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I FINALLY feel as if I am moving on. No drive-bys for about 3 weeks (I think!). Last contact was 2 weeks ago concerning separation date and getting WH to sign himself off the lease for our flat ...which he STILL hasn't done, I might add!

I went out to a party on Friday night with a few friends and had a real blast. Reminded myself that I am only 29, have a good job, no kids, weigh only 59 kgs (infidelity diet!) and currently have a great haircut. There is a lot to be smiling about <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> OK, OK, I got hit on by a couple of nice guys, but although it was flattering, all I could think was "hmmm ... I wonder who you're cheating on ... " <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I can almost taste the distrust that I have developed as a result of this infidelity episode, and the subsequent breakdown of my marriage.

Do I want WH back? No, not really. For all of the reasons discussed in previous posts. But I am kind of stuck in a limbo position. To have to wait 2 years for a divorce (this is the law in NZ) seems ridiculous. (I will be nearly 31!) If WH and I had not married, and had simply lived together for 5 years, then there would not be this manatory 2 years wait in purgatory.

Anyway, I am feeling more self assured day by day. I am really feeling as if it is WH who has lost out here; for a long time I was merely telling myself this, but now I actually believe it. I am not the one with anger and depression issues. I am not the one who is carrying the burden of this huge secret (he has only told 1 person - the wonderful wayward friend M). I am not the one who has to face up to family and friends and try to explain my behaviour. I am not the one who has to try to explain myself to my love interests, hoping that this wee incident doesn't scare them away! I am not the one who is stuck with OW!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

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sounds like you are doing the right things, and reaping the rewards...getting healthier.

Your communication with in-laws worked out ok, so this is late...but I would have encouraged it as well. The key factor in this area is revealing truth to everyone...family, friends, co-workers etc. Affairs thrive on secrecy, and fog is fueled by ignorance. It is one of the few "rights" and helpful proactive actions a BS can take (and strongly encouraged by MB, because you have absolutely nothing to lose). If revelations "seem" to turn out badly, makes no difference, cause the outcome would have been no different (a marriage cannot recover properly if the affair not revealed to all, the foundation is secrecy which is no foundation at all)...best to let the truth set you free...and if the others do not want to follow, you leave em behind. In your case the truth was helpful to the in-laws, and had a healthy outcome..this could not happen without your taking action.

From what you have posted, seems like you have done all you can, and I agree with the going dark until the circumstances change substantially (basically NC, and a committment to positive efforts with you). It is time to focus on your life, learning, exercsing, growing in ways healthy for you...take whatever legal action necessary to protect yourself. One other thing, due to the good relationship with in-laws, and because you are still married..it might be helpful for you to regularly (but not often), keep them posted (chatty little positive missives)on your life....with NO references to marriage, their son, etc. Your H may (or may not) read these things and have an affect on his fog. And perhaps if opportunity arises for lunch (or whatever) see them occassionally (again no talk about marriage or son..telling them you need to stay away from those topics until son takes positive action).

<small>[ July 29, 2003, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

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One of the reasons WH got away with the A for so long is because his parents live in a different country, 15 hours flight time. They are coming to visit in September for 2 weeks - probably won't see them unless it is alone. I was out of touch with them for four months Jan-April, then had 1 phone conversation post DDay, then nothing more until I phoned them last week. They knew WH was planning on leaving back in DECEMBER!! Although, it wasn't until talking to them post DDay that they knew about OW.

To start up a dialogue with them seems a little odd at this stage ..... But there is nothing to lose really.

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Surprises!!

WH sent back my wedding ring

he also signed himself off the lease for the house

AND supplied me with the date that he moved out of the house.

It was two weeks earlier than I had originally thought! 23rd Jan vs 6th Feb. Which truly stinks, because
(1) it means that he had already jacked up his new place while I was still here at New Year (our wedding anniversary is 2nd Jan)
(2) when he came to visit me on my leave weekend (Jan 24-27) he had already moved out.

