TMD,

It's not quite so black and white as the needs being met or unmet. There are a lot of circumstances that come together.

Let's create an analogue of an old rusty steel bridge. Over the years, this bridge needs routine maintenance, paint, and so forth. But what if we fail to maintain it? Will it fail immediately? Unlikely. The more likely scenario is that the bridge will remain standing until it's challenged by some large and heavy vehicle, at which point its probability of giving in goes up dramatically.

So, the probability that unmet needs will result in an affair is a function of the depth of the unmet need (quite variable) and the opportunity to have an affair.

If I desperately need Admiration, that alone doesn't mean I'll have an affair. However, if you couple that with someone outside the marriage who's willing to meet it, then you have the ingredients of an affair.

I don't care who you are or what you think you are or are not capable of, if you are deprived of certain emotional needs that are important to you for long enough, you'll find yourself vulnerable to an affair.

Low

There is a difference between

"He/She didn't appreciate me enough, so I found someone else who could - He/She MADE me have the affair"

and

"He/She didn't appreciate me enough, so I found someone else who could - I CHOSE to have an affair"

I know this is over simplifying the matter. Someone who gives the first explanation hasn't taken responsibility for their actions. My WS and his FWS Jedi Master are stuck on the first explanation for their behaviour.

Someone who makes the 2nd statement realises they had a choice in the matter.

I think that it goes beyond need of appreciation. It has to do with security. EA, PA, these folks are sick with a need to have alms with people on intimate levels, due to their insecurity I think. I believe that this overrides the sense of decency that many take for granted in having within their own personality. And it does seem to follow suit that these seekers of admiration, security etc, usually have more than one affair partner. Kind of a style of life in fact.

Integrity is something that you learn and grow with. If you don't know what that is, you are susceptible to cross that Affair line. And in some places affair type behavior is encouraged. Ethical consideration, is necessary to keep in mind when you are entertaining any ideas of the kind. Knowing your limits is essential. And taking excellent care of those boundaries is needed. If you feel you are approaching a difficulty in this area, you need to be able to talk to your spouse, you need to open that window, seek appropriate assistance, read the fine books that are incredibly well researched today.

And in marriage, we need to protect each other! We need to be aware of opposite sex relationships that are over the edge, or identify firstly which acquaintances appear to be that "type". Those who are so "helpful", overly interested in maintaining closer relations, projects that go beyond the necessary lenght of time , as in during social times like after work,(which need to be spent with a spouse, not a co-worker and are in essence stealing time from your own real family).

We are all human, and we make mistakes. But the smart humans, look at the mistake and learn what to do better. And be sure, there is better!!

Here's an excerpt from Dr Willard Harley's 'Surviving An Affair' (page 16):

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"With all of the sadness and suffering, why do so many people have an affair? The answer is that, for the moment, it seems the right thing to do. Men and women are easily carried away by their emotions, making the worst mistakes of their lives....The truth is that infidelity doesn't necessarily develop out of a bankrupt system of moral values. Instead, personal values change to accomodate the affair. Many people who have always beleived in being faithful in marriage find that their values do not protect them when they are faced with the temptation of an affair. It became clear to me early in my counseling experience that affairs were much more common than I had evere imagined. But now, after years of marriage counseling, I have come to realize that ALMOST everyone, given the right conditions, would have an affair."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I think it's very black and white. If you aren't happy get a divorce Very simple.LOL With divorce so easy it makes no sense to have an affair. Unless you are a cakeman who wants to have a little wifey at home and a piece on the side.

It's just not logical to have an affair LIfe is complicated enough w/o all the lying and sneaking around and stuff that goes with the whole affair thing. And for me personally there is nothing that I desperately need from another person including my H. I just don't really agree with whole emotional needs things because I see them as wants not something that's essential for survival.

just reading and found this to be a very interesting topic since just last night had this discussion with my WH. we are not even in 2 weeks of NC and the thing that bothers him most is why did this happen. He always said throughout this A he loved me, never said he wasn't "in love" with me, can't think of any reason why this happened. He just wants to know why. His biggest fear right now is that he won't be able to follow through with what he wants to do ,that is work on our M ,he doesn't want to hurt me again.We already had one false recovery the past 4 months when he was still in contact. Any input or suggestions on how to help ,he is feeling the effects of withdrawal which I know from all the reading,still,its hard to handle. I don't want him to slip back completely into the FOG.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TMD:

"I just don't really agree with whole emotional needs things because I see them as wants not something that's essential for survival."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok try to go live in the woods by yourself, cut off from the rest of humanity. If you have enough food and water then all your needs should be fully met for life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> Here's an excerpt from Dr Willard Harley's 'Surviving An Affair' (page 16):

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"With all of the sadness and suffering, why do so many people have an affair? The answer is that, for the moment, it seems the right thing to do. Men and women are easily carried away by their emotions, making the worst mistakes of their lives....The truth is that infidelity doesn't necessarily develop out of a bankrupt system of moral values. Instead, personal values change to accomodate the affair. Many people who have always beleived in being faithful in marriage find that their values do not protect them when they are faced with the temptation of an affair. It became clear to me early in my counseling experience that affairs were much more common than I had evere imagined. But now, after years of marriage counseling, I have come to realize that ALMOST everyone, given the right conditions, would have an affair."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WFLOWER;
Being in the right (or wrong) conditions, that is where the tables will turn. So, you need to be aware, and you need to protect your marriage.

