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Recent post have been removed from this thread. Please do not restart that discussion.

Posters are welcome to post for help with their marriages, but not to challenge Dr Harley or any contributor who gives his advice.

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Originally Posted By: BrainHurts

Have you read this?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Ariel,

Apologies.

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BrainHurts,

Yes I am aware of the article and if you like inherited the Plan C, but I will do all in my power to make a bad situation into a not-so-bad situation..

Unfortunately I see little except the concept of the love bank to aid me in a kind of Plan A which I am actively pursuing, no arguments or conflict just a man trying his upmost to show his WW she has made the biggest mistake of her life in choosing to leave the marriage. I will win her back I won't allow an opportunistic POS ruin two families, watch this space.

Thanks.

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Hello All,

I think I pushed too far with WW tonight. WW picked up the boys from me and she mentioned that she wasn't feeling well enough to take the boys to the pictures as promised but would on Sunday, I took all this on board and remained civil whilst we said our goodbyes.

Later I text her "I was so close in asking whether I could come to the pictures with you tonight lol I hope you have a good time with the boys and hope you feel better soon" about two hours later she replied with a text saying "was an unacceptable text" that's it.

Did I pursue her too much? I feel I won't try this again but really didn't think much of what I sent to be objectable!

Do you feel I withdrew all of the good deposits I recently was able to do in my situation and why did she react that way..?

I feel what I did made her feel guilty which in turn made her unhappy with me, not a good move!

Thanks.

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Mark_P ,

What is preventing you from moving Back to your home and implementing your Plan A there instead of from afar?? A Plan A while separated has very little chance of success. Hence, no surprise she rejected your offer to the movies - she doesn't feel you care. Also, it's very hard to believe that she didn't react to your exposure,

Tom

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Hello Tom,

As mentioned many times I don't take lightly the action of leaving my family and family home and this should give some indication what WE were going through with her attitude towards us.

Returning would be a kamikazi move for the marriage. I would not only withdraw from her love bank I'd blow it up!

"Doesn't feel I care" < this OR guilty I have shown in the text how much I care and continue to be invested in her so don't think she feels this way. More likely she can't be seen to do anything against her AP but when the masks come off that could change.

I'm in this situation and need to find solutions that work.
Staying happy and confident in her presence.
NEVER arguing.
Getting out and about to keep my sanity.
And work on myself and what I feel I did to get us to this point.

Initially I mentioned in my posts that exposure was completed early in my situation months BEFORE I came to these boards so when I did expose again it was old news and wasn't expecting much in a way of a reaction.

"Little chance of success" thanks for the reassurance. Luckily I'm stronger than that and will politely ignore your comment and continue to stand for my marriage.

I'll keep journaling each day as there my be some snippets other can take away from my situation and either use or discard.

Please remember Dr Harley suggest the man move out under certain circumstances rest assured my situation falls under these circumstances.

Regards.

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Have you written Dr. Harley?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Hi BrainHurts,

Could you point me in the right direction..?

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Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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BrainHurts,

I'll compose and send.

Thanks.

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Hey Mark,

I only have a moment here but plan to read your thread over tonight and respond. I recognize your story from another forum and I'm so glad you've left there. 25years and Sandi2 have led more betrayed men astray over there then I care to mention. I don't think you had a single recovered marriage poster respond to you over there. They are completely oblivious to the absolute failure the divorce busting idea of detaching and waiting is to betrayed men (sometimes it works for women because it's like Plan B here but it never works for guys).

You were instinctively bucking their system and insisting on taking action. The fact they were criticizing you is a compliment. It's too bad you weren't here last January when a solid plan a would have had more impact but it's never too late.


I'll be back.

I haven't posted in a bit but a friend asked me to look into your story.

I'm still happily recovered now - 12+ years --- wow.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Hi MrWondering,

I appreciate you popping by its refreshing to hear of success I congratulate you.

You are quite right I POSSIBLY made the wrong choice initially when researching the subject and decided to gain knowledge from DB!

