What happens when your WH comes home, then over two year period when disagreeing and arguing, they tell you that you are the nastiest ***** they've ever known, that OW was never or could never be that bad and you don't know her like they do, And on and on?.
It has come down to the last two days, I finally wrote mine a email telling him in 8 months when I can, I will file. And he can go to her because I will not be able to love him without respect.
I'm the evil one according to him and going to lose my soul, according to him. But she isn't because she is a paragon of virtue.
ME: The wife who was loyal and faithful for 31 yrs. Loving, warm, passionate and practically kissed his A$$ for years.
Her: Married, cheating on her H, writing such vulgar emails as how much she needed him in her mouth and ?????
Advising him how to transfer all monies to another state and bank telling him I was not entitled to anything but half his SS when I was old enough. I was supposed to live on the street I suppose or work after all these years.
But she's not evil. I am the one who is evil for saying she ought to hurt just half as much as I have.
I see in his heart the respect he gives her over me, thus showing he lies when he says no love for her and loves me. You can't have it both ways.
I have informed him no more marriage, and when I do draw SS next year, I'll file, still getting my half of all our assets.
He just refuses to pay or file and says I have to do it myself.
When I told him how I felt, he has made absolutely not one comment after. NONE
Which also is the way he irritates me and puts me in emotional turmoil most of my life here.
I have made up my mind. It does one no good to get their spouse back only to feel they're merely physically here, but emotional gone. His heart is with her. I'm convinced and I believe the only reason he came back is due to financial or she didn't want him. now he can pay.
LouLou

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by NewBranch:
<strong>
What happens when your WH comes home, then over two year period when disagreeing and arguing, they tell you that you are the nastiest ***** they've ever known, that OW was never or could never be that bad and you don't know her like they do, And on and on?.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LouLou, judging by your last post: You sound like you're worn down and frustrated. I can tell you were committed as any. Lord, I wish my WW was half as committed as you. You husband sounds spoiled and maybe always was to some degree. Hmmm?

I don't know how your Plan B went, but you H seems very sure that he would never loose you or he wouldn't be taking you for granted. I don't he believes you will really file or he's completely unrealistic about what's in store for him if he gets what he says he wants. To quote a phrase from Mr. Spoke of Star Trek after he wins a bride who he later learns wants another.

"Sometimes having is not so good as wanting.."

It may not be the end yet. I think a person like your H needs to learn his lessons the hard way.

If it were me, I would file, take him for spousal support and anything else I could get, the let him go to the OW with your blessing and wish him happiness (with a wry smile). Then completely ignore him. You know what the OW is and what she will do to him. He's used to having his way. Let him face the harsh reality of what he has chosen. He can compare it to what he's taken for granted for so many years with you. Let him suffer his fate. What do you have to loose? He wants our anyway.

I have an (ex)friend who was like what I think your H acting like. He was so arrogant before his wife finally gave up on him and cut him loose. He told her that a divorce would end all of his troubles. He got what he wanted but he has nothing now. After 30 years of marriage he gave it all up for a woman who eventually dumped him. But he can't go back. He keeps trying but his lovely wife has found a man who is worthy of her. She is still a good friend of mine. She spent 3 years alone before meeting the new man. She was happy even before she met him.

I hope you eventually get him back but after he has been humbled by life and the OW.

LouLou:

What's going on? I didn't know you are in crisis? Please calm down and share your history.