Anyway, he wants his half of the bond money back, and I am in two minds over this. The form he just signed relinquishes all claims over the bond. So legally, I don't have to give him a cent. Morally, however, it is his. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

The only other piece of information I need now is his financial position. Unlikely to get this, however.

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Look what arrived in my inbox. Obviously a mistake. MIL's e-mail to OW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Hi *********
How are you?
Thank you for your e-mail I have had a quick look at it as I have to go to work soon.
To me ****** is perfect. It is he who tries to tell me he is not.And as a mother I have to say it is not working I think he is wonderful and, yes, perfect.
Claire is Claire and I am learning to except her the way she is. I don't know if she is useing me or not but if she was I could not blame her any way.
I was sorry ***** got up set about my e-mail to him I was trying to tell him I was trying to see both sides, and that he needed to take care of some of the busness side of things and not let them linger on and on.  
I will look forward to seeing you in Auckland soon.
                               Love *******.

Screw keeping up with the inlaws. Only a week ago my MIL was saying that both her husband (FIL) and I were right about her carrying on communication with OW. Plan B to the inlaws.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ClaireL:
<strong>To me ****** is perfect. It is he who tries to tell me he is not.And as a mother I have to say it is not working I think he is wonderful and, yes, perfect.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This speaks volumes. Take her at her word on this. Everyone else knows it's crap...MIL obviously has her "blinders" on. So be it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ClaireL:
<strong>
Claire is Claire and I am learning to except her the way she is. I don't know if she is useing me or not but if she was I could not blame her any way.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now you know her true colours. Most likely she was plannning to use you for info she could pass along to her son. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ClaireL:
<strong>
Screw keeping up with the inlaws. Only a week ago my MIL was saying that both her husband (FIL) and I were right about her carrying on communication with OW. Plan B to the inlaws.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree, cut them lose. They are not being straight with you. You don't need that kind of grief.

Having had HUGE in-law issues both pre and post d-day I can tell you from experience that your in-laws will always "stand by" their child FIRST. It doesn't matter what that child has done. I know this fact doesn't surprise you. IMHO, I think you are most upset that your in-laws lied to and decieved you and you have every right to feel that way.

What would I do?? I would reply to MIL with the text of her note to OW and state in my own note...

"Dear MIL,

I don't think you intended for me to read this. Having said that, it is readily apparent to me how you feel about me. Maybe someday you will understand how truly hurtful this whole situation has been to me. In the future I will no longer be corresponding with yourself or FIL.

Regards,
ClaireL"

If FIL has a separate email addy I'd forward all of this to him as well.

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Claire,

I am dealing with a similar issue. WH is now living in another country with OW. FIL lives in the same country and has hosted OW at his house several times and she may even have gone along with them on a family vacation to the seaside (not sure). I was devastated that FIL would enable WH's A - I feel this is disrespectful and deliberately hurtful to me. BUT... FIL will no longer speak to me because I was disrespectful to him because I called him a S** o* B**** when I found out he was hosting OW at his home. Long and short of it, FIL believes WH when WH tells him all of the terrible things about me and believed WH's lie that he and OW were "just friends" until I made him leave in early June. The fact that in the past 3 days, I have found numerous e-mails and pictures saying otherwise from as early as June 2002 would make no matter if I were to send them to FIL - even in black and white, FIL will believe and support WH because WH is his son.

I want so badly to send FIL copies of the e-mails and pictures OW sent WH, but in the end it would do no good. I am better off having no contact with FIL. Maybe someday, he will come to the realization that yes, what I called him was disrespectful of him, but what he (FIL) did with regard to OW is even more disrespectful and deserving of an apology to me.

Regards,

BB

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WOW, that was a GREAT e-mail the IL's sent! I'm happy they did. I know I would NOT get the same... my MIL doesn't even speak to me. I stole her baby...

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Alright. I'll be the dissenting voice. Your in-laws thought in retrospect that it was a mistake to communicate with OW. Obviously, they are under pressure to communicate with OW anyway, and they cracked. They would have to if they are going to stay in touch with their son.

