conditions, which I have copies of (and they're public records anyways, as I was told by the crown attorney). To put it simply, H lives in an apt complex which is inbetween two VERY busy roads, and there are no fences. There is no playground (although there is a pool). There are tons of trees, which make it very pretty... but with so much foliage, kids could hide and not easily be found too. H has a ground floor apt, and since the boys all know how to open patio doors and screens, it concerns me that they could easily "escape" from H's apt if they were there. (they learned how to use those types of doors from my dad.... who also has a ground floor apt, however, his place is fenced in, and the boys do NOT know how to access that gate (yet?) ).

The boys were returned at 5:55pm (IL's obviously knew better than to dare be late). I was so happy to see them, and they ran to me to give me hugs. I asked the IL's how the visit went, and all they could say was "fine" (and their tone was saying that I was being silly for asking such a question).

Then I asked MIL who it was that they were to report the visitation to? She again, looked at me like I was crazy, and said, "er, no-one". THAT worries me folks... it really does! What good is supervised visitation if there is no one they need to report to??? I also asked if the twins had their naps. Apparently MIL took them to her hotel room to nap, while H and FIL took Eric to a park.

I asked IL's when they'd be here next for visitation, and told them that I require a MINIMUM 2 weeks notice. They cannot yet give me a date, but ensured me that I'll have my 2 weeks notice. FIL sounded really annoying at this point.

Just before they left, I had Eric give MIL her mother's day card and present (a garden stake I made), as I didn't want to forget them the next day (my mind would be in a flurry over the baptism).

IL's left, and my friend and I went out back to play with the boys. Eric wanted juice, so I filled up his 500mL cup, and he downed the whole thing in a matter of 2 minutes!!! My boys, between the 3 of them, go through at LEAST 6L of juice in a day... for them to be so thirsty, there is NO WAY their fluids were kept up while they were gone.

Sure enough, I started to ask Eric how his day was. He was excited to tell me that he went to 2 parks with FIL and H, had chicken and french fries at the restaurant for lunch, and then had chicken and french fries at McD's for dinner too. Then I asked him what daddy said to him. I was expecting he'd tell me "daddy said he misses me and loves me". Instead, this is what he told me, "Daddy told me not to talk" and "Daddy told me to say NOTHING!!" . Can you guys say RED FLAGS!!! ??? I sure did!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Eric was extremely ANGRY for quite a few hours after coming home. Now I know what that's all about (I've read on here how the kids have been hard to handle sometimes, after visiting with the non-custodial parent).

Needless to say, I've informed my social worker at the Children's Aid Society. I'll email my lawyer once I've spoken with my CAS worker.

Sunday (Mother's Day) was the baptism. It went really well too. My IL's were there, as were my parents. After the service, I thanked my IL's for attending. I smiled, and was sincere (not an ounce of sarcasm... good for me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). Then my friend said to them that it was good to see them again too. They shook hands, and the IL"s even leaned forward to give HER a kiss on the cheek. Then they walked away!!! They didn't even acknowledge my comment (oh, sorry, MIL nodded to me) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> All of this, in front of my boys!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> THIS is where I labelled the IL's as IGNORANT! GRRR!!!

Well... that's about it for now. Of course, other things happened, but for the purposes of leaving this thread as a report for the visitation and attitudes from my IL's, I'll not write about it. Besides, this is long enough as it is! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

If you've actually read this far, THANK YOU!!

Karen

p.s. Nikko: I asked IL's to get the VHS tapes... but they "forgot" to ask about them! GRRR!!! So it'll have to wait until the case settlement in front of the judge on June 9th.

<small>[ May 12, 2003, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Topie25 ]</small>

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 987
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 987
Karen

Calm down here. It is only natural that you would find this first visitation so difficult and be worried about everything. But I do think perhaps some things you are worrying about which may not be necessary (about the apartment etc.). You have had to care for the boys solely since before Christmas (I don't even know what sort of a Dad H was when he was still with you), and you are completely used to their routines and needs. Of course, ILs may seem a little unsure of certain things, even buckling the kids in. I remember sitting for a friend once, and picking her kids up from daycare and then going to collect her from the station. Could I get the buckle to work, hadn't she done something with a hair grip?!?!?!?? I still couldn't do it and drove at a snail's pace telling the elder child to hold on tight to his little brother!!!! Does it make me irresponsible? No, but just perhaps a little clueless when it comes to children things.