When you will foresee a thing, due to feelings, and get an apprehensive nature in response to situations that are so conducive to affairs, then you will be ok, safe, and not get into one.

When you will take all of that energy that you have that has desire, and need, and you will attend to your own spouse, whom you promised to do this with when you were married, Then you will have thwarted the sinister affair. (and all of the unpalatable aftermath of one, yuck!)

I beleive that it was BryanP who said that everytime he finds himself in a potentially dangerous situation with a member of the opposite sex, he asks himself "Would it be ok with me if my fiancee found herself in a similar situation with another man?" and if his answer is no, then he backs away from it. I think that this is a good way to check if there is a dangerous boundary that is about to be crossed and thus avoid doing so.

TMD

"I just don't really agree with whole
emotional needs things because I see them as wants not something that's essential for survival."

Well girl that is what I mean by Selfish It also comes down to doing the "caring" helping others, it makes us feel good about ourself.So the BIG A starts then we think the love thing is there, forgetting we left someone else that we loved.

There is no other way to say it. It is all in the mind and we have the choice to be selfish or not. We can use every excuse out there to call it love, but our minds aren't even prepared for love during an A. It is a "feeling" Selfish that this is better than what I am getting at home. This must be love.

As OW/WW you could not have convinced me I wasn't in love during, and awhile after the A ended. I would talk with this MM and it seemed we had all the right ingredients, but it is a feeling of being needed and appreciated that made me think I loved this person. Again, it wasn't met by my spouse, so I questioned if I loved him. Oh, then I must get my needs met and OP was there.

What kind of monster do we create during an A? One that gives us nightmares? The nightmare would only get worse if the 2 people in the A ended their marriages. Mine ended, and I have to live with that selfish monster that came out of me.

Please all of you in an A or ending one, thank your lucky stars if your spouse took you back. The "new" or OP was an exciting "addiction" as it is mentioned by many. It felt like love.

I for one have come to realize that, and feel good about myself and will move on whatever the future holds. We should all stop rationalizing and start realizing it was a mistake the biggest one in our lives, NOT LOVE.

Have a good evening all. I plan to.

Yourstruly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

TMD

"I just don't really agree with whole
emotional needs things because I see them as wants not something that's essential for survival."

Well girl that is what I mean by Selfish It also comes down to doing the "caring" helping others, it makes us feel good about ourself.So the BIG A starts then we think the love thing is there, forgetting we left someone else that we loved.

There is no other way to say it. It is all in the mind and we have the choice to be selfish or not. We can use every excuse out there to call it love, but our minds aren't even prepared for love during an A. It is a "feeling" Selfish that this is better than what I am getting at home. This must be love.

As OW/WW you could not have convinced me I wasn't in love during, and awhile after the A ended. I would talk with this MM and it seemed we had all the right ingredients, but it is a feeling of being needed and appreciated that made me think I loved this person. Again, it wasn't met by my spouse, so I questioned if I loved him. Oh, then I must get my needs met and OP was there.

What kind of monster do we create during an A? One that gives us nightmares? The nightmare would only get worse if the 2 people in the A ended their marriages. Mine ended, and I have to live with that selfish monster that came out of me.

Please all of you in an A or ending one, thank your lucky stars if your spouse took you back. The "new" or OP was an exciting "addiction" as it is mentioned by many. It felt like love.

I for one have come to realize that, and feel good about myself and will move on whatever the future holds. We should all stop rationalizing and start realizing it was a mistake the biggest one in our lives, NOT LOVE.

Have a good evening all. I plan to.

Yourstruly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

WFLOWER,

What you've stated about integrity is painfully obvious to an FWS.

Please refer to what TMCM posted from the Harley book earlier...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The truth is that infidelity doesn't necessarily develop out of a bankrupt system of moral values. Instead, personal values change to accomodate the affair. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We get drawn into the idea of the affair by allowing our value system (aka our integrity) to bend. The Harley theory is that our unmet needs weaken the infrastructure needed to keep this from happening.

It's in this theory that we find hope for recovery. If my wife and I can meet each other's needs than we will hold our marriage in high regard and will be motivated to protect it.

To imply a fundamental lack of integrity means that I should've just thrown my hands up and walked out because I'd never be able to have a good marriage anyway. It implies hopelessness. The Harley's gave me hope that I - we - could recover.

Low

Thanks Yours. Very well said. I am a BS and it helps to see or read the Other side.
I am a Christian, believe in the bible. And I can truthfully say this not only from observations in life but according to bible teachings.
NO Adulterous A will ever be blessed! God is not going to allow them happiness after causing so much pain and breaking their vows.
Just my opinion. I understand not all believe thus.
Thanks for you honesty and openess. LouLou

Hi NewBranch,

Make no mistake, I also believe in the bible and God. My observation in life also shows me there is a God. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Everyday I see that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yourstruly1999

YoursTruly, I really like the things you're saying. You seem to have made great strides in understanding yourself and what happened to you in the course of your affair. I'm really glad to hear that.

Having said all that, I do have a couple of questions:

- Where are you, in terms of relationships, right now?

- Where is your XH, in terms of relationships, right now?

- Do you have kids?

- Having understood that your affair was selfish and hurt a lot of people, have you made amends for those hurts? What have you done so far?

Just J

I believe A's are basically the same for everyone, although we would like to think ours is different. Same reasons.. Selfish with same outcome Hurt .

I am not in a relationship now, my XH is in a relationship, and yes I have grown children.

I am working on making amends to those that were hurt. I have a lot of work still in that area.

By the way, I like your motto.