Obviously from the context of the note, OW accused you of "using" them. They deflected the issue, saying if you are, they could hardly blame you. It looks like they are -- mildly, noncommitally -- defending you to her, saying they accept you (probably in the context of OW's accusations, whatever those might be).

They don't want to take sides. It sounds like OW might be LBing them. Let her.

I wouldn't respond quickly. Wait. Wait a day or a few days. Get some more posts. Think it through. Try to see it from their side. Then OW's side. Then H's side. Then your own again.

Don't you LB them. I'm not sure Plan B would be a good idea with the in-laws. It seems like it might serve OW's interests -- therefore not yours. Maybe a Plan A with them -- knowing they are not on your "side," knowing they are going to ccommunicate with OW, not being naive.

Again, think it through. Bide your time.

<small>[ July 31, 2003, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

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Claire -- Rereading the letter, I really do think that ILs are caught in a bind. They are being mild in their language, but obviously defending themselves for appearing to take your side.

Try to reconstruct what OW's email to them must have said, from their responses. From the bland opening ("How are you?") and the cursory glance they admit they gave OW's email, it sounds like they are trying to blow her off...or cool her down.

Here's one possible way to act: how about send it back to them, with the simple comment -- "I don't think you intended me to read this --"

If YOU have no reaction, then there will be no way for you to be a target. They will have to imagine your response, rather than respond to your anger, etc. Let the ILs do the explaining. You be gracious and generous of their motives.

I would be very careful. It does sound like they are caught in the middle, and you want them to be on your side. If you LB them, as it appears your H and OW are doing, you won't win any points.

<small>[ July 31, 2003, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

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Claire,
I think sometimes In-laws get in the fog with Whs. I was never close to my sister in law or mother in law and felt they babied my ex-WH WAY too much, but when the affair happened, it was really confirmed. According to my MIL it was me who made ex walk on eggshells, me who should be more understanding. From D-day my SIL and MIL made no attempts to contact me. My FIL did not either but he at least talked to me when I called and acted like he felt ex-WH was wrong. My ex-MIL even got upset because when I moved out she thought I took the George Foreman grill ($20) that she gave us. I didn't. But the point is, she didn't care about how her son had hurt me because he was her baby. She did his laundry, bought him food, cooked, took his car to get serviced and paid, etc. She just didn't get it, or understand the magnitude of what he had done. I think someday she will, because you reap what you sow. As soon as the pregnancy of OW was announced- even FIL thought ex should divorce me and marry OW to raise the child- that that would take more "faith" than staying with me?!?!!? So I had to cut all ties with them. I only miss FIL but I know that it is not even appropriate to talk to him. It is sad but blood IS thicker than mud and it just doesn't matter sometimes what someone does- their family will defend to the end, without acknowledging the breakdown and the problems. I'm sorry your inlaws don't see what they are doing.

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Thanks for the opinions. I have cooled down a bit. It was just a stupid error on MIL's part. I think that they are caught in the middle, and I do think that MIL is just keeping in touch with OW because of the extra info about WH. So who is using who here???

I have tried to imagine the letter that OW must have sent to the ILs, and have to go with AM's opinion.

It seems that:

* OW sent them a long-winded (angry?) e-mail about my contact with the ILs and their subsequent email to WH asking him to get on with sorting out the legal matters. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
"Thank you for your e-mail I have had a quick look at it as I have to go to work soon. "

* OW has been accusing me of badmouthing WH to the ILs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
"To me ****** is perfect. It is he who tries to tell me he is not." MIL just corrected OW on my behalf, it seems. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

*OW had a go at badmouthing me by saying that I am using the ILs. HOW DARE SHE!!!!! She is most definitely using the ILs!!!
"Claire is Claire and I am learning to except her the way she is. I don't know if she is useing me or not but if she was I could not blame her any way." Thanks Mom! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

* OW must have said to ILs that WH was upset with their advice on sorting out the "business side of marriage". Not a smart move to be telling parents how to do their job! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
"I was sorry ***** got up set about my e-mail to him I was trying to tell him I was trying to see both sides, and that he needed to take care of some of the busness side of things and not let them linger on and on" 

Sooooo ..... Who is looking a bit insecure now?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The only bit that really got to me was the piece about looking forward to meeting OW. How could MIL say this?!!! Or was she being sarcastic? And what about the "Love MIL" at the end. I never sign my correspondence with Love unless I really mean it, maybe other people aren't as careful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

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Obviously MIL usings 'love MIL' very loosely. She's never even met the OW.

