I mean....Dr H could explain the exact psychology of it, but its like Waywards get very immediate all of a sudden. Like, if it's not happening right now it doesn't exist. If I don't have my wife and kids right in front of me, they don't exist. If my credit card doesn't immediately decline on the first spending spree, I have lots of money.

. It's really annoying but at least it's predictable.



I mean, your mileage may vary, but I simply wouldn't have the spare spoons of social energy to entertain enabling nitwits. Unless they have something to offer?

As for taking them through a crash course of 'how to spot a jerk, by watching his feet not his lips' I wouldn't bother. Just find whatever combination of words gets them out of your hair quickest:

"Oh! I wasnt expecting company. Im afraid I cant accompany you/visit with you/allow you in with me. I really recommend the local museum."
"OC isn't having any visitors at present. Gifts and cards can be left at the nurses station. Hope you enjoy (city)".

Or make them useful?
"Hey I have to dash to make a phone call. This is OCs favourite book, if you wouldn't mind reading it to him. Thanks!"
"Oh thank goodness, family support! I haven't had a minute to go anywhere as he won't let me out of his sight. I don't suppose you could run us some errands could you? That's why you came, right?"

On hearing how caring WH is:
"You dont say! That is super weird, he might want to look into paying his medical bills so his actions and feelings aren't quite so many miles apart"
"I am divorcing WH so I dont have to talk about WH. Ever. Again."
"The way this is going to go is you're going to go away/have a nice visit with OC and not try to explain WH to me as though im some kind of idiot who doesn't know who she was married to. Can we proceed on that basis?"

Or, you know, just call security.

Yes - that's so true! It's like if the consequences don't hit right that second, they feel like they have got away with it. If he doesn't feel the negatives of not paying maintenance RIGHT NOW, then there's no reason to respect a court order. And when the consequences do eventually catch up with him, he will somehow explain it as me agressing him or taking revenge or something else which paints me as a bad guy.


I have done a pretty good job of avoiding most of them for months, but I still struggle to know how to handle it when they are actually in my face. Although I don't want to lend support to WH's badmouthing of me by being downright rude, I definitely do not want to engage in any more of those thankless conversations that used to ruin my plan B at the beginning where i keep on having to explain over and over again that it doesn't matter how many times WH SAYS he wants his family or that he is sorry, you can tell that he isn't because he is living a single life 4000 kms away while I am alone with four kids. I love your suggestions for what to say!!! I will try all of those!!

I had a plan B break yesterday. I just couldn't stomach WH's lies to the kids on skype pretending that he cared about OC's operation - having just cut our medical insurance, not paid maintenance, and decided he is not coming to visit the kids at the end of the month (our baby's second birthday) which he had told them last time he came that he would. So I told him his behaviour was disgusting, that he must stop lying to the children, and then I hung up for them. I explained to the children that there is a big difference between what Papa says and what he does, and that he has refused to send money which I use to buy food and pay for their activities and school stuff. And that even though the judge told him to pay for our medical expenses, he has now cut our medical insurance so that I had to borrow money from the bank to pay for OC's operation. I think I stuck to the facts and that it was an important teaching point for the kids. But this fight against WH's "alternative facts" is exhausting. Was I wrong to address it? Should I just ignore him telling the kids lies in future? I just don't know what is the right way to deal with this stuff. I think the kids will see it in the end, when they are grown up, but they are still so small and I need to teach them about what it means to be a person with integrity who is trustworthy and reliable.

I assume this happened when your children were talking to him on the phone or via skype. Do you set it up, leave the room and htve your children press the button or do you wait for the connection and then leave the room (do you hear his voice/see his image at any moment)? Did you hear from your IM he wouldn't be coming or did he communicate it skyping with the kids?