thanks all. Mimi, H had an A, second one in 23 yrs, back in 2001 from March to Sept. Most was phone and email as he'd contacted his old HS sweetie. Same age as I.
When I found all the secret emails, they had the place they were actually at in Fl. that night. I called, he hid, had ow tell me he had left days before. Said he couldn't face me on phone. Ashamed.
Came home that very day, flew back to Ca.
When he got home, he said he couldn't ask forgiveness as he didn't deserve it, but wanted us to work our marriage out and not divoce. yet, he answered I ask if he loved her more that at the moment he did, then said or "I thought I did"!
Went one time to counselor at his work and told him he'd have been miserable had I left him.
It's been since Sept 2001 and we've come a long ways. But lately, if we have any argumets, usually after telling him my feelings if I'm down, he calls me awful names, says I dont' know anything about her, and acts as though she's some saint. Told me when I spoke of my feelings it was garbage, and I was nastiest ***** alive!
I told him maybe he should have gotten is divorce and gone and broke her marriage up. She had told him she loved her H and was going to work her marriage out, not to contact her anymore also.
Saying they'd both agreed in Fl. that they weren't compatiable.
then he said he could have her if he wanted her even now!
Once told me she was divorced and waiting on him. All a lie just to upset me more.
Well, after hearing he should have stayed with her, how I don't know as she was living at home with H, I decided I'm tired of that being thrown in my face. If he respects her so much, seems to think she's a paragon of virtue and I'm just garbage for being faithful and loyal, I've told him I will file.
He will not file nor pay for it.
Says I will have to because he won't.
This always comes out in arguments.
Then he'll come apologize days later, say he didn't mean it and so forth.
The bottom line to me is words don't erase ones heart felt feelings.
So! He can go. I'll file next April as that's when I'll have funds of my very own, not marital assets.
I will get plenty in settlement, I've checked it with Atty.
You see, to me it does no good to rebuild a marriage if the UH is going to feel no respect for what he had. Taken for granted is right, Monty. I've always been taken for granted by him as I should have left him 25 yrs ago.
Wish I had!
I will try to write more later. Just somethings going on here I must see to.
Anyhow, I've been the considerate wife since DDAy, treated him no different in our relationship, but the disrespect of still hurting me with verbal abuse in disagreements is enough!
As far as I'm concerned, he can go to hell in a basket.
She, I do not think, will divorce her H for him. She told me she didnt' love him, made a mistake, and besides, she can't have sex! So my H can find somebody else.
I still have it all and will find the type of man who is equal to me in morals and compassion.
I know many! but not one thing would I do before divorce. Believe me, I will go after one who is everything I wish my H would be!

But not a chance in hell of him ever becoming half the man of this wonderful Christian I know who is single. Lonely and wonderful! Friends only we've been.
But hey? Why not make my plan now? LOL
At least I'll not play the stinking adultry game my H did. If he wants an unfaithful woman, he thinks she only would cheat for him, let him learn.
I'm not the type to ever return once I go.
LOuLou

LL,

Sorry to hear about this but what you wrote sounds very familar. T/B honest, mine manifested similar traits during our H of not caring. Find out later that 1 of his claims/excuses was that he had the A was he wanted to hurt me before I hurt him. NOt physically but emotionally. Now is that crazy or what? I told him well he should have told me that 'fear', it sounded stupid but the next time give me the opportunity to be as stupid since I never in a million years could think of doing that to someone. Of course it was another unreasonable A remark, he was really reaching for excuses but it had a weird ring of truth. His parents played this kind of game during his youth and for some stupid reason he felt it is what married people do! Hm..... I told him that marrages are not about a race or competition of who will hurt who first, it is a relationship built on trust.

It took a while but eventually it started sinking in. LL, are you going t/b @ the zoo? Sure would like to meet you and talk. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care,
L.

Whoa, wait a minute. Talk to us, NB. I remember you posting "my marriage is on track, and has been for some time" not long ago.
Is your H still in contact with OW? I thought you had done PB, were in recovery, and that there had been NC with OW for some time.
What has been happening in the last two years, and what the hell happened in the last two days?
We are here for you, LouLou, but we need some info.