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"Love" is a conventional formality for ending a note. I wouldn't use it either, but many people do. "I look forward to meeting you..." Hmmmmm... Could be she was just trying to soften the message, in which she is defensive. Could be she's bowing to what appears to be inevitable. But if OW is LBing already, I don't think they are setting up a happy event.

I think you're right on with this one, Claire.

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Hey, Claire, your reading of the "perfect" line was crackerjack -- I hadn't picked that up, but you are probably right.

And OW hasn't even met MIL yet! Wow! LBing before you even meet someone! I really think the "look forward to meeting you" is meant to be conciliatory rather than sincere, but I'm guessing.

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I'm still pondering what to do with WH's share of the bond money. I think I should just ignore his request.

I don't actually hold the bond money - it is held by the landlord, and so infact, I can't request that it be returned. WH must do so himself.

Should I let WH know this? Since I dealt with most household financial matters, he would have no clue about having to speak to the landlord about the bond.

If I am in a deep dark Plan B, then I mustn't contact him to pass this information on. I just don't want him & OW to use this as another thing against me. ("Claire refused to refund my bond money ... yap yap yap")

Maybe I should try conveying this via the inlaws?? But then that would seem as if I was using them .....

Maybe e-mail to WH cc-ed to ILs too? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I know this seems like an awful lot of fuss, but I am thinking twice (even 3 times) before I act these days. I've had enough of things blowing up in my face.

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Don't know what to do about bond money, but I would definitely leave ILs out. Sounds like they are already on your side, but caught in the middle already. That's a card you might need to play elsewhere.

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Well, even in plan B there is still the business side of a M that has to be resolved. Regarding his part of the bond...can this matter be handled through lawyers at this point? If not, I'd send a very brief, clear and concise email to WH telling him how to get his bond back ON HIS OWN. I certainly wouldn't do it for him (you mentioned you can't anyway). DO not reply to any email he may subsequently send to you. IMHO, I wouldn't involve the IL's either.

<small>[ August 02, 2003, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

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ClaireL, Well, I certainly have a totally different opinion of IL's. Remember that blood is thicker than water. And whatever your H decides to do, they're going to agree with him if only to continue their relationship with son.
You might want to change the name from inlaws to outlaws!
I would be very careful of what you reveal to them, in fact, not trust at all!
I have found too many people will stab you in the back while smiling to your face.
I don't think they're in a fog at all. They know what son is doing and it's wrong. But most parents will not buck the system when it comes to doing right and wrong and losing their relationship with child. It's life!
Why don't you ask landlord to contact your H about the bond? Landlord has a duty to return it and to whom it goes is his responsibility!
Give your landlord the contact info and ask him to do it!
I used to be a very trusting person, believeing in good in everyone. But at age 61, trials galore and seeing that even closest family will kick you when down, I've learned you can only trust yourself! And God if you have a religious belief!
I would suggest minimal contact with IL's. Better for you to stay dark from them too or semi dark.
Just my own opinion but from well time traveled here on earth!
LouLou

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LadyLou, I think both are true. They don't seem to approve of what he's doing -- but ultimately, of course, they are going to stay on good terms with their son, whatever the cost and their personal opinions. It would be naive to assume otherwise.

In my personal opinion, they are doing what they can. But no, Claire shouldn't unburden herself to them and trust them utterly. But a good Plan A with them might help.

Think of it as a military campaign, and it all becomes less personal.

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