Now of course, the big thing about H telling the kids not to say anything, well that is definitely something to be wary of, and finding out about what exactly the point of supervised visitation is, yes do that too. Are the ILs ignorant, probably a bit, but sometimes, (like my MIL), I just don't think they know how to handle it, what to say, how to behave. I know that is a FACT with my MIL, and I have said to you before, what must this mean to your ILs, how can they even begin to comprehend what their son has done.

This situation will get easier, but the first time was bound to be difficult and fraught with emotion.

Take care of yourself and glad to hear you did some nice girlie things!

Lisa

Edited to say: I'm not for one minute suggesting that the children shouldn't be safe and secure, and I was only going 100 yards down the road, the point being, what you are very used to doing might take them a little longer to get used to being as efficient - I'm sure you knew that's what I meant!!!

<small>[ May 12, 2003, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,956
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,956
Topie,

I guess I would take a slightly different stance on some of these issues.

I would make sure that the IL's acting in supervisor capacity knew that I would hold THEM personally responsible if something happened to my children. I would tell them that you would bring charges on them...not your stbxh...cause they are accepting that responsibility when they agreed to be supervisors.

About the diaper thing....isn't he in MAJOR trouble over child pornography? I would insist that he NOT be changing diapers. I would find that a threat in itself. I would not want him looking or touching in the genital area...father or not!

The juice thing, you have no control over how much or how little they get when they are with him. Again, make sure that the "supervisors" know that they have to make sure that the kids are hydrated....especially on hot days. It is their responsibilty once more.

Naps, unfortunately you do not get to sit a timetable while they are with him. When he is with them all routines that you might have with them are out the window. No one can make him stick to the routine that you have established, not even a judge. It is a "parenting" issue and all people parent differently. That is what they would tell you if you bring it to their attention and want something done about it.

Car seats....hold tight and firm to that one. Refuse to place them in the vehicle if there are no seats already in place to secure them. If they are there, you make sure they are secured before they leave. That is all that you can do. Again, make sure that these "supervisors" KNOW that you will hold them accountable if something were to happen. If they want to be supervisors, then they better behave like supervisors and take the responsibilities that they have.

I do not mean to come off as harsh with you. I do know what you are going through. I just think that you need to shift some things around so that your needs for your children are being addressed. It is clear that your stbxh cannot do it, make sure that his parents know that they will be in big trouble.

Who knows, they might decide that it is too big of a job for them, and then the court will appoint one that will make sure your kids are safe at all times.

JMHO
committed

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,394
T
Topie25 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,394
Lisa: Yes, I do understand the message you were trying to convey, so there was no need to edit your post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have basically been the sole parent to the boys for their entire lives. Even when H and I were together, he didn't do much "parenting" with them. When he was working full time, it was understandable that I be the primary caregiver. However, during our 1 1/2 yr (false) recovery, he was out of work for most of it, and STILL didn't do much (Major LBs, trust me).

I'm also still unable to comprehend WHY the IL's are taking on this role of supervisors in the first place. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Yes, I imagine this IS very uncomfortable for them, so in that regard, (specifically after telling me that they don't want to get involved), why did they get involved? No one could answer, not even them I suppose. MY interpretation has to do with their enabling, and co-dependancy issues (not knowing when to say no).

Committedandlovingit: Thank you for your reply as well. I understand your concern, especially regarding the diaper changes (and no, you are not being harsh... I come here for "tell it like it is" feedback). H is NOT to do the new bums on his own. H cannot be alone with a child.. not even his own. One or both of his parents must be present AT ALL TIMES when he is with the boys. I just wanted to ensure my MIL that it wasn't her job to do the work, but H's. Yes, she (or FIL) must be present, and literally watch what's going on.. .but that doesn't mean they have to do the actual work. Is that more clear? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It was VERY rough on Saturday, and I agree, that many of my "issues" may have been out of place. I was practically "winging it" though, as the case settlement hasn't yet occurred, and part of THAT will have specific outlines as what is who's responsibility. I was just following tons of advice on creating boundaries from the start.

After I talk with my CAS worker, and my lawyer, I will get them to help me with the specifics on the visitations. I need to know who is in charge, and what can or cannot be done, and who is responsible, etc. I understand how the IL's should be held responsible, legally, however, so should H. I agree with you there, wholeheartedly. I personally made an assumption that they realize they were taking such a grand responsibility when doing this... but I could be wrong. Again... this is something that needs to be settled with the CAS and lawyers.

---------------------------------------

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Karen

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 116
Y
Member
Offline
Member
Y
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 116
Hey Sweetie,

Not much 'advice' or wisdom to offer you here...but I can certainly tell you that I think your feelings are totally valid.