Ok, saw your reply to mimi after my post.
If last contact was two years ago H should be over it by now. Harley states in SAA </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">those few who report lingering withdrawal symptoms after six months are usually guilty of making sporadic contacts with the former lover, and lying about those contacts to their spouse. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So has H been in contact with OW over the last two years?
After two years in recovery OW should not be in your lives. Of course you can not forget, but have either of you forgiven enough to move on? Were you ever able to talk honestly about what happened and why? That should have been taken care of long ago. When talking to H now, if you are "telling him my feelings if I'm down" how does OW get into the picture? Does he bring up the OW and the A, or do you?
He said he could have her if he wants her even now? She might have something to say about that. Her H might have something to say about that. If he hasn't seen or spoken to her for two years how would he know? Of course he doesn't see her as a saint or a paragon of virtue. She was cheating on her H with a MM. Your H can still feel the fantasy, the fog never cleared completely. After two years you and your H have not gotten OW out of your lives. Why?
You have always been straight-up with me, I'll do the same for you. You said that "I've have been the considerate wife since D-day, treating him no different in our relationship". If that's true, then we both know what the problem is. Both of you should be treating each other different.
Did you both follow the Four Rules to Recovery? Have you both tried to meet the others EN? Are you both trying to make the other happy? Not like before. Different!
A lot of questions, I know, but they need to be answered. None of us here want to see a M end. But in order for any M to survive both spouses must want it and be willing to work for it. Do you each want to be in this M for the rest of your life? Take some time, step back from the brink for a moment, consider your options. Then do what you have to do.
Be strong.

LouLou, have you been lovebusting him? Have you been attacking the OW? That is a sure fire way to back him into a defensive posture and prevent him from seeing her in a true, realistic light. As long as he is forced to defend her, he almost has continue to see her in fantasy light.

What things are you doing to make yourself attractive to him?

Orchid, Monty, Mimi, Melody, 23, yes I do LB at times!Many times there are triggers he does and I ask him not to, then I need to tell him my feelings. I've done this with very calm, considerate demeanor in my Opinion.
If I even mention a need for healing, I get screaming and cursing and fist in my face. Not hit me, but shaken.
Then the names called me are awful. Seems to be or makes me feel he's putting her first and showing a respect not earned by her, but one I should be given for who I've been all these years.
It truly is now effecting me spiritually.
He will twist it around to start making her look like a saint, and that he should have left me for her. Then say he doesnt'want her, doesnt' love her, just so inconsistent. Calling me nutso, crazy, mentally ill, nastiest ***** in world, and praising her for who she was. Saying things like her H took her back so she must be wonderful, right?
She never nagged me or complained.
Then I point out he never cheated on her as he wasn't married to her and how does he think she'd be if he was!
NO matter how calm I try to be, or talk in a reasonable fashion, it's hell. In other words, I am to eat it up, suck it I guess, and never feel anything.
It's his heart I feel is wrong. Words don't set with me if they counter your previoius ones.
I know I must sound confusing because I'm still upset two days later.
Calmly I ask today if he had any response about my feeling disrespected over his OW and he went into a tantrum.
Says he'll never respond. So you see, it's at a place where I can't feel secure in his feelings or his words. He has most of our marriage been a chronic liar. And isn't going to change now so you can't believe anything said.
See, for two years when things have been great, it's because I shove my feelings down and don't ask for any needs met. A few I have and he's met them, but not the important ones.
Bottom line I guess is he's always going to see her as better woman than me in the way of character and morals which is sick. Because I've been the Christian wife, lover, mom and helpmate.
I can't do that anymore. It's tearing me away from my faith and belief in the Lord. Well, not taking my faith, let me correct that, but making me into something God doesn't like!
Changing me into a hateful, vengeful person due to hurt and pain.
I've not been like that in my life. As for forgivness, for the A, yes one can and I did forgive. But only because I thought he'd repented, felt remorse and did not hold her as something above me in qualities of character.
It's not feelings that she's better in sexual way, she isn't, that I found out, nor in looks, or brains, but somehow I feel he defends her and does things to hurt me. That I cannot forgive when it's supposed to not be that way.
Somewhere, he has to not just have ended A, he has to see her for the real evil she was. He can't!
I can't pretend in a marriage. I was never like that. As for being the sweetest, loving person, I used to be, he agreed on that much. He wants that back now.
This is my second marriage. When he and I met I wouldn't sleep with him until after wedding. That's who I am! I respect myself, and my God.
somehow, I feel he's never appreciated, but rather taken for granted I'd let him push crap in my face forever. Can it be good? yes, Can it be happy at times? Yes. but the waters running underneath are the ones I feel ripping at me.
Gut feelings don't lie to me!
And I'm not trying to hang on to him in any way if he wants to walk.
Damn finances, damn 31 yrs, but give me happiness in my love life.
Give me secure feelings. Let me know I have the respect I deserve. Cherished, and loyal to me.
So many seem to feel if there is NC, A ended, which it did almost 2 yrs ago, that that makes it ok. Life should be good, right?
Wrong! It takes more than that.
It's who a person is on the return, how they think, how they act, speak, and interact.
Quite frankly, he told me after DDay he wouldn't hurt her feelings. Ok, so bet it, but why keep hurting me? I feel the A was enough pain, but to have him call me names and try to put me as beneath her in dignity is too much.
We'll see. He has a few months. He will not file, said no divorce. But I will come to a point where I can do it myself.
I dare not use marital assets as I would get physically harmed.
So I must wait. He has 8 months to get his [censored] together! Pardon, but I mean that.
In meantime, I will pray and beg God to keep my mouth shut, help me overlook ignorance of his, and just go day by day to get through life.
Also, I have to say that what he's doing now and has done afterward is causing me to not love him like I did. Even after A I still loved, but less. Now it's becoming almost nil.
See, now it's him I cannot respect.
And I regret wasting 25 yrs after first DDay with him in another A with different OW.
God, how stupid I was not to have walked away when I was still young and had my own business.
The disrespect was shown then. Only worse this time.
If saving a marriage means sacrificing oneself,it's not worth it ladies and gents. Truly now worth it!
LBing is something we can control. But to what end if the other person has sick feelings that keep life from being all it should be?
We expect changes. That to me now, is the first mistake on our part. They don't change, most anyway, they just sort of idle a while.
My biggest regret when I come down to die will be having stayed with him 25 yrs ago!
perhaps I'll be more coherent later friends. I'm sorry to rant so and be so addled in writing. But I'm very agitated to point of health problems.
LouLou