Their principles are very counter-intuitive I received major 2x4s due to this that said some of the advice I got from those you mention especially how a WW sees her H was almost identical to what I was and continue to experience in my situation, Mr. Nice Guy syndrome is a particular sticking point for me.

If you have read through my posts on their forum youll see I just couldnt comply with the advice as I felt it was just forcing us further and further apart instead of bringing us back together. I was hit with the fact that trying to be her friend would lead to cake-eating and would only escalate or extend the A indefinitely and in fact at one point was asked why settle for something anybody can be for your W namely a friend! MB would suggest build up the LB (love bank) by doing exactly this and to me makes more sense after all this is how the AP gained her attention

Im at a loss now though as I seem to be in a rigid Plan C although sticking to the principles of a Plan A, as your aware very early I had no choice but to leave the family home which in essence drove me towards Plan B but with continued contact due to family commitments I just cant get around. < I feel this will get me MORE 2x4s from this forum!

To be brutally honest as much as I want to apply the strategys and am trying my very best Im getting to the point where Im pinning all my hopes on the A petering out but at least being her friend and safe place will help IF this happens allowing reconciliation more likely than her falling back in limerence with another!

As with all on any forum (MB, DB or whatever) Im looking for that magic formula and would love your input and those of the forum especially in my unique situation, I will continue the fight be happy and confident in her presence and NEVER argue as this is all I can do.

Im in it for the long haul and will look at where my M fell down by MY actions and work on them whilst trying to comply with the Plan A approach of MB, wish me luck

Thanks again.

Mark.

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Originally Posted By: Mark_P
BrainHurts,

I'll compose and send.

Thanks.

Did you write Dr. Harely? Have you heard back?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: Mark_P

You are quite right I POSSIBLY made the wrong choice initially when researching the subject and decided to gain knowledge from DB!


The fact you waited from DDAY to June to even seek outside knowledge tells me you POSSIBLY have relied way too much on your own intuition and "plan conflict avoidance" wayyyyyyy too long. It doesn't really surprise me that you choose DB as the system to undertake as it's the least aggressive and easiest to do. They just advise you wait it out and endure the affair (almost as though your spouse has the right to have it) while you detach more and more until, hopefully, you get over her before the eventual divorce. The resistance you received is you still wanted to affect the outcome and passive-aggressively exert influence over the situation. I submit your instincts were correct but your techniques of such PA exertion need refinement.

Another thing DB has done has taught you that forums aren't necessarily correct so hopefully your experience there won't make you hesitant or resistant to what I have to say.


Quote:
Their principles are very counter-intuitive I received major 2x4s due to this that said some of the advice I got from those you mention especially how a WW sees her H was almost identical to what I was and continue to experience in my situation, Mr. Nice Guy syndrome is a particular sticking point for me.


All the "Mr. Nice Guy" stuff is such pop pyschology bullcrap. You should know the guy that wrote that (Dr. Glover) had an affair on his first wife, tried to recover, went back to his "soulmate" affair partner and had the epipheny to write that book basically rationalizing and justifying his affairs and divorce (he only married wife #1 because he was supposedly a passive aggressive 'nice guy' - if only he'd been more authentic he wouldn't have ever married her and made that mistake). He then married his soulmate office co-worker and even dedicated his book to her only to divorce her a couple years later again discovering that he'd not really become an authentic man.

Being a nice guy really is ok. Jesus was a pretty nice guy himself.




Quote:
To be brutally honest as much as I want to apply the strategys and am trying my very best Im getting to the point where Im pinning all my hopes on the A petering out but at least being her friend and safe place will help IF this happens allowing reconciliation more likely than her falling back in limerence with another!

As with all on any forum (MB, DB or whatever) Im looking for that magic formula and would love your input and those of the forum especially in my unique situation, I will continue the fight be happy and confident in her presence and NEVER argue as this is all I can do.


A couple questions:

1. Are you particularly religious?

2. Tell me about OM? His marriage status, his wife, his friends, his work and the work that involves your wife, his parents and extended family. What are his weak points?