Hi Goody2Shoes, I set it up (log out of my skype account and into the kids' skype account) about 10 mins before the time he is supposed to call (he calls at 19:30 every day) and then leave it. He calls and the kids answer themselves. Since I got suspended from work, we only have one family computer. It is set up in a hallway/office space downstairs. I don't see his image at all, but if I am in the kitchen I can hear bits of what he is saying sometimes. Usually I don't pay any attention, so it doesn't normally bother or trigger me. But since OC's operation, he has been shouting for OC to come and talk to him. OC doesn't usually want to talk to him because it is quite obvious that WH uses a different and much harsher tone of voice with OC thn he does with the other kids. OC predictably responds to that by not wanting to talk. He says the computer makes him feel bad. So while I normally don't pay any attention when the kids are chatting to him, the shouting was difficult to ignore - and then he came out with all this rubbish wanting to do prayers with OC and telling him how much he missed him and wished he was there for his operation . If he "wished" he was there, why wasn't he actually there?!

The kids told me he said he wasn't coming. Then they said he was coming in June instead. He is not supposed to communicate this stuff via the kids. We go through lawyers. He was supposed to submit an annual schedule of visits in January. Of course he didn't do that. But since he did not make any arrangements, I have planned things for the kids in June which is when they break up from school. They are going to a summer school during the first two weeks, I have booked a few days away in the middle of the month and they have karate training for a competition during the weekends. So now I know he will just turn up again and will try to get me arrested AGAIN because he has not made the necessary arrangements to see the children.

I think it would have been better to do nothing until the effects of breaking your Plan B wore off, because you'll make better decisions when you're calm. You're describing taking action from a position of feeling helpless, and that's not going to work out well.

How about buying a tablet for them to skype in another room?

When you're a single parent, I think the most important thing you can do for your children is make sure you show them you love them. There's a lot that their wayward ex-parent is going to do that is out of your control and their control. You can show them by example how to build a happy life despite the insanity. I think trying to debate every crazy point the nutjob makes is doomed to failure and is just going to drive you nuts and then your kids don't have any healthy parents.

While this is definitely not how you do Plan B....



I can't help but

I don't think you did or said anything wrong. And just like exposure, facts dont hurt kids. I would have loved to have seen the look on his face! But yeah..that can't happen again.

It's not really what you did, it's more how you feel. You sound really besieged, which is not surprising given you just hosted Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. Lately you sound like you think your plan is a disaster and your role unsuccessful aka 'bad guy' when truthfully you've been a complete rockstar and given your kids stability and happiness. Own that. Who gives a hoot if Tweedledee and Tweedledum agree.

Find a way to close up gaps. Non supporters not allowed in Plan B. WHs voice is not allowed in Plan B (I think this is even more important now given youve told him you have a pushable button. So he's definitely going to try pushing it. He'll withold money and lie anyway but he'll exaggerate it for your attention if he suspects you're overhearing) Don't worry about his lying to the kids, you've already exposed him for who he is. Expect him to fail where money is concerned and work out something with your lawyer where that prediction is worth something to you.

Hi Indie,

Thanks a lot for being so supportive. I don't think my plan is a disaster. I can see how MB has enabled me to totally take control of a terrible situation and bring myself and the kids to a new life where we are really happy, stable and protected from all WH's rubbish. I think the thing that gets me down is feeling like WH's bad choices in life don't seem to be causing him any problems at all - and that hurts my sense of justice. How can there be so many evil people in the world that don't seem to experience any negative consequences to their behaviour? I know God works to his own timetable, but it does feel like I have spent the past year and a half fighting battle after battle against evil, and they keep on coming. Why am i having to fight so much while life seems much easier for others?

I think Goody's suggestion of a tablet in another room is great (why didn't i think of that?!!?!). Yes, I will edit his voice out of my life totally!!

It may seem like that at 3am but not in the cold light of day. He is incredibly angry with you. You have robbed him of the pretense (to himself as well as to the world) that he is a wonderful person. You have exposed him as an abusive man who does not care about his children and was ready to kill his wife. Everything about him is a sham.


Your employers are terrified of you. You have put their livelihood and perhaps liberty in jeopardy. They have their backs to the wall. To make matters worse, they can find no dirt to pin on you in return. That puts you in an incredibly strong position. Just keep the faith.


They do experience negative consequences. You are not seeing it now but I am betting none of those people sleep well at night.

Thank you so much Living Well. This are exactly the words I needed to read right now. Thank you. WH has been sending abusive messages to my sister claiming that I "used" him for 10 years and that I have stolen his youth.