LouLou,

So H is really a block head ... this is my 2¢. If you put his belonging in the front door and kick him out ... would he able to go to OW or will OW would be able to take him ? ... even would he be happy ?. I think the answer to all of the above is NO. This is going to be hard ... you have to stay away from Dv or putting a threat to it, unless you mean it. Do what Orchid did ... put his belonging in the front door and kick him out. This is not plan A/B but a tough love. You have full contact w/ WH but you should not fillin any ENs until WH is willing to work on M and earn his place as H.

It is very hard but you have no choice if you still want him or your sanity or both. He has to learn that his behavior is not acceptable and live the consequences. Like Orchid's story ... her H has an issue, very personal one. It is not about the M or A but it is about him. Until he is willing to look deep into it there is no use to work on M. Lou ... take Orchid's offer and email her.

If he threathen to use physical ... call a police & put a temporary R.O. then file permanent R.O the next day. Have someone present when he is back or stay away for a few day.

You have no choice ... staying put would drained your LB$ & won't do any good to your M.

-rh-

Thanks Redhat, all others here too.
I have told him he can pack up and get. LOL But he won't budge.
I'm trying other tactics as well, but same old thing with apologies and sorry and didn't mean it, etc.
It's almost impossible to talk to him or communicate at all unless I do when we're in public place. Sometimes it's Starbucks where we sit outside, because I know he can and will keep his voice and anger in check that way.
That is terrible to have to do just to talk. Obviously, he feels it's an attack no matter how it's handled or what is said.
But he is aware of what I need and expect now, and the time has been given that I will make a move it not gotten his act together.
Somehow, he feels if I bring up anything about my feelings, or insecurities, that it's all about her and bringing her up to him. His comments are that he doesn't want her mentioned ever so he can forget about her. Says he has until I bring her up.
For instance, I tell him I feel he doesn't respect me still the way he should for who I am.
Right away he will reply that he isn't ever going to talk about A or her again!
See? Am I nuts or did I not say anything about her but he reads it as me having done so?
Oh well, thanks for all the advice. I would hate to end 31 yrs in divorce at this stage of life. But, somehow this is going to be resolved and in a calm manner!
Orchid? What Zoo? LOL I live in one. but where is the Zoo you're talking about? Where is everyone meeting?
I live in Southern Ca by the way. Is it out here?
I may have read something and simply forgot it? This is an old brain even if I do feel 16 still. LOL
Thanks again. Lou Lou