You say you "at least want to be her friend" but, as difficult as it may be to do, a friend doesn't stand by you just watching you make the biggest mistake of your life. If you kid were 20 years old and smoking crack you wouldn't just continue being their friend and waiting for them to outgrow it. Affairs are kind of the same thing. Your wife is making the biggest mistake of her life and it's very similar to an addiction in that she not very likely to just up and quit someday on her very own. Sure affairs usually end after a couple years but that ending is usually abrupt, precipitated by crisis and the relationship, absent any foundational basis in reality, disintegrates from within. Crack addicts and other drug addicts often get tolerated and appeased for a while by family and friends until they've had enough of them and their behavior and either withdrawal and/or confront (an intervention). When the pain and consequences of continuing the addiction outweigh the benefits of the addiction (the escape - the high) then the addict quits. Plan appeasement provides the addicted wayward spouse a slow fall down into the abyss. The pain and consequences never, on any individual day, cause them near enough to outweigh the uninterrupted and unfettered benefits of the affair.

So while I agree it's pointless to "argue" with a wayward (just as it'd be pointless to argue logically with a crack addict), I think you are confusing arguing with a fear of angering your wayward wife. Any addict/sinner/wayward confronted, even lovingly, over their behavior is going to get an be angry. Afterall, you are interfering with their primary relationship (with the drug of choice or affair partner). No addict thinks long term. The wayward is just like the crack addict and simply worried about the next fix. They often conceive of and want to quit SOMEDAY as they know there is no future in it, but that day will hardly ever come if everyone in their life made continuing TODAY and the NEXT DAY easy.

Basically - you are coming here saying you love your wife, despite her sins and your biblical right to divorce her over her sins and want a plan to save your marriage. Plan A is such a plan. (and if you aren't in Plan B, you're in Plan A as there is no Plan C). Plan A is not the healthiest plan for a betrayed husband. It's hurtful. It drains your remaining love bank for your wife faster than sitting around waiting but it IS proactive and it WILL give you a better chance to either save your marriage OR give you satisfaction that you gave your wife and family it's best shot should you fail and end up "successfully" divorce (a successful divorce is one where you're content with your actions and able to move on without overwhelming bitterness, anger and hatred).

The successful MB men I've seen here and in real life over the years have basically competed with the OM and won their wives back. They've interfered and interrupted the affair to the largest extent they could at any given time without throwing temper tantrums. They exhibited righteous indignation and upset without losing control of their faculties and behaving counter-productively.

You are your wife's husband today. You are tasked with cherishing her and protecting her until your death or until she divorces you and releases you from that covenant with God. As such, you don't sit around being her friend while she destroys herself and your family. You can't beat her over the head and/or tie her up so you've got to be strategic and apply some (or a lot of) game theory to your situation but in the end, you'll win or lose knowing you did your best by her and your kids.

I've got to run again. But I recall reading one post by you on DB where you indicated the your wife was over at your place with the kids and ignored a call from the other man. My thought was that's great. You know OM considers you the greatest threat to his relationship with your wife. You have the upper hand. You have children with the woman and will always have a connection to her. The reason I asked the question above "tell me about OM?" is because I find that often in these situations the easiest person to "attack" covertly is the OM. I don't know the percentage but I'd guess that 80% of the time that these stupid illicit assoulmate type affairs actually come to an end is when the other man ends it. The OM in your situation is/was married with kids. Your wife was his target because she was one of a limited number of women in his vicinity willing to interact, flirt and eventually have a relationship (date/sex) with a married man with kids. Now that his marriage is disintegrating or over - and his relationship with your wife is more real, more costly, more headaches (he has to meet more of her needs) and involves kids that will never respect him and YOU an annoying husband that soon won't go away and leave him alone, suddenly OTHER women - particularly other women with fewer complications become more attractive to him and he ends up cheating on your wife or just dumping her and moving on.

The first rule of recovery is NO CONTACT. It doesn't matter one bit how or why the affair ends just like it doesn't matter how or why the addict stops smoking crack. All that matters to rebuilding relationships is that they do it.