Justice will come to him, but in the meantime the most important thing is for you to recover and be healthy for your children.

rotfl, that's ridiculous.

If your sister is not your IM she may need to stop letting him contact her if this crap is driving her nuts. If she is your IM she needs to quit passing it through to you. Even if she's not your IM she needs to stop passing it through to you.

Thanks Markos! It is totally ridiculous - but that's what made me think that real life hasn't affected his crazy distorted view of the world. And that's why I started to feel that he isn't experiencing the negatives of his terrible choices because surely he would not still be so crazy if he was?!! My sister is my IM, but I think she probably forgot she wasn't supposed to be passing on info - and she probably thought it might make me laugh. She hasn't had any contact with him for months. We have been doing fine going through lawyers for everything. But it is a good time for a reminder because this stuff obviously affects me even though my life is much nicer now!!

Thanks for this perfect suggestion Goody! I will do that. Now feeling a bit silly for not thinking of that myself.....

Thanks a lot Markos. I missed this post yesterday. You're totally right. I know from my own childhood that the thing I remember the most is my mum being incoherant with rage against my alcoholic father and always struggling to cope - and that affected us as children far more than the fact that my father drank all the time. It seems so unfair on her that that is the case. But it is. So I recognise that the most important thing I can do for my children is to be happy and stable and loving. And I can only do that consistently if I don't hear any of WH's crazy. I guess i sometimes worry that he is so charming and persuasive that he will give them a completely different version of events and they will believe him. But if I can show them the truth with my behaviour rather than trying to aruge my case with words, I suppose they will always know deep down what really happened.

You should not know that!

But awwwwww diddums. Is someone feeling a little bit blue that they can't have free cake anymore? And that he didn't secure his romantic life into old age? Here you go, WH. Here's the world's tiniest violin....

As for evil people experiencing consequences ...who....cares?

I mean, we could watch and wait as they grow increasingly bolder without consequence, which of course leads to consequences/shame/behaviour modification from the learning experience..but does anyone have time for that?

Unless it's your kid or a rescuable loved one; just close the doors and windows and live your life without the drama.

I know you're in the thick of it now, so that seems like useless advice, but you're working on the shedding process right now. We're not trying to teach them consequences were just trying to get them OFF YOUR BACK.

And that's doable.

A lot of people think the way to cope is to be really really tough.

It's not - the real way to cope is to shut out the haters who keep injuring you in life. Then you will thrive!

I am experiencing something I wasn't prepared for, now that I am a single mum of four: I feel as though I get an uncomfortable amount/type of attention from other people's husbands, many of whom I have known for ages, that I definitely did not get when I was physically living with WH. This single-mum effect is making me question how I should interact with people in general, and making me wonder whether the safest thing is just to stay at home and not talk to anyone. What really gets to me is the way men suddenly seem to want to demonstrate extraordinary care towards me with small thoughtful gestures or wanting to spend time with me, which are the same kind of things I know WH does to other women all the time, which leads them to fall in love with him. These small actions seem innoccuous, it's not as if anyone is trying to get me into bed or anything, but I can feel the impropriety of the attention. I tried mentionning it to a friend of mine (the wife of one of the husbands - he chose to stay in my house for four days, sitting with me and the kids every evening, eating dinner drinking wine and watching TV with me, while waiting for a visa application to be finalised rather than getting a B+B or just going home (5 hours drive)) but basically she told me I was over-sensitive and that of course I am her husband's friend and that it is totally normal for him to stay with me. The whole thing has left me quite confused. I don't want to alienate all my friends (I wouldn't refuse a request for someone to stay in my spare room when there was no good reason to), I don't want to be a hermit, and I have high boundaries so I trust myself not to be giving confusing signals, I still wear my wedding ring, but I think just the fact that I do not have a husband in my home is a signal in itself. I do not have male friends, I do not call any men unless for work or professional reasons, I do not communicate directly with the husbands of friends of mine unless we all happen to physically be together in a group, and I make an effort to move away and talk to women if I find someone keeps coming over to chat to me, but I somehow still feel that I keep on finding myself in situations that do not feel totally right. Am I being too suspicious of other people's husbands because of WH's behaviour?