The thing that puzzles me is this, whose job (I mean the lawyers...or the CAS folks...not you) was it to coach/inform the in-laws about what their 'role' of supervisors would entail? Also, did anyone detail out what consequences could/would occur for failing to follow through and/or live up to this role? Did someone drop a ball here...or am I imagining a level of organization that does not exist with this arrangement??

I think some of the emotional angst you are going through isn't so much related to the individual instances in and of themselves (all of which are valid!) but...I don't know...I was just thinking..man, this stuff just hammers home sometimes how much this stuff stinks! I get caught up in the 'this shouldn't be happening'...'it shouldn't be this way'...'this is not how my life..and my kid's lives were supposed to be....'...and that pain...still lies underneath the big and little things that stick in my throat (and in my heart) that seem to be the 'stuff' that is getting me worked up.

I am glad your friend came into town and you were able to stay busy while the kids were gone and glad to hear about the baptism <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, am going to have to get ready for the long drive home...let us know what your lawyers/CAS folks have to say...you are doing the right thing...you are the only voice those kids have ...you gotta stand up for it all. Go, Mommy, go!

Love,

YR

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,394
T
Topie25 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,394
Thanks for the reply YR (I'm so glad to see you back here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ).

I don't know either, who's "job" it was to tell them of their "roles" in this supervising thing. Someone, or many, have messed up with this one, IMO. Just finding out from MIL that there is no one they report the visits to, was enough to get me riled up beyond reason (internally).

Originally, we were supposed to have a "case settlement" in front of a judge on May 6th (although not an actual "hearing", the judge would tell us what he would order in a court based on the current information). Anyways... that was cancelled, and postponed until June 9th. The details of this visitation stuff was to be hashed out there. I'm going to ask my lawyer if I can withhold visitations until after that court date.

I still don't know who plays what role. All I care about is that my boys are safe from harm (physically AND emotionally).

It's probably all a legal thing, and not really CAS involved... although it's the CAS I call first if something "funny" goes on.

I'll definitely post about what's going on once I talk to my worker and lawyer.

Karen

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 589
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 589
Hello Topie
Don't got much advise today
Just thanking you for answering mine it really helped <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take care

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,938
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,938
Wow Topie, quite the weekend you had. All I really have to say is way to go making it through it all. You are such a strong woman!! Your little ones are so fortunate to have you as their mom.

Take care,

Jen

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 534
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 534
Wow Lady! What a weekend. I feel so bad for Eric. Give him a hug for me!!

Have you talked to CAS or your lawyer yet??

I wonder if they would allow visitation with me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Lets see, you're my sister and I demand it!! Your STBX has to pay for the travel and all the little things. I like that idea.

You are such a wonderful woman Karen. Keep it up girl!!

Love ya!
K

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 987
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 987
Hi Karen

Do keep us posted, and I am glad you understood what I meant <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I thought you probably would, and I do truly understand how difficult this first visit must have been for you.

Well, if your H wants to keep in touch with his kids, he'll probably have to do more parenting now than he did previously from what you say.

Take care of yourself, just checking in to see that you are OK today.

Lisa

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,394
T
Topie25 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,394
matilde: I've been where you are now, and I know how hard it can be some days. I'm glad I was able to help you out some. Sometimes we really need someone else to tell us things that don't seem obvious to us. Emotions can be such a pain! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Jen Brown: With the help of folks such as yourself, telling me how strong I am, it's eventually sinking in. I'm also pretty lucky to have my boys... they're so awesome! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Knewjie: I haven't spoken to either my lawyer or CAS worker yet. I will update as soon as I have. Yes, I feel bad for Eric too. I asked him again today, if he could tell me what daddy said to him, and again I got the answer, "daddy told me not to talk". So then I asked him, "how did that make you feel?". Eric answered, "It made me upset". <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Hmmm... I like your idea of having stbxH pay for your visit here...hehehe. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lisa: Thanks for checking in again today. I'm doing better actually. Venting things out on here almost always helps... even if it does take a few days for the effects to sink in. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Karen

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,575
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,575
hey girl-----you survived!!!!!congrats. and your right-they are ignorant! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

i think you did great and everyone has allready told you everything you need to know----except---do not ask anything except did you have a good time??!! questioning the boys is not good for the boys. the hell with ex-he's an as& and you allready know it. he's gonna screw up-if he was so good, you'd still be married to him right!!lol

just be carefull not to put the boys in the middle--please. my x did this---not good.

love ya-congrats

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,295
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,295
Praying for you in this difficult time.


Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,254 guests, and 50 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5