Your wife WILL get angry from time to time over your interference, but your marriage can survive her anger; and, if and when you recover she will never forget how hard and resolutely you fought for her and cherished her (more than any other person will for the rest of her life). *

*contrast that to plan detachment which basically communicates you don't love and cherish her and confirms her belief that you never did.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Hi BrainHurts,

Yes did write to Joyce Harley but as of yet have had no response...

Regards.

Mark.

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Hello MrW,

I see myself not as a blinkered person; Im always researching and instinctively using or dropping methods or concepts mainly if I feel its counter-intuitive. The detaching and no contact for me are two areas I feel are counter-intuitive and drive a wedge between both parties.

All the "Mr. Nice Guy" stuff is such pop psychology bullcrap. < As Im led to believe there are no guarantees with ANY strategy, I must admit some of the learnings I got from Dr Glovers thesis can be related to me and I will always use whats useful

Being a nice guy really is ok. Jesus was a pretty nice guy himself. Im not religious and understand where youre coming from BUT again not to the detriment of the guy! A WW is so disrespectful towards her doormat of a husband a balance needs to be found allowing equal respect not the husband putting his WW on a pedestal and allowing her to call the shots, eventually she will see him as being below her and justifies her right to look for a better partner who will stick up for himself.

Do you feel WWs are respectful of their BHs..?

You ask me about the OM, Im not interested in him he doesnt exist in my mind. He is married his wife knows about the affair, they have two children both under the age of 5 and he has moved out of the family home and into mine although not officially as officially he lives with his parents

My WW is a safety manager at the same company as him where he is a quality assurance person!!!

Exposure has been sent to their place of work his and BWs family and all friends.

What are his weak points? The point of his jaw if we were to come into contact. I dont know him and have not even spared a second of my time thinking about him.

MrW what I do know is I cant control my WW what she continues to do is hers and her decision alone, how can you affect their feelings for their soul mate? There is NOTHING I can do except show her shes made a mistake by letting me back on the market and being the best Mark and husband/father I can be, this is where I am at the moment.

MrW do you think my WW visiting our boys almost every night is making AP feel vulnerable? Do you feel when AP visits his children WW doesnt feel vulnerable? Would this not sow that seed in them or are they STILL infatuated
From time to time I do get the feeling that AP wonders why WW has taken so long at my place visiting the boys and I do feel shes being controlled by him; Ill give you an example.
A while ago my WW and I were having a longer than usual civil conversation when her phone goes, she looks at whose calling and within a millisecond shes saying her goodbyes I could be mind-reading but dont think so.

Again we had a conversation about the boys and WW going to the pictures and WW complaining she couldnt go due to a bad back, this was great for me as I deposited credits by saying to her that she needed to look after herself a bit better and understood why she cancelled the first date to take the boys pictures.
We continued to talk civilly and I helped her with the boys stuff to the car, later I sent her a text I was so tempted to ask if I could go pictures too lol. Hope you have a good time with them and you feel better soon in response to that text I got this Not an acceptable text thats it! The text just didnt seem like WW, was this AP talking..? Again mind-reading will be my downfall

Initially when the A started I did get in her face (being overly attentive) this just pushed her further away and towards him! Doing the same now would apply guilt which again would bring them together us verses the world mentality. I will continue to be the better and do all I can to deposit credit and definitely not withdrawal by being argumentative or angry.

What else can I do?

Thanks for your support I need all the help I can get.

Mark.

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Originally Posted By: Mark_P
Hi BrainHurts,

Yes did write to Joyce Harley but as of yet have had no response...

Regards.

Mark.

You might want to try again if it has been a couple of days, because sometimes emails don't get through and if you find that happening notify the MODS and they can contact the Harelys for you.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: Mark_P
Exposure has been sent to their place of work his and BWs family and all friends.


Did you expose to anyone else on OM's side besides his work and BW? Did you contact his parents,siblings, family?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Hi BH,

I will try again with the email to the Harleys, sent letters to all his family and his sister as well as his wife.

That's to their home addresses. I really don't want a relationship with these people I just now want to concentrate on my boys and I, the letters outlined quite clearly what is happening and how I'm standing for my M.

Thanks again